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Having trouble with L4 missions please help

Author
#1 - 2017-01-01 18:14:13 UTC
iv almost died bout 3 times now just to taking too much damage i make sure not to agro when i can and i follow eve survival for ever mission but for some reason im still taking alot of damage i even started to fit dobble hardeners on my ship for certain resistances instead of fiting 3 heat sinks. the rigs are there just to keep me kinda cap stable... please help me this is my first bs and i dont wanna lose it. i run my missions out of vittenyn VI..

[Apocalypse, Apocalypse]
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Reactive Armor Hardener
Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Extruded Compact Heat Sink
Extruded Compact Heat Sink
Prototype Armor Thermal Hardener I

F-12 Enduring Tracking Computer
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5
Acolyte II x5

Microwave L x8
Infrared L x8
Xray L x8
Multifrequency L x8
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Radio L x16
optimal range script x1


ps: i cant find good forms on apocalypse for pve t1
#2 - 2017-01-01 18:23:41 UTC
Perhaps you are trying too soon to get into a BS? May need to wait a bit until you have the SPs to improve your modules.
Getting into battleships before they are "ready" is one of the most common mistakes in EVE. That being said, I'm sure that a player will be by shortly with an improvement on your fit.

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.

Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-01-01 18:44:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuttomenui II
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports Know your enemy, manage aggro where possible.

One option is to swap the cap battery and tracking computer for cap rechargers fit a second repper in place of one of the heat sinks replace the other heatsink with a capacitor power relay . It is entry lvl to go for survivability instead of DPS.

Another option is to do the first and replace the ab with a large micro jump drive, and replace the weapons for long range instead of short range. use the LMJD to jump 100km away and snipe. Consider using a cap booster as well instead of using cap rechargers and power relays.

Once you have confidence you can start reducing your tank and increasing your dps, go from pure tank towards a dps tank. The faster you can kill the enemy the sooner you can reduce incoming dps.

Work on increasing your skills for reppers and tank so you can t2 fit, maybe get a navy repper and use it along side a t1/t2 repper as skills permit.

Keep in mind a t1 fit BS can have a hard time killing some named rats in missions. You may need to get a buddy in a BS and gang up on the missions.
#4 - 2017-01-01 20:39:38 UTC
looks like your skills are just too low. no t2 repper, heatsinks, AB, tracking comp, or cap recharger. You might have enough SP to sit in a bs and complete some missions, but it is going to be slow and risky. Probably better to drop down to level 3s and make sure you are real comfortable there and train up some skills.

I haven't played with the apoc in a while so I'm not sure what can be changed. I typically like to fit for as much damage and application as possible dropping all cap mods in favor of a cap booster and fueling all my cap needs with that. However the t1 amarr boats are very cap hungry so fitting a bunch of cap mods to be able to run the tank and guns makes sense. My gank style fitting works a lot better with the advanced laser ships like the paladin and nightmare.

Aside from meta level your fit looks fine, a rep, 3/4 hardeners and 2/3 heatsinks is a pretty standard choice for lows. Cap mods, tracking mods, prop mod all standard for the mids. Of course guns in the highs, apoc makes megapulse work very well with the optimal bonus it gets. I think there may be some case for megabeams as at longer ranges they will out damage t1 pulse. but most people go with pulse. Also pulse get much better with t2 ammo thanks to scorch.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Out of Sight.
#5 - 2017-01-02 00:22:48 UTC
between t1 and t2 there is a huge difference, also same thing can be said about ship skills...

It's not like if u can sit in it u can fly well, and once u have better skills the improvement is marginal.
U need atleast 4 in all skills across board for the ship items and weapons, and some t2 variants would help greatly

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.

#6 - 2017-01-02 00:28:49 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
looks like your skills are just too low. no t2 repper, heatsinks, AB, tracking comp, or cap recharger. You might have enough SP to sit in a bs and complete some missions, but it is going to be slow and risky. Probably better to drop down to level 3s and make sure you are real comfortable there and train up some skills.

I haven't played with the apoc in a while so I'm not sure what can be changed. I typically like to fit for as much damage and application as possible dropping all cap mods in favor of a cap booster and fueling all my cap needs with that. However the t1 amarr boats are very cap hungry so fitting a bunch of cap mods to be able to run the tank and guns makes sense. My gank style fitting works a lot better with the advanced laser ships like the paladin and nightmare.

Aside from meta level your fit looks fine, a rep, 3/4 hardeners and 2/3 heatsinks is a pretty standard choice for lows. Cap mods, tracking mods, prop mod all standard for the mids. Of course guns in the highs, apoc makes megapulse work very well with the optimal bonus it gets. I think there may be some case for megabeams as at longer ranges they will out damage t1 pulse. but most people go with pulse. Also pulse get much better with t2 ammo thanks to scorch.



Agreed.

If your SPs are too low, then you most likely you don't have enough DPS. If you eliminate your tracking computer, and replace your Heat sinks, as was mentioned, then your dps will drop and so will your tracking. Those big lasers won't be able to hit their targets effectively.
Your dps then affects the time you stay in the mission, the longer it takes to take down targets, the more damage you take yourself.

Maybe it's just too soon for L4s. IMHO

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

#7 - 2017-01-02 00:40:47 UTC
Thank you all for the imput what should i try to get to t2 first please
#8 - 2017-01-02 04:00:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Musashi Date
Get Mechanics 5 and Hull upgrades 5, that should open up the armor tanking T2 modules. Then cap recharger T2 should be in order. Missioning for me is about high resists (75~80+ %) and at least 3 minute cap stability with everything on, usually stable with the afterburner off. Get there by using Capacitor Control Circuit rigs and cap rechargers/large battery modules.

Overtank at first, so remove some of the heat sinks. Everytime you fudge your tank, prealign for a quick warpout and make sure your light drones are safe and killing the warp disrupting frigate that is on you.

Killing the frigates/drones usually is high priority whenever they are present, since cruisers and battleships don't web/disrupt.

I have a... range tanked (micro jump drive) Armageddon fit, kinda like a Dominix redux sentry boat fit. Its great for slow 'net connections and/or frequent disconnects to the server. Best of all is you only have to tank cruise missiles so you can bring a mobile depot and fit for max range/damage/cap/tank etc. Oh and enjoy hitting them from 100km or so..

Finally theres the helpmymission chat channel and other players that can offer you help with missioning. PM ingame if you wanna unlock agents in Amarr.
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-01-02 08:19:12 UTC
based on your tank , you are fighting guristas. you are dealing mainly em damage which isnt great against guristas

coupled with low skills, missions will take ages
#10 - 2017-01-02 14:32:53 UTC
Electromagnet,

With no damage mods, the Apocalypse puts out a dismal 350dps. Not very good for L4s, and that's with all skills at L5!

Using at least 2 Heat Sinks, the dps jumps to 515. With faction crystals, you get 592, and if you add in a 3rd Heat Sink, you get 666dps.

You need some damage mods! Don't worry if you're not cap stable.

Pulse lasers are for close range. If you went to Beams though the dps would drop, but you'd get more range.

Now, if you switched ships, and went to an Abaddon, with your 8 Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beams I, and 3 Heat Sinks and faction crystals, you'd get 833dps. If you could use Mega Pulse Lasers II, the dps would be about 915.

The longer you stay in the missions trying to pick off targets, the more damage you take.

You may have the right mods, there just in the wrong ship.

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

#11 - 2017-01-02 18:24:13 UTC
Musashi Date wrote:
Get Mechanics 5 and Hull upgrades 5, that should open up the armor tanking T2 modules. Then cap recharger T2 should be in order. Missioning for me is about high resists (75~80+ %) and at least 3 minute cap stability with everything on, usually stable with the afterburner off. Get there by using Capacitor Control Circuit rigs and cap rechargers/large battery modules.

I'm going to focus on the mods mostly, however there are a ton of support skills that are equally important. You should probably have most of the support skills at 3-4. The cap skills and gunnery skills are among the more important. Fitting skills, sensor skills, and navigation skills are all also helpful. The ship mastery tab should have some good suggestions. Training them all will have some unrelated skills or less helpful skills, but start with the sections with core in them and the large energy turret

imo hull upgrades is a somewhat long train and missions can be done with t1 hardeners. Hull upgrades 5 is for sure an important train and a good one to do, but there are some pre reqs for other mods and support skills I'd train first.

t2 cap recharger has very low requirements, should be a quick easy grab.

t2 heat sinks are pretty important, as other posters have mentioned killing stuff in a time efficient manor can make a big difference.

cap battery looks like a somewhat easy grab, however it might be better to use the meta version due to fitting costs. not looking at your skills and the fit I can't really make that call.

armor rep is somewhat important, it is a nice boost over the t1/meta versions, but the meta version should be okay to get started with.

The tracking comp requires a skill that boosts falloff which isn't very important for lasers. also the gain in optimal from t1/t2 isn't all that big. I'd put these as a pretty low priority.

Afterburner, another less important mod, also at the 100mn size there are many cheap faction/deadspace options. however some basic nav skills should be a quick train.

t2 guns are a huge upgrade, however a long train, you should be able to get comfortable running level 4s with meta guns there are ton of other skills to train first.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Cohortes Triarii
#12 - 2017-01-02 18:30:39 UTC
Why not team up with a corp mate and run them together while you get your skills up. This is the biggest downfall of newer players in eve trying to do things by themselves.
#13 - 2017-01-02 18:43:20 UTC
Laser ship in Gallente Space and a new player with low skills pretty much sums up all of your problems.
Gallente Space is loaded with NPC that have high resistances to EM and Thermal which is the majority of your damage output, there are several ways to over come this.

Move to Amarr space where the NPC you will be fighting are not as resistant to EM and Thermal. Down side here is you will likely have to start over with level one missions and work up again.

Change to a different ship, something Gallente, Minmatar or Caldari.

Go back to level 3's while your skills train so your ship can handle the missions better, here is a decent link to help with skills.
EvE Univcersity Core Skills

I have not fit an Apoc for a new player in years so I am not going to offer specific suggestions, there are some general things to keep in mind.

Cap stability is not needed in most cases, what you should be going for is what my corp mates like to call functional cap stability. To achieve this you need to be cap stable with everything but your rep running, with everything including your rep running you need around 3 to 5 minutes of capacitor as listed by a fit tool.

If you do not have a fit tool get one, the in game thingy is new and based on my experiences it does not give you the information you really need to set up a good fit.
EvE HqEvE HQ
PYFA
EvE fitting Toll
These are the most popular choices but there are others as well.

Consider running two reps instead of one. It is likely that you can set up a cap stable fit with a medium running full time and then augment that with a large as needed.

A MJD (micro jump drive) is another option to consider. This would allow you to jump out about 100K and then work at the outer ranges of your lasers as a way of mitigating the incoming damage from the smaller ships while you worked on the pocket. In this case you may want to start shooting at those smaller targets first while they are far away that minimizes the tracking issues with your large laser.

Do you have a corp mate or friend in your area you can fleet up with?

#14 - 2017-01-04 07:32:24 UTC
When starting I rushed to L4's myself and had similar problems. As some mentioned go for a long range setup, 60-90k effective range, meaning you wont miss much from that range. however at that range the npc's will miss you a lot and incoming dps should be easily manageable. In this case skills like Sharpshooter and Trajectory Analysis would be something you may want to train up.
Caldari State
#15 - 2017-01-04 14:29:19 UTC
As already mentioned, consider dropping back down to L3 missions, a low SP fit BS will cope very easily in them
though you may have some issues with an increased frigate count in the npc's
on the plus side, this gives you a good opportunity to practice drone management in supplementing your dps.

review the information for each module you have fitted, one of the tabs is variants (or similar), look at the skills needed to use the t2 version of the modules you currently have fitted, queue those skills specifically

check with the guys in the helpmymission channel (and go look at their website), missions don't need to done solo at all.
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2017-01-04 15:32:53 UTC
Agreed with everyone else.
Problem one is probably just low skills for the ship. In the smaller classes fitting and skills can be pretty liberal but as you work up to bigger and more advanced ships (T2/3) it gets tougher to wring performance out of the hull. Rats are tougher, and skills for things like resists (and damage bleed thru) become more important. Damage mitigation in general is more important, which can include navigation skills, engineering, etc.

Sticking with L3's (your BS is most likely allowed in most of the missions) for a bit is a good time to fill in some of those core skills. I know that long trains to V just for another 2-4% of something seems crazy but it can be the difference between having to GTFO and being able to stay on grid killing rats. Engineering (cap skills) are especially important for Amarr ships.

Don't forget that L4 rats will warp scramble you, making them much more dangerous than the previous 3 levels. If you are having trouble with L4's, it's really best to go back to 3's for a bit simply because you actually can find yourself killed in an L4. In any PvE I do (mostly null sec anoms) I obsessively murder all the frigates first to eliminate their tackle. Once dead, you are no longer in any danger because you can always warp out.

You might also consider working towards a T3 cruiser. They are tough as nails and more versatile than a BS. You can do other content with the T3 like exploration and such if you have to reject too many missions and find yourself with nothing to do.

Just stick with it. There is nothing wrong with having to warp out. It happens less and less frequently as your skills go up. Before long you will be semi-AFK and still facerolling the rats.

#17 - 2017-01-04 17:24:25 UTC
Electromagnetic Shield wrote:
iv almost died bout 3 times now just to taking too much damage i make sure not to agro when i can and i follow eve survival for ever mission but for some reason im still taking alot of damage i even started to fit dobble hardeners on my ship for certain resistances instead of fiting 3 heat sinks. the rigs are there just to keep me kinda cap stable... please help me this is my first bs and i dont wanna lose it. i run my missions out of vittenyn VI..

[Apocalypse, Apocalypse]
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Reactive Armor Hardener
Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Extruded Compact Heat Sink
Extruded Compact Heat Sink
Prototype Armor Thermal Hardener I

F-12 Enduring Tracking Computer
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5
Acolyte II x5

Microwave L x8
Infrared L x8
Xray L x8
Multifrequency L x8
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Radio L x16
optimal range script x1


ps: i cant find good forms on apocalypse for pve t1



How good are your drone and missile skills? If you want to try something exotic without completely reskilling to a non-Amarr battleship, try the Armageddon: You can use cruise missiles and sentry drones to snipe from afar. This way you can use ammunition/drones tailored to the weaknesses of the rats you're fighting.
#18 - 2017-01-04 19:10:53 UTC
A general tip for any PvE is to not risk getting that last kill if you are hurting. Always align to a safe spot/station/citadel, etc, and keep moving. If you start to drift into hull damage, warp out right away. There's no point in losing your ship because you think your tank can hold. Especially now with citadels that repair you for free, do your missions in a system with one, stay aligned to it and warp out. While you're training the skills that everyone else just mentioned, don't be afraid to warp out and back in a few times for every mission.
#19 - 2017-01-04 20:06:07 UTC
Thank you all for your input i found that i just need more dps and better management on the frig's.
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2017-01-05 23:41:35 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:

Another option is to do the first and replace the ab with a large micro jump drive, and replace the weapons for long range instead of short range. use the LMJD to jump 100km away and snipe.


I can't stress this enough. I had your same issue, then got the micro jump drive (you need to train the skill), and trained up things like long range targeting, plus the skills to improve weapon range, and I haven't had any issues since. Just jump into the mission, jump away from the aggro, and start kiting away and sniping. Once the mission rats close in and get too close, jump away again.
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