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Closed-World structured PVP implementation?

Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#41 - 2017-01-03 21:54:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
CCP Solomon wrote:
the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built
That cornerstone means that instances, of any kind, are explicitly excluded from the design of Eve, because they have no place here.

If people want arenas it's up to them to organise them, like many have before them. If they don't want others interfering, organise them on SiSi.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#42 - 2017-01-03 22:12:51 UTC
Deckel wrote:
And if I was so inclined and took on all the work and responsibility to host monthly, weekly, bi-weekly tournaments and games, and if it became popular just how would I regulate cheaters? gankers? and griefers? And even if it becomes big enough that CCP offered safe system server space, that still leads to both them and me continually burdened with manual effort. Effort that could be automated to both allow game-wide player participation and freedom from error-prone and cumbersome manual labor, contributing to a game that I personally don't want my entire life to revolve around.


EVE is a player driven sandbox, figure it out. CCP will never offer safe systems to do this in. A fundamental concept in EVE is you aren't safe any time, any where. Cheating and playing unfair are core parts of the game. If you got your way, the core playerbase would get bored and simply leave. It would kill a fundamental part of the game that's kept it going for 13 years.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2017-01-03 23:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Deckel wrote:
What view do you guys have towards implementing a battleground concept to Eve?
Instanced PVP in any form would destroy open PVP, it would also have a negative effect on the markets also which would be just as bad.

Nah it wouldn't change anything at all. Runescape had duel arena. Had no effect on the several versions of PvP that evolved throughout runescapes history from PvP areas to entire PvP enabled servers and PvP being put into minigames only.

What's interesting here is that eve already has a duel mechanic. There would be nothing wrong with creating a centralized location or dueling "hub" if a system or location doesn't already exist. You could even do a wreckage field as an asteroid belt or something. Like a ship graveyard, in the sense an asteroid belt is for mining the occasional system would have a ship graveyard for 1v1 or multiplayer duels.
Would be no different functionally than any player created systems that may be around already. Rather than 3 people making their own team and finding three other people to make a team this could be a formal dueling system, submit a fleet, establish rules and things like that. It would just be a more robust dueling system and not necessarily what op might be talking about.

There's nothing wrong with duel arenas. Gladiator style PvP is the best pvp.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2017-01-04 00:07:41 UTC
So create it yourself. Declare perimeter planet 1 to be a duel arena or something and just...put some effort in.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#45 - 2017-01-04 14:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
No they're not, as seen when the community lost its collective **** at the dojo thread.

Like my grandfather said, opinions are like noses everyone has at least one.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built
That cornerstone means that instances, of any kind, are explicitly excluded from the design of Eve, because they have no place here.

I will never understand or accept this argument, we already have thousands of dedicated magical areas around the EvE universe where a player or group of players can PvP with no risk of being blown up by other players. Yet people rarely complain about these and when someone does they are almost universally defended as a required part of the game.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
EVE is a player driven sandbox, figure it out. CCP will never offer safe systems to do this in. A fundamental concept in EVE is you aren't safe any time, any where. Cheating and playing unfair are core parts of the game. If you got your way, the core playerbase would get bored and simply leave. It would kill a fundamental part of the game that's kept it going for 13 years.

Sorry but you are wrong, see above.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#46 - 2017-01-04 15:34:25 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
No they're not, as seen when the community lost its collective **** at the dojo thread.

Like my grandfather said, opinions are like noses everyone has at least one.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built
That cornerstone means that instances, of any kind, are explicitly excluded from the design of Eve, because they have no place here.

I will never understand or accept this argument, we already have thousands of dedicated magical areas around the EvE universe where a player or group of players can PvP with no risk of being blown up by other players. Yet people rarely complain about these and when someone does they are almost universally defended as a required part of the game.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
EVE is a player driven sandbox, figure it out. CCP will never offer safe systems to do this in. A fundamental concept in EVE is you aren't safe any time, any where. Cheating and playing unfair are core parts of the game. If you got your way, the core playerbase would get bored and simply leave. It would kill a fundamental part of the game that's kept it going for 13 years.

Sorry but you are wrong, see above.



OK I'll bite. Where???

There is the test server, there is not undocking, and..... what? Where are these magical pvp places that I can't 3rd party into?
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#47 - 2017-01-04 16:17:14 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Sorry but you are wrong, see above.


Name one area in EVE where you can PvP with zero risk of a third party ruining your day
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#48 - 2017-01-04 21:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Donnachadh wrote:
I will never understand or accept this argument,
It's not an argument, it's a statement of fact.

Eve was built around the concept of other people being able to ruin your day, wherever you are; the original devs being "griefers" from Ultima Online.

Quote:
we already have thousands of dedicated magical areas around the EvE universe where a player or group of players can PvP with no risk of being blown up by other players.
Really? Name one.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#49 - 2017-01-04 22:41:28 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
we already have thousands of dedicated magical areas around the EvE universe where a player or group of players can PvP with no risk of being blown up by other players.

name one
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#50 - 2017-01-05 15:17:21 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
OK I'll bite. Where???

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Really? Name one.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
name one

How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2017-01-05 15:25:58 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
OK I'll bite. Where???

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Really? Name one.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
name one

How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.

If you are going to go there, which is completely off topic of the OP, you have to risk ISK and assets to market PVP all the while someone can under cut you or out bid you buy orders causing you to fail in that market.
So no there is definitely risk involved with market PVP, also there is the fact that you have to haul your goods to a market which is dangerous in and of itself.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#52 - 2017-01-05 19:30:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Donnachadh wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
OK I'll bite. Where???

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Really? Name one.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
name one

How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.
Wrong.

You can lose everything you own in the blink of an eye, through no fault of your own; hardly the definition of safe.

Ruining somebodies day via the market happens 23.5/7, especially in the station that you chose to use as an example.

Your ignorance is showing, put it away and try again.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#53 - 2017-01-05 19:35:11 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
OK I'll bite. Where???

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Really? Name one.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
name one

How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.

i get figuratively beaten up and robbed every time i open the market tab.
the markets arent safe
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#54 - 2017-01-05 19:36:15 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
... there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety...

Markets are far from completely safe.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#55 - 2017-01-05 19:44:13 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
... there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety...

Markets are far from completely safe.

arguably more dagerous
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#56 - 2017-01-05 19:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
... there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety...

Markets are far from completely safe.

arguably more dagerous
They can certainly be as brutal as any ship to ship PvP, if not more so.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#57 - 2017-01-05 20:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
I remember my first Tech 2 Frigate.

It was only a month later that someone pointed out that Assault Frigates go for around 15 to 20 million at the market hubs... not 120 million.

Yeah... the markets are no better than forms of combat you find in low-sec.

And few people ***** that they are effectively forced to utilize the market to get anywhere in the game in any reasonable amount of time.
But God forbid that someone shoots their spaceship without their consent... ohhh noooooooooooo...
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#58 - 2017-01-05 20:20:30 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
OK I'll bite. Where???

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Really? Name one.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
name one

How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.



Link where I stated that market pvp is a thing or just for the love of all that is pure and just - STFU.


I'm waiting for the link and I'm not at all nervous.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#59 - 2017-01-05 23:20:15 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.


If you've figured out how to play the market without competing with other players, please let me know. Until then....
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2017-01-05 23:35:31 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
OK I'll bite. Where???

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Really? Name one.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
name one

How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.



Link where I stated that market pvp is a thing or just for the love of all that is pure and just - STFU.


I'm waiting for the link and I'm not at all nervous.

I lolled, I wont provide the link of why but I did. Big smile

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.