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Its not fare punish PVE players with boredom. MORE FUN FOR PVE !

First post
Author
Salvos Rhoska
#81 - 2016-12-26 16:11:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Ban Mjolnir wrote:
I wouldn't mind missions where the objective is disputed - up the reward by the number of pilots involved. If four people are trying to rescue the damsel it might get interesting if only one gets the bacon.

This is already possible, in terms of running sites together, or someone probing you down and invading your mission space.

Upping rewards according to number of participants is not an operable solution to anything.
Last thing we need is mission multiboxing for even greater rewards.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2016-12-26 16:53:11 UTC
No wait this is an awesome idea

What if guristas had their own agents dispatching capsuleers to fight on their behalf in missions
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2016-12-26 16:55:33 UTC
make anything behind deadspace gates into pockets of lowsec without concord. -5 modifier to sec because lore
Ban Mjolnir
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2016-12-26 18:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ban Mjolnir
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ban Mjolnir wrote:
I wouldn't mind missions where the objective is disputed - up the reward by the number of pilots involved. If four people are trying to rescue the damsel it might get interesting if only one gets the bacon.

This is already possible, in terms of running sites together, or someone probing you down and invading your mission space.

Upping rewards according to number of participants is not an operable solution to anything.
Last thing we need is mission multiboxing for even greater rewards.



Only one participant per IP address, or second hop. It should be fairly trivial to make it difficult and more efficient for said multiboxer to run 4 separate missions instead. They would probably be doing incursions anyway .
Salvos Rhoska
#85 - 2016-12-26 20:03:16 UTC
Ban Mjolnir wrote:
Only one participant per IP address, or second hop. It should be fairly trivial to make it difficult and more efficient for said multiboxer to run 4 separate missions instead. They would probably be doing incursions anyway .


But you can already do collaboration of multiple players in all PvE, including high level DEDs and difficult WH content.
Infact its usually required. Nobody to my knowledge has managed to multibox high end Incursions, solo.

If your idea of improving the "entertainment" of PvE is simply increasing its rewards, I cannot side with you on that.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#86 - 2016-12-26 21:25:53 UTC
Some of you won't like this, but PvE is inherently boring. Whatever boss or NPC they add to the game will end up being predictable. Predictable content is generally what PvE players will run, they like feeling fairly sure when going out that they will be safe. They get a sense of accomplishment from running the pve sites and winning. Fatally though, predictable = boring.

CCP has flirted with unpredictable PvE, in drifters and originally the burners, but even these have been mostly figured out and can be farmed if you google for a couple minutes. Truly unpredictable PvE would require constant dev attention to rework sites without unbalancing them, which would be a lot of work. Even if it was done, how many mission runners would take a mission vs a random number of enemies compared with rescue the damsel for the millionth time?

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2016-12-26 22:01:12 UTC
Akis Talanas wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Akis Talanas wrote:
So change this...eve will not die...just your "ganky,griefy stupid eve" will be adjusted to a more "normal" game.....
like all the other games around.

That's not considered "bad",that's called "necessary".....


Okay so we change eve from what it is, a massive scale pvp game, into something else. A game where you can mine, do industry, all of the pve side of the game. Well what then? Who is going to buy your minerals? Who is going to buy the ships you produce? Quickly the market will become saturated and there will be near 0 profit on everything. Without the pvp destruction side of the game there couldn't be the same creation side. All meaning would have to come from NPC requests like "battle preparations: bring me 5 ravens" or other equally exciting things.

The day eve goes from being a player driven game to an NPC driven game is the day I quit for good.



Change is not bad.......

You are complaining something like "but we did it that way for 13 years now...why change it" and don't see the reality around you....

You are arguing a standstill because "all is well as it is" ignoring a change in expectation for a game......for every game around

Do you really see no problem here?



No, there is no problem because you are completely mis-characterizing what he wrote. He was not arguing for no change, but that much of the change is in fact driven by the players. You cannot do what the OP suggests and retain the sandbox nature of the game. The whole idea is you set up a game (or any other environment) with some fairly simple rules/mechanics/etc. and let the players (or other entities) interact and build things...complicated things.

CCP does come along and add new things, but they tend not to constrain players. The thing that makes Eve different is that the players are largely unconstrained relative to other MMOs. Here players build up giant empires...and tear them down.

Of course, you won't have much fun if you just expect CCP to entertain you via missions which is about the only thing in game that does not have some element of competition (aka PvP).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2016-12-26 22:34:04 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Some of you won't like this, but PvE is inherently boring. Whatever boss or NPC they add to the game will end up being predictable. Predictable content is generally what PvE players will run, they like feeling fairly sure when going out that they will be safe. They get a sense of accomplishment from running the pve sites and winning. Fatally though, predictable = boring.

CCP has flirted with unpredictable PvE, in drifters and originally the burners, but even these have been mostly figured out and can be farmed if you google for a couple minutes. Truly unpredictable PvE would require constant dev attention to rework sites without unbalancing them, which would be a lot of work. Even if it was done, how many mission runners would take a mission vs a random number of enemies compared with rescue the damsel for the millionth time?


Or adding other players to the mix to create competition and innovation....which brings us to Rain6637's idea...which is interesting. Have agents from different factions sending players into a mission to compete for the objective.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#89 - 2016-12-26 23:38:26 UTC
I'm not sure how you would solve the timing of ensuring there is an encounter, but as for mechanics we can loot containers so the requirements for CTF are there.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2016-12-26 23:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
combine like, the maze site with 10 on 10 capture the flag.

worlds collide maybe. and your team has to place the other side's item in the wreck at the last room. meanwhile you get to shoot each other. and the NPCs on your side are friendly to you.

There's even bumping and rocket league is a possibility. Either format is more entertaining than the current tournaments. Which is like watching old people fight

in slow motion
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#91 - 2016-12-27 01:43:36 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
combine like, the maze site with 10 on 10 capture the flag.

worlds collide maybe. and your team has to place the other side's item in the wreck at the last room. meanwhile you get to shoot each other. and the NPCs on your side are friendly to you.

There's even bumping and rocket league is a possibility. Either format is more entertaining than the current tournaments. Which is like watching old people fight

in slow motion

If I wanted to watch old people fight, I would go to a family reunion.

Lol
Sweet Adamas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2017-02-05 23:00:51 UTC
Run 10/10s in Russian space.

Never boring
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#93 - 2017-02-05 23:35:20 UTC
Before one is too quick to rag on the OP, remember, the better days of Eve were thanks to PVe. And it's not about "easier PVe". More does not mean easy. And to make matters worse, existing PVe was in fact made easier in the solo aspect, and newer stuff made difficult to require a team (or alts). That which was challenging and not nerfed is just plain "old" now. We have the same missions now as then, but much better ships and more modules. So even what appears static is indirectly nerfed.

Hence interesting, productive and challenging PVe was the heyday of Eve. Players who ask for such things would best not be harassed with "Hurrrr durrr PVP game" for as we have seen, that argument has been the argument winning with CCP and the "vision" of the game, and the game seems like a ghost town compared to the days of olde. And there isn't much "content" in a ghost town, is there?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#94 - 2017-02-06 01:24:11 UTC
I don't necessarily think players want EVE to be safer. Just more interesting. There are ways to expand PvE in such a way that it actually encompasses more potential for PvP, and many of you might be surprised at how receptive many PvE'ers would be to the prospect. Just a few examples: Overhauling the bounty system so that players can pursue a career in hunting down EVE's most wanted, allowing more player meddling in mining and missions (similar to FW - including establishing territorial claims), privatizing CONCORD in high-sec (making it vulnerable and at the same time an active deterrent to criminal activities)... and the list goes on.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Wolfgang Jannesen
Scrapyard Artificer's
#95 - 2017-02-06 13:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolfgang Jannesen
I don't know what you guys expect for PVE but it's going to be exactly what you're already doing, whether that's ratting or missions, just under different pretences (Incursions, Sleeper sites, etc). I know you're sick of hearing that eve is a pvp based game but honestly, if you're not enjoying PVE already it's never going to get more exciting, just more difficult and profitable. I love flying battleships for missions but I'm not exclusively a PVE player, you'll be happier giving yourself the option to do both.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#96 - 2017-02-06 14:27:16 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Before one is too quick to rag on the OP, remember, the better days of Eve were thanks to PVe. And it's not about "easier PVe". More does not mean easy. And to make matters worse, existing PVe was in fact made easier in the solo aspect, and newer stuff made difficult to require a team (or alts). That which was challenging and not nerfed is just plain "old" now. We have the same missions now as then, but much better ships and more modules. So even what appears static is indirectly nerfed.

Hence interesting, productive and challenging PVe was the heyday of Eve. Players who ask for such things would best not be harassed with "Hurrrr durrr PVP game" for as we have seen, that argument has been the argument winning with CCP and the "vision" of the game, and the game seems like a ghost town compared to the days of olde. And there isn't much "content" in a ghost town, is there?



Oh, but you can colonize all of the ghost town for yourself!

CCP Seagull wrote:
Announcement: Rubicon – Towards the Future of EVE Online
by Andie Norden (CCP Seagull)

EVE Online is not just a game – it’s one of the world’s most ambitious living works of science fiction. The EVE universe is a canvas for some of the most hard core PvP action in the gaming world, player driven stories of epic dimensions that mirror humanity in both amazing and disturbing ways, and individual stories of exploring this world and achieving personal goals.

As we take the next steps on our journey with EVE Online, we will continue to create an amazing, demanding game experience that challenges intelligent people to master what the universe offers. But now we are also questioning old truths and the rules that govern the New Eden universe, and we are doing it in line with the vision we presented at Fanfest 2013 in Reykjavik. That vision is about giving players, in the form of their immortal capsuleer representations, more power over this universe than ever before. This journey starts with EVE Online: Rubicon, and will unfold over the next several expansions to EVE Online.

We ask you to imagine with us. Think about an ancient, consistent dream of mankind: space colonization. Imagine conquering the stars and bending space itself to our will. Such gargantuan efforts are built on the hard work of science, engineering, innovation and industry – the same components also used to wreak terrifying destruction. The duality of that cycle, creation and destruction through technical advancements, fuels the EVE universe and we will amplify it in EVE going forward.

In the universe of EVE Online, military and industrial might re-emerged following the dark ages of the EVE Gate collapse, growing into four human civilizations that rose to the stars: the Amarr Empire, the Gallente Federation, the Caldari State and the Minmatar Republic. Yet the capsuleers, the immortal pilots of EVE’s most powerful spaceships, are becoming a stronger and stronger force of their own. They will not settle with what has been served to them thus far. EVE Online: Rubicon is the first step beyond a point of no return, on a dangerous path to ascension with consequences that neither capsuleers nor players can predict.

Think about building things and about destroying them.

Think about the rise of the immortal capsuleer, taking over what the human Empires used to control

Imagine capsuleer corporations, rising in power and capabilities, flying their own colors and using their might to build up whole areas of space. Imagine disrupting what someone else built up, through cunning or force. Imagine profiting from the interstellar-scale industry generated as capsuleers take control of new powerful technologies.

Imagine what could happen if capsuleers truly mastered the science of space travel itself, and were no longer bound to the known universe.

We are on a long term plan to deliver on what we imagine for EVE Online and New Eden. With Rubicon we continue our efforts to improve and balance the game, to support our player community, and give you the unique sandbox science fiction experience that EVE Online provides.

As capsuleers, you will find the first keys to the future.

Be part of the game. Be part of the universe. Be part of the story.


Carebears not wanted. Bear
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#97 - 2017-02-06 14:51:47 UTC
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
I don't know what you guys expect for PVE but it's going to be exactly what you're already doing, whether that's ratting or missions, just under different pretences (Incursions, Sleeper sites, etc). I know you're sick of hearing that eve is a pvp based game but honestly, if you're not enjoying PVE already it's never going to get more exciting, just more difficult and profitable. I love flying battleships for missions but I'm not exclusively a PVE player, you'll be happier giving yourself the option to do both.


This is what the "downtrodden PVEr" crowd cannot understand. If you don't like EVE PVE already, you never will.

Look at Drifters, and how little people do all the "new" (post 2011) PVE compared to running Missions and shooting rats in Anomalies. CCP delivers new pve, EVE PVEr's ignore it while claiming they want more PVE. CCPs PVE efforts since 2011 have been largely wasted.

I don't fall into that trap. I KNOW I prefer the current system of Missions and Anomalies and Complexes, I like how you can tackle the various forms of content in new ways and how you can even turn that content into a PVP weapon if you know what you are doing. I like EVE's take on PVE so much I actually turned up at the last CSM PVE townhall, unlike the posters in this thread who are complaining about the lack of PVE.

They are just looking for some way to feel like a victim, because in some twisted way being a victim feels good to them. They aren't actually interested in PVE.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#98 - 2017-02-06 15:29:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
I don't know what you guys expect for PVE but it's going to be exactly what you're already doing, whether that's ratting or missions, just under different pretences (Incursions, Sleeper sites, etc). I know you're sick of hearing that eve is a pvp based game but honestly, if you're not enjoying PVE already it's never going to get more exciting, just more difficult and profitable. I love flying battleships for missions but I'm not exclusively a PVE player, you'll be happier giving yourself the option to do both.


This is what the "downtrodden PVEr" crowd cannot understand. If you don't like EVE PVE already, you never will.

Look at Drifters, and how little people do all the "new" (post 2011) PVE compared to running Missions and shooting rats in Anomalies. CCP delivers new pve, EVE PVEr's ignore it while claiming they want more PVE. CCPs PVE efforts since 2011 have been largely wasted.

I don't fall into that trap. I KNOW I prefer the current system of Missions and Anomalies and Complexes, I like how you can tackle the various forms of content in new ways and how you can even turn that content into a PVP weapon if you know what you are doing. I like EVE's take on PVE so much I actually turned up at the last CSM PVE townhall, unlike the posters in this thread who are complaining about the lack of PVE.

They are just looking for some way to feel like a victim, because in some twisted way being a victim feels good to them. They aren't actually interested in PVE.


Part of the issue with drifters was the unavoidable loss it included. Group play where the RNG determine who lose a ship with next to no counter was kind of a bad design IMO.

As for the rest of PVE things, I think there are two point CCP might want to look into. 1st, AFK game play is just stupid. 2nd, doing PVE in group is effectively a self-inflicted nerf most of the time.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#99 - 2017-02-06 15:35:31 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


Part of the issue with drifters was the unavoidable loss it included. Group play where the RNG determine who lose a ship with next to no counter was kind of a bad design IMO.


To me it seems like Drifters are an over-reaction. They wanted to make something new and cool but they also wanted it to not be farmable. Drifters at 1st were farmable (I still like watching the vdieo of the guy soloing Drifters with a Cerberus) so they over-reacted and made them damn near invincible and something you have to take a loss to kill. Drifters are the most unfun PVE I've ever experienced in EVE.

Quote:

As for the rest of PVE things, I think there are two point CCP might want to look into. 1st, AFK game play is just stupid. 2nd, doing PVE in group is effectively a self-inflicted nerf most of the time.


Yea, that sucks. People complain about Carrier ratting but it's afk ishtars, VNIs and Drone boats inflating the hell out of the isk income from bounties.

CCP actually fixed the shared PVe bonus problem with Incursions, but then never modified that system to work with other PVE sharing. Now sharing a mission of anomaly with another players is an act of Charity rather than of Profit Sad
Uncle Bork
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2017-02-06 16:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Uncle Bork
From my experience the problem is really more one of time than anything (yes, this is an ALT, say Hi to the alt).

PVP can take a lot of time and much of that time can be very boring. ALign, warp, align, warp... (or maybe camp). There is little focus on what your time window is like because it is all people driven. When the battles end up ridiculously uneven, people run, therefore even more time is wasted. There is little fun in being in a 5-10 man fleet when you run up against a group of 50+. When you spend all night running around looking for a chance at a reasonable fight and you don't find one, that feels like a waste of time. Did I have fun? No. It is PVP that has a time issue attached to it that can seriously impact a player's desire to do it. I've been in huge fleets that were supposed to be a two hour roam that suddent dragged on for 3-6 hours because of time dilation. Was it fun? Sort of, but I ended up having to pay for it later (in terms of sleep usually, and some wife arggo).

PVE is more stable in terms of time. I know about how long a mission will take, do I have time for that? Yes. Was it fun? Yes. I have time to watch a movie, but I could also do a little mining. Was their time for that? Yes. Did I have fun? Yes. What about scanning? Time expectation is understood. Same with PI, Market work, manufacturing, etc...

Faction warfare would seem to be the best attempt so far to make PVP and time compatible, but the huge mob issues allowed for farming to the point that I stopped even caring. (I haven't looked since I came back after a three year break, did it even get addressed?)

The other side of the coin is the problem with PVE in general when you have a working economy. As others have said, the game is based on PVP and that is completely true. If more PVE were introduced, the problem is more free isk entering the system, and that can only be countered by isk sinks (taxes and fees) or reducing payouts. If payouts get to low for a PVE activie, people will stop doing them because they are no longer rewarding. They will want to find something else to do with their time, because they might feel they are no longer having fun.

I left three years ago because I was no longer having fun and I was mostly a PVEer, mainly because of time. I had been hit by the nerf bat so many times doing the things that I enjoyed I had to walk away. The goal at the time was an apparent massive push to force grouping and PVP, with all the little cracks and mini-gaming aspects getting removed or nerfed. I would love to have more PVE content in this game, but I also have seen what happens when it becomes the focus of the game, and that isn't fun for long either.

TLDR: More PVE will not make for more rewarding play for long.