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Citadel Scam
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Tesal
#1 - 2016-12-20 21:34:31 UTC
I haven't seen this on the forums yet, but it looks like there is a new Citadel scam. As far as I can see it works like this: bring in a client base with cheap or no market fees. Once you have the client base set the fees to an extreme level. Profit.
Ctccer Sotken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-12-20 21:44:51 UTC
Tesal wrote:
I haven't seen this on the forums yet, but it looks like there is a new Citadel scam. As far as I can see it works like this: bring in a client base with cheap or no market fees. Once you have the client base set the fees to an extreme level. Profit.


Hmm you seem to assume the client base will pay the extreme fees. Where is the profit if they don't ?
Tesal
#3 - 2016-12-20 21:53:43 UTC
Ctccer Sotken wrote:
Tesal wrote:
I haven't seen this on the forums yet, but it looks like there is a new Citadel scam. As far as I can see it works like this: bring in a client base with cheap or no market fees. Once you have the client base set the fees to an extreme level. Profit.


Hmm you seem to assume the client base will pay the extreme fees. Where is the profit if they don't ?


Not everyone checks the fees when they make a trade. If you aren't paying attention you get screwed. They assume the fees are the same as they were last time. When you set the fees to 2000% you only need a few people.
Ctccer Sotken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-12-20 22:13:20 UTC
Tesal wrote:
Ctccer Sotken wrote:
Tesal wrote:
I haven't seen this on the forums yet, but it looks like there is a new Citadel scam. As far as I can see it works like this: bring in a client base with cheap or no market fees. Once you have the client base set the fees to an extreme level. Profit.


Hmm you seem to assume the client base will pay the extreme fees. Where is the profit if they don't ?


Not everyone checks the fees when they make a trade. If you aren't paying attention you get screwed. They assume the fees are the same as they were last time. When you set the fees to 2000% you only need a few people.


I should imagine that traders operating in Citadels would be acutely 'fee conscious' Are traders really as dumb as you seem to think they are?
Tesal
#5 - 2016-12-20 22:18:54 UTC
Ctccer Sotken wrote:
Tesal wrote:
Ctccer Sotken wrote:
Tesal wrote:
I haven't seen this on the forums yet, but it looks like there is a new Citadel scam. As far as I can see it works like this: bring in a client base with cheap or no market fees. Once you have the client base set the fees to an extreme level. Profit.


Hmm you seem to assume the client base will pay the extreme fees. Where is the profit if they don't ?


Not everyone checks the fees when they make a trade. If you aren't paying attention you get screwed. They assume the fees are the same as they were last time. When you set the fees to 2000% you only need a few people.


I should imagine that traders operating in Citadels would be acutely 'fee conscious' Are traders really as dumb as you seem to think they are?


Some people are that dumb. Its just another thing scammers can try.
Izchadie
Ministerstvo na otbranata
Ore No More
#6 - 2016-12-20 22:33:50 UTC
You don't know exactly when to do it to catch the big fish - someone might put very small order and cry out in local..After that you'll be trading mostly on your own in your citadel.

I hate the false advertising though - all citadels are named - free, 0.0 etc...Yet when you dock that's not the truth. It's not the minimal fee that bothers me, it's the lies.
Leida FireEye
Iron Eagle Industries
#7 - 2016-12-20 23:04:44 UTC
This is exactly the reason I decided against moving my station trading operation to a citadel. Those extra couple of percent is a fair price for insurance against these shenanigans in my opinion.

I noted the possibility this might happen in a previous forum post but it was purely hypothetical at that point. Do you have evidence this has occurred in practice?
Scarlett LaBlanc
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-12-20 23:33:25 UTC
IF it were to happen, it would not be a "scam". The station owner can set fees to what ever they want.

What it would be is terrible business. A sudden, dramatic increase in fees and I would simply move. As would everyone else using that facility. It's not like there is any lack of competition. Have you seen the Perimeter system? You can get out of your pod and walk on citadels all the way to New Caldari.

The Facility I have been using is still set to zero (the minimum 100 ISK brokerage fee is set by the game). I assume at some point they will have enough traffic that they can charge something, and I hope they do. People should get paid for their trouble, and Lord knows they are saving their customers a ton of ISK in fees.
Tesal
#9 - 2016-12-20 23:34:59 UTC
Leida FireEye wrote:
This is exactly the reason I decided against moving my station trading operation to a citadel. Those extra couple of percent is a fair price for insurance against these shenanigans in my opinion.

I noted the possibility this might happen in a previous forum post but it was purely hypothetical at that point. Do you have evidence this has occurred in practice?


Here is the info I have.

Riemannian Manifold Torus
Perimeter - Planet V Trade Hub
sell brokers fee 2083.33%
95.25 isk for one tritanium
Scarlett LaBlanc
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-12-21 00:15:22 UTC
Tesal wrote:
Leida FireEye wrote:
This is exactly the reason I decided against moving my station trading operation to a citadel. Those extra couple of percent is a fair price for insurance against these shenanigans in my opinion.

I noted the possibility this might happen in a previous forum post but it was purely hypothetical at that point. Do you have evidence this has occurred in practice?


Here is the info I have.


Perimeter - Planet V Trade Hub



That is the facility I use. I placed 150 Million in buy orders there today at 19:53. I paid nothing in brokerage fees (aside from the 100 ISK minimum). I can not speak to anything that has happened since, and am at work and can not check.

If this it true I would be disappointed to have to move, but it is Eve. If people are too careless to look before they hit "OK"...
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-12-21 01:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Karin Yang
Tesal wrote:
Leida FireEye wrote:
This is exactly the reason I decided against moving my station trading operation to a citadel. Those extra couple of percent is a fair price for insurance against these shenanigans in my opinion.

I noted the possibility this might happen in a previous forum post but it was purely hypothetical at that point. Do you have evidence this has occurred in practice?


Here is the info I have.

Riemannian Manifold Torus
Perimeter - Planet V Trade Hub
sell brokers fee 2083.33%
95.25 isk for one tritanium


There is a minimal fee 100 ISK no matter what you sell. So if you test brokers fee with one tritanium, you will always find your brokers fee rate at a scary level. But if you look at the value, it's 100 ISK only.

Because 100 ISK/5 ISK = 2000%

Please sell something more valuable when you want to test brokers fee rate.

btw, the highest rate that one can set is 50%.
Seer Profitus
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-12-21 01:19:44 UTC
Planet V Trade Hub is the citadel I use. It's been at 0.1% broker fee for a while.

Raising it to 2000% for a few transactions and then lowering it back to normal sounds like an interesting tactic.

I personally would like proof that this is occurring. A wallet transaction, perhaps?

May the market bless you and keep you;

May the market make its opportunities shine upon you and be profitable to you;

May the market lift up its margins upon you and grant you ISK.
Tesal
#13 - 2016-12-21 03:00:04 UTC
I think I made a hasty mistake. I think I was looking at the trade of less than 100 isk with 100 isk minimum order. Its not nearly as profitable as I was thinking. Apologies to the owner of the Citadel.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#14 - 2016-12-21 06:50:36 UTC
Karin Yang wrote:

btw, the highest rate that one can set is 50%.

Worth remembering for everyone.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#15 - 2016-12-21 07:03:52 UTC
I might have suggested this to a few people a while ago.

I didn't attempt it, but if I had, I would have paid mercs to protect the citadel and provided them warning of the scam so they were not shafted.

Remember fees are capped at 50%. I didn't think it was possible to make the necessary 25b from this scam to warrant pulling it. You'd need a lot of PLEX turnover in the station.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Mihara Zamayid
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2016-12-22 15:22:26 UTC
I always thought why scam has no punishment by a in-game mechanics.

Altrhough this is a sandbox and almost everything is possible, there is a thing that is called civilization. New Eden should have some kind of control. Concord should be less dumb and punish the crime in a effective way.

Is how it works in our real world, the crime often does not worth. But in eve the rule is that the crime almost allways worth.
lord xavier
Rubbed Out
#17 - 2016-12-22 18:15:01 UTC
Mihara Zamayid wrote:
I always thought why scam has no punishment by a in-game mechanics.

Altrhough this is a sandbox and almost everything is possible, there is a thing that is called civilization. New Eden should have some kind of control. Concord should be less dumb and punish the crime in a effective way.

Is how it works in our real world, the crime often does not worth. But in eve the rule is that the crime almost allways worth.



I actually agree. While I still hold hope this game remains true to its sandbox nature. I think a civilization that doesnt have its reprocussions for doing dastardly things outside of violencing another players ship in High/Low sec is kinda silly. However, at the same time. CCP would have to entrust a set or group of players to actually go through a list of reports for scams, for it to have an effect on them in game. There is no automatic way to there to be a scam detention and you cannot trust the normal player, now with alphas,to properly do a "This was a scammer." function, because someone would get butt hurt at someone and spam them with that over the other person stealing their space girlfriend.

Ultimately having reprocussions for scamming would take a toll on the player base that is in charge of being "super moderators."
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#18 - 2016-12-23 05:53:51 UTC
Mihara Zamayid wrote:
I always thought why scam has no punishment by a in-game mechanics.

Altrhough this is a sandbox and almost everything is possible, there is a thing that is called civilization. New Eden should have some kind of control. Concord should be less dumb and punish the crime in a effective way.

Is how it works in our real world, the crime often does not worth. But in eve the rule is that the crime almost allways worth.





There are consequences for doing this. The game client does not enforce them because New Eden is a universe with very stretched law enforcement.

Other players will remember you and might seek revenge.

This scam involves a 17 billion ISK investment. Anyone aggrieved by your scam can either attack that investment themselves, or bribe, convince, cajole or coerce someone else into doing so.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Spacing Cowboy
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-12-25 08:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Spacing Cowboy
There is a way more lucrative scam going on with citadels.

Set it as a freeport
Wait until a shiny ships cyno's in..
Pull the standings ( so the shiny boat will not get RR, and most likely there to big to dock anyway )
Proceed to farm the shiny ship with some high dps.

Delerik got a "freeport" like that.
Keeps suckering in dreads, carriers and jf's like nobody reads up on zkillboards :)

While technical not a scam, the profits are high.


( edit, im not to certain it is Delerik, could also be that lowsec scrub area next door )
Should be easy to find.
Bidi something... Bindob... whatever.. something like that.