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Gatecamps vs Noobs

Author
Fleshbits L'Splatter
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-12-17 14:51:57 UTC
Everything I am reading explains how to get around gatecamps using a cloak. Well, noobs don't have a cloak. Are we expected to sit in highsec for months while our skills train and we save up for a cloaking ship?

What can we do to avoid camp deaths when trying to get to losec?

I saw a text article that seemed to claim we could get through a gate camp in a fast ship or a frigate and that we shouldn't die unless on autopilot. I sure couldn't. If that claim is true, is there a video somewhere that will hold a noob's hand through the process?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2 - 2016-12-17 14:57:38 UTC
For a beginner, I'd say your best friend is agility. You need to be in warp before they can lock you.

So train up what skills you can to accomplish that, put in some agility mods and maybe a rig or two and see if you fare better. It won't work to pass a dedicated camper, but your odds of surviving the majority of them do go up a lot.

Mr Epeen Cool
Solaris Ecladia
Mostly Sober
Aggressively Average
#3 - 2016-12-17 15:04:24 UTC
Not sure how you die unless you're careless. I frequently burn my cyno alts through lowsec and nulsec in a noobship. I only die if I got a bubble and can't get out.
Gradinger
Todmacher
#4 - 2016-12-17 15:05:20 UTC
there's several approaches to that and several tools you can use

as mentioned fit your ship for agility is one possibility
also you can fit for speed to crash back to the gate if you should be tackled
and there are warp stabs

also you can use intel, either through intel networks - and if there are none, you could start one..
or intel through the map (looking for people in space, kills etc)



Fleshbits L'Splatter
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-12-17 15:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Fleshbits L'Splatter
Solaris Ecladia wrote:
Not sure how you die unless you're careless. I frequently burn my cyno alts through lowsec and nulsec in a noobship. I only die if I got a bubble and can't get out.



Well, I die because I go "OH CRAP WHAT DO I DO?!" I'm a noob. I don't know what to do beyond watch the pretty lights make thier way through my shields and hull. I don't even know what the pretty lights are. Am I locked? Am I not locked? I dunno.

What do you do, what buttons do you press?
That's why I kind of need a video, that goes slow and explains the his button presses, in a noob ship like a frigate, but all I can find are videos of super fancy ships using cloak.
Salvos Rhoska
#6 - 2016-12-17 15:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Without cloak, you need as high agility as possible to warp as quickly as possible before you are target locked by the gate camp.
But even that will not be sufficient against some gate campers.
Alternatively you can try to tank them whilst the gate guns fire on them, but this is unlikely to succeed cos the campers know their limits and you will have difficulty getting enough tank fitted.
Or warp stabilisers. Or sufficient propulsion to burn back to the gate you entered through.

Remember to check the ingame map or dotlan website for recently destroyed ships/capsules which indicate gate camp activity there. Find other access points.

Without more information on why exactly you entered LS, I cant give more specific advice.

However yes, your conclusion is somewhat accurate.
There is very little for you in LS as a new player.
Fleshbits L'Splatter
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2016-12-17 15:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Fleshbits L'Splatter
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Without more information on why exactly you entered LS, I cant give more specific advice.


I'm there to mine the more lucrative minerals, to do the exploration bit and hack for more expensive loot, and sometimes to buy modules for my ship that are significantly cheaper (is it a trap?).

Trying to make a buck.
Rykuss
Inactive.
The Ancients.
#8 - 2016-12-17 15:37:48 UTC
Many times, the best defense against a gate camp is to simply avoid it to begin with. As mentioned already, the in-game map and Dotlan are two valuable tools for this. You look for players in space, number of jumps, ships and pods destroyed in the last hour. Ships and pods destroyed in 24 hours will give you a good indication on whether or not this system is frequently camped. Look at the killboards, you can search for a solar system which will show you the kills for that system. Look at the traffic and kills for other entry systems into the region you are trying to get into. Over time, you will see a pattern. Learning ship types is also important, you have about a minute to survey the camper's composition. Look around you for fast locking ships and those ships that may offer remote sebos to boost their tackle. It may be better to burn back to gate, meaning you align back to the gate you came from and cycle your prop mod (Micro-warpdrive) once, which is typically enough to get you back to gate. Then you jump through, leaving most of them behind with an aggression timer, meaning they can't follow. This won't always be true, of course, because one or two may jump through ahead of you but it is still better odds in your favor.

You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.

Beast of Revelations
Multiverse Trading
#9 - 2016-12-17 15:45:55 UTC
This is the best answer. I know because all my dealings are in low-sec or null sec.

Scout with a noob ship first. Guess what, it's FREE, and you have absolutely nothing to lose. So jump through the gate with a noob ship. If there is a gate camp, you die. No problem, now you know to look elsewhere. So get into another noob ship, and go to another system. BOOM - you die again. Rinse, repeat until you find an open gate to low-sec or null-sec or wherever you are trying to go.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-12-17 15:46:23 UTC
As have been stated before, avoiding a gatecamp all together is the best way.

Use resources like Dotlan, to check what gates would have a high chance of a camp sitting there.

Besides that, I'd say make use of wormholes. If I don't have a specific system I want to go to, but just want to go to say some null sec space. It is extremely easy just to find some wormhole that will take you to some random nullsec system.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#11 - 2016-12-17 15:52:55 UTC
Fleshbits L'Splatter wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Without more information on why exactly you entered LS, I cant give more specific advice.


I'm there to mine the more lucrative minerals, to do the exploration bit and hack for more expensive loot, and sometimes to but modules for my ship that are significantly cheaper (is it a trap?).

Trying to make a buck.

Go off the beaten path for the best chance of avoiding a gate camp. Many camps are on gates that are known to have high traffic which is why it is worth camping.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Alasdan Helminthauge
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#12 - 2016-12-17 15:56:24 UTC
Fleshbits L'Splatter wrote:
and sometimes to but modules for my ship that are significantly cheaper (is it a trap?).


Yes, it is.

I think the best option is to choose your path more carefully. There're thousands of low-sec gates, so of course they can't always be camped. Actually, only a few of them are usually camped, like the Tama gate (it's almost camped 23/7). You should be able to know which gate is usually camped after some playing (maybe by losing some ships to the campers), and from the in-game map tool (see how many ships destroyed in the last hour) and out-game intel tools.

btw, cloak I is a very fast train and the T1 cloak is pretty cheap (less than 2 mil in Jita), but it probably won't save you from a good camp (if it's good enough, no ship can escape actually. even a 2-sec-aligning Yacht can be smart-bombed).
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-12-17 16:28:27 UTC
Fleshbits L'Splatter wrote:
Everything I am reading explains how to get around gatecamps using a cloak. Well, noobs don't have a cloak. Are we expected to sit in highsec for months while our skills train and we save up for a cloaking ship?

For cloaking 3 you just need a day and can do the MWD trick which will be sufficent in low
Expendable Unit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-12-17 16:32:37 UTC
Noobs win
Bargain Benny
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-12-17 16:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bargain Benny
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Fleshbits L'Splatter wrote:
Everything I am reading explains how to get around gatecamps using a cloak. Well, noobs don't have a cloak. Are we expected to sit in highsec for months while our skills train and we save up for a cloaking ship?

For cloaking 3 you just need a day and can do the MWD trick which will be sufficent in low



This only works if OP is has Omega status. OP hasn't specified but I'm wondering if he's an Alpha player.

Anyway, to the OP, without a cloak your best defense is to gather information beforehand on your route. There are certain ships you can fit to have a ridiculously fast align time but those might require better skills than you have at the moment. You have some in-game and out-of-game tools available to you for this.

First off, as was mentioned already, you can scout your route with a corvette and an deadhead (no head implants) clone.

Second, you can use the in-game map filters to impose a heatmap onto the map of the in-game star cluster that illustrates several statistics. Of particular interest are the "ships destroyed in the last hour", "pods destroyed in the last hour", "number of pilots in space", and "jumps in the last hour". You could also use the out-of-game website tool DOTLAN for this.

You can go to the Zkillboard website and search the system you're about to enter. Zkillboard logs killmails and provides a timestamp, so you can click on recent kills in the system and see what the ships were killed by and whether it looks like a gatecamp.

You could also use wormholes to circumvent the high-traffic lowsec routes to nullsec, but wormholes carry their own dangers.
Iain Cariaba
#16 - 2016-12-17 16:35:06 UTC
Don't fly totally unfit ships. A MWD and some tanks would have let you crash the gate and try to run that way.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#17 - 2016-12-17 16:37:11 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:

For cloaking 3 you just need a day and can do the MWD trick which will be sufficent in low

An Alpha char can't use cloaks at all, so that might be what they're referring to when they say they can't use one.

Fleshbits L'Splatter wrote:

I'm there to mine the more lucrative minerals, to do the exploration bit and hack for more expensive loot, and sometimes to buy modules for my ship that are significantly cheaper (is it a trap?).

Trying to make a buck.

As crazy as it may sound, you'll probably end up making more from mining in highsec. The value of the best ore in Lowsec is only around 20-25% higher than the best ore in Highsec, but you're going to be in a much more dangerous position while mining in. The downtime from waiting and the need to transport it all will eat away any profits you have on it.

Check out Google for information related to ore and it's m3 value (all mining lasers work in volume, not raw quantities, so you want to focus on the best ISK for your m3 that you can get), then see where it's available. You can also give Mission Mining a try to have a more stable "private" belt than the usual atrophied "public" belts in highsec.
Salvos Rhoska
#18 - 2016-12-17 16:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Fleshbits L'Splatter wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Without more information on why exactly you entered LS, I cant give more specific advice.


I'm there to mine the more lucrative minerals, to do the exploration bit and hack for more expensive loot, and sometimes to buy modules for my ship that are significantly cheaper (is it a trap?).

Trying to make a buck.


Ok then.

This is my recommendation:
1) Mining:
-Forget about mining in LS unless you are in an LS corp. LS is extremely aggressive and territorial.
-Consider joining a new player friendly NS corp, and mining in their space.
-WH corps are unlikely to recruit you, hut you can try.
-If you do not do the above, consider mining Ice in HS.
-Notable option is gas mining in WHs. Look into it.

2) Exploration:
-Do not explore in LS unless you are in a LS corp. You will die in fire, and LS data/relic sites are not lucrative.
-Explore in WHs or NS. (Or pass through WHs into NS).
-Fit ship accordingly, plan a route and suitable time to bypass gatecamps.
-WHs are potentially extremely dangerous, if you dont know the sites to run, or there is someone in there with you.
-Consider NPC NS. Local chat will inform you if you are alone and safe, or find a place/s to hide till they leave.

3) Buying cheaper modules from LS:
-If the savings on that module cost less than your entire ship/fittings, then go for it.
-They often are deliberate bait to lure you into LS.
-If you are set on getting those modules, choose a ship and a fit that enables you as safely as possible to get in and out.
-Its quite rare that a module is cheaper in LS, than in Jita. Use evemarket or other websites to see universal price listinga.
Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
#19 - 2016-12-17 16:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Fleshbits L'Splatter wrote:
Everything I am reading explains how to get around gatecamps using a cloak. Well, noobs don't have a cloak. Are we expected to sit in highsec for months while our skills train and we save up for a cloaking ship?

What can we do to avoid camp deaths when trying to get to losec?

I saw a text article that seemed to claim we could get through a gate camp in a fast ship or a frigate and that we shouldn't die unless on autopilot. I sure couldn't. If that claim is true, is there a video somewhere that will hold a noob's hand through the process?

Short Answer: You are expected to die. This is Eve after all.

Long answer: Well, if you are in Nullsec, alone in a ship without a cloak and you run into a gatecamp, you may just be out of luck. This does not happen only to newbies, but older players as well. Especially if I want my ship to be able to do something quickly and effectively, then I may not be able to fit a cloak, or an MWD/MJD, depending on the task and the ship. So I may get caught in a camp every now and then - those things just happen.

Lowsec is slightly different: There are no bubbles in low, so unless you are pointed, you can just warp off. So the only thing you need to make sure of is, that you don't get pointed. The easiest way to achieve this would be to get a fast frigate and put Inertial Stabilizers/Nanofiber Internal Structures/Carbonfiber Engine Housings/Low Friction Nozzle Joints in until you get an align time of less than 2 seconds. With that, you are *almost* uncatchable. The same thing works in nullsec as well, but only with an Interceptor, as those are immune to bubbles.

In any case, you need a ship fit for the task, and it may then not be very good at doing something other than crashing gatecamps. You may be able to counteract this by refitting once you have arrived at your destination, either at a station or using a mobile depot.

Even with the metod mentioned above, there is a form of gatecamp, that will still get you, and that is the Discocamp. A Discocamp is when a ship (typically a battleship) is already waiting for you to land on the gate with a full rack of smartbombs in its high slots. No matter if you are a veteran or a newbie, whether you have a cloak, MWD, Interceptor or CovOps, you will literally die in a fire once you land on grid.

That's why the best ship to not only avoid gatecamps in Eve is still the friendship. Just bring a scout along to check what's ahead of you, and you won't ever run into a camp. :)
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#20 - 2016-12-17 17:25:40 UTC
Unless they have an instalock tackle ship or similar you should be able to warp or MWD back to gate/out of range in a frig - while it isn't uncommon to find such a setup camping the main pipes its a lot less common on the side routes.

While time consuming its often possible to find a way into low via wormholes as well - in the past I've not had to spend all that long but I might have got a bit lucky.
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