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To CCP about Alpha vs Omega accounts

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Author
Agony Etain
Black Thorn Elites of EVE
#1 - 2016-12-14 03:17:56 UTC
I've been playing EVE on and off for quite a long time. Started as far back as 2006, played on and off. I couldn't always afford the monthly payment as a kid, and when I got older, I didn't always have the time to really put into it to get enjoyment from it.

This was, and is a problematic issue with EVE. For the vast majority of people, if you don't have time to no-life EVE, there's alot less to do, and you'll be earning far less, due to the golden rule of EVE. Never fly what you can't easily replace.

This creates a "soft cap" so to speak. I had the ability to fly Dreadnoughts, could fly a fully tweaked out tier 3 ship if I wanted, but simply didn't have the time. I barely could afford a Battleship for the time I could invest, so, that didn't matter I had the skills up to those points. Battle-cruisers were where I was stuck.

That in and of itself is fine, but we'll come to that point again later.

With the game opening up to "Free to play", I thought I'd give it a go during a point in my life I simply don't have a ton of time to invest. So consider this feedback and worries from a long term EVE player, stuck in a Free to play new to eve situation.



My first question is this to CCP... What is the REASON for alpha clones? Atm it feels like an advanced version of a free trial with no time limit. This to me is a massive mistake. One which I'll explain in a bit.

Would it not be better to make Alpha Clones be able to enjoy the game, while being a small driving force in the economy and community of EVE Online, while still having soft, and hard limitations to the account? Because that's not what Alpha Clone is atm.

One overwhelming point about EVE, is that it really wasn't focused for PvE. Sure you have Incursions, rats in belts, some really simplistic, boring, uhhh what was that mission about? ah this mission again for the 9th time in a row, PvE missions to run, etc. All of it was more of a time sink, or way to net some more credits for your PvP fit.

Non PvP players could enjoy crafting, mining, exploring, but again, never focused much on PvE combat.

The new story new players are put into is a refreshing nice change, that does teach new players about EVE far better than the no direction, vague descriptions it used to have, but once that's over.. there again is almost nothing for an alpha player to really do that will Keep them playing.

This is the main point I wish to discuss, and why this is.

CCP I believe you should be giving alpha players enough to feel like they've been given a good idea of the game in whatever direction they want to go, but put the stop there. Again I'll explain this later.



First though. The objective I believe CCP is missing out on. The objective for Alpha clones I think should be this.

"To be a limited account, with limited accessibility, but at the same time allow a player to experience EVE in all its forms to a limiting degree, and have enough substance to ensure continued enjoyment of EVE, and be an active member of the in-game community and economy".

If this is done fairly, and accurately, not only would high sec, and low sec space, become more populated, but we'd see the player base rise as well, which is always a good thing, as that puts more money in CCP's pocket once those F2P players decide to use the store a bit here and there for ship skins, and cosmetics.

But how to get to that point?



PvE Combat, Missions, and Stories

This is the biggest flaw, and issue in EVE. This has been sorely out dated, and lacking behind everything else EVE has to offer. It's a dated, relic of a mechanic balanced for how the game used to be played 10 years ago, but not today.

Other MMO's which offer PvE content far out shine EVE in this dept, and the few things which are available and interesting such as Incursions, etc. are far out of reach of Alpha Clone's reach.

If we step back from Incursions and look at the Missions, and storylines, the more branching, and advanced storylines are agian, out of reach of Alpha Clone's ability due to being limited by skills and ships to such an abusive extent.

This forces a player who's more interested in PvE, and experiencing the lore and world of EVE Online and not PvP, to be seriously gimped right out of the gate. This isn't going to make them want to spend money to open up the game, when they don't even know what everything behind the pay wall has to offer.



My suggestion is to really focus on the PvE. Add new missions across the board for ALL professions, Mining, Hauling, Combat, Exploration, etc. and add new main story lines with high risk, high reward, that Alpha Clones are able to do as well.

Also go more in depth with explaining influence, and reputation.



Professions, Skills and Ships

What can an Alpha player do? well, not much as it turns out. Simple PvE missions, some of the simple starter story lines, maybe get into a little PvP match with another alpha clone, and do some simple trading as a trader. that's about it.

When I first jumped in, I wasn't expecting to be able to fly my Hulk with max mining skills like I had. But I was expecting something.

Now this is where I go into the explanation of giving Alpha players a "good taste" of the experience,, leaving them yearning for more and that's where you put the stop.

Using my Mining Character as an example., Alpha characters can only ever train into the simple little mining frigate the Vulture. This gives you a tiny taste of mining, but before the player can even truly experience what its like being a useful member of the industry economy of EVE, you've already stopped them right at the entrance and demanding money to experience more.

-Continued-

Agony Etain
Black Thorn Elites of EVE
#2 - 2016-12-14 03:18:14 UTC

Opening Alpha up to the Mining Barges, and putting the mining skills to max of tier 3 across the board for both industry and Mining ships will allow an Alpha player to get a good idea of what Mining is, how Industry works, and if they want to pay to continue. The tier 2 versions are a huge leap forward, and being able to upgrade further of tier 4 and 5 skills is a huge boon to mining output, etc.

Industry like-wise, allow them to build the ships that Alpha players are able to fly, and some basic forms of research. and blueprinting. Allow them to experience, and figure out what it has to offer.

For many players this will result in a much higher feeling of "I want more". You're stopping them before they can get to the point of "I really like this", and without "I really like this" there is no "I want more", and without "I want more" There is no player in your game, and no money in your pocket.


Conclusion:

Putting these changes into the game, i feel would be a huge boost to both the longevity of EVE Online, the growth of the player base, in-game economy, and community, and of course the added bonus of more money being put at CCP.
This doesn't effect players already paying, nor does it retract from the hardcore players. However it is an oppertunity I feel is being missed.
The PvE Content, Storylines, and Missions, as well as opening up all professions to the first "tier" of being able to do them comfortably, and being able to experience and learn what this game really has to offer, before putting up the wall, will result in more people feeling the "I want more".
With this, even for the players who can't, or don't want to pay, will still have enough at their disposal to still enjoy EVE online, and continue adding more life, and diversity to the game, without giving them too much, or retracting from the paid accounts and what they're worth.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#3 - 2016-12-14 03:20:42 UTC
TL;DR?

I'm guessing it's along the lines of "give alphas more free stuff".
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#4 - 2016-12-14 04:20:07 UTC
'give them a hand and they'll take your whole arm'

just noticed that since Ascension, there's a lot of 'EvE experts' like the OP here, popping out. What?

Just Add Water

Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
#5 - 2016-12-14 04:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rin Vocaloid2
Where the hell were you over a month ago when CCP asked for your input on how Alpha clones should be implemented?

PS: I started back in 2008 and dove into a wide range of professions. Fleet roams, mining, mission running, suicide ganking, market trading, and even just solo roaming in low-sec. From what I see, Alpha clones can still do a lot of those things even now. Don't see where Alpha clones are missing out.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2016-12-14 04:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
*fills up fresh bottles of whine and tearz*

Keep going OP. I am not done yet!


Scipio Artelius wrote:
TL;DR?

I'm guessing it's along the lines of "give alphas more free stuff".

Pretty much.

OP wants to be able to do "high-level" PvE (see: Incursions and such) with an Alpha clone.
He also complains that PvE is needed to make EVE great

And he justifies it with the usual trope of "think of the 'casual' players."

On that note...
Agony Etain wrote:
What is the REASON for alpha clones? Atm it feels like an advanced version of a free trial with no time limit.

Yes... that is exactly what an Alpha is; an unlimited trial.
Anything else you heard is pure marketing spin and/or uninformed opinion.

Please note that if a non-paying player could be as effective as (or close to) a paying player there would be no reason to upgrade to a paying account (which is the goal).
Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
#7 - 2016-12-14 04:46:26 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
*fills up fresh bottles of whine and tearz*

Keep going OP. I am not done yet!


Scipio Artelius wrote:
TL;DR?

I'm guessing it's along the lines of "give alphas more free stuff".

Pretty much.

OP wants to be able to do "high-level" PvE (see: Incursions and such) with an Alpha clone.
He also complains that PvE is needed to make EVE great

And he justifies it with the usual trope of "think of the 'casual' players."

On that note...
Agony Etain wrote:
What is the REASON for alpha clones? Atm it feels like an advanced version of a free trial with no time limit.

Yes... that is exactly what an Alpha is; an unlimited trial.
Anything else you heard is pure marketing spin and/or uninformed opinion.

Please note that if non-playing could be as effective (or close to) as a paying player there would be no reason to upgrade to a paying account (which is the goal).


Pretty much this.

Alpha clones are ok the way they are. Like I said, they can participate in many parts of what makes Eve great. Suicide ganking, market trading, fleet roams, faction warfare, mission running (with a buddy if running higher level missions), etc. The fact that an alpha clone can fly a cruiser and industrial means that the clone can do a lot of things in Eve.
Xiu Kahn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-12-14 05:27:06 UTC
I think the Alpha Clones are fine for being an indefinite trial. I think marketing as FTP is disingenuous. But it did get my attention. My account was so old I had no name upon return.

I think Alpha state makes for nice utility characters and a chance to get basic core skills under your belt before plunking down any money or serious time. I'm casual and a couple of runabout toons is fine ATM. Also my older more skilled characters get the benefit of adding skills to some areas that were neglected long ago, again without paying to train or feeling like I've wasted days of subscription on a low level skill.

My one recommendation is they allow 1 more racial ship to be trained for a fee like the MCT Plex. I would pay a small premium to fly 2x types of ships. I think it adds more utility to the character and creates more relevant income on the CCP side. It could be a nice reward for mastering the basic racial line you started with as well as allow some of us ancient ones that woke up in disallowed ships to journey on.

Not sure EVE as is will survive long term without serious mindful change to some of its core mechanics. The PC is no longer pre eminent for gaming. EVE is weighed by the amount of information and knowledge required and its own inherent limitations as far as accessibility. You know as an Omega I would gladly pay to be able to adjust my skills from a tablet or smartphone and execute trades in realtime. The world is mobile, fast, casual and icon based. All the things EVE is not for now.

So we'll see how this Alpha gambit goes.

"The maze is not mean't for you."

Agony Etain
Black Thorn Elites of EVE
#9 - 2016-12-14 06:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Agony Etain
ShahFluffers wrote:
*fills up fresh bottles of whine and tearz*

Keep going OP. I am not done yet!


Scipio Artelius wrote:
TL;DR?

I'm guessing it's along the lines of "give alphas more free stuff".

Pretty much.

OP wants to be able to do "high-level" PvE (see: Incursions and such) with an Alpha clone.
He also complains that PvE is needed to make EVE great

And he justifies it with the usual trope of "think of the 'casual' players."

On that note...
Agony Etain wrote:
What is the REASON for alpha clones? Atm it feels like an advanced version of a free trial with no time limit.

Yes... that is exactly what an Alpha is; an unlimited trial.
Anything else you heard is pure marketing spin and/or uninformed opinion.

Please note that if non-playing could be as effective as (or close to) a paying player there would be no reason to upgrade to a paying account (which is the goal).


That's a whole lot of reading comprehension failure. Did you even read? Or did you skim and think that was enough? Here's a tip:

1) I never said Alpha clones should be able to do incursions.

2) I never said PvE alone is needed to make EVE great.

3) I know it's an unlimited trial, which is unfortunately not going to do jack for anyone or anything in the long run. It may bring a few loose threads back, but that's it.

If you'd actually read, it's quite obvious I'm talking about a missed opportunity of CCP's. There are plenty of MMO's that have a free and monhtly sub choice where the free version doesn't retract from the extra quality and extra glitter of the paid subscription option, giving the paid version well worth the money, while not limiting the free version too much either.

The If you'd actually read, again, you'd also see that I think what you think. Give too much and the reason to upgrade won't exist, which is not what i'm doing, or wanting.

TLDR: read the damn post, or don't post at all.
Agony Etain
Black Thorn Elites of EVE
#10 - 2016-12-14 06:30:37 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
'give them a hand and they'll take your whole arm'

just noticed that since Ascension, there's a lot of 'EvE experts' like the OP here, popping out. What?


I'm an EVE expert? Well not what I'd call myself, but thanks for the compliment ^.^ /sarcasm

Seriously though, never called myself an expert by any means.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#11 - 2016-12-14 06:39:42 UTC
don't kid oursleves OP, you and i both know that whatever crap you posted in here won't happen anymore.

this issue have been discussed enough already and your 'bright' ideas are actual not.

so you either sub up to omega or not. quit or play. it's up to you.

don't worry about EvE, we got this. infact, in my corp alone, most of our newbro recruits have already upgraded. just worry about yourself, ok?

Just Add Water

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#12 - 2016-12-14 06:39:57 UTC
Agony Etain wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
*fills up fresh bottles of whine and tearz*

Keep going OP. I am not done yet!


Scipio Artelius wrote:
TL;DR?

I'm guessing it's along the lines of "give alphas more free stuff".

Pretty much.

OP wants to be able to do "high-level" PvE (see: Incursions and such) with an Alpha clone.
He also complains that PvE is needed to make EVE great

And he justifies it with the usual trope of "think of the 'casual' players."

On that note...
Agony Etain wrote:
What is the REASON for alpha clones? Atm it feels like an advanced version of a free trial with no time limit.

Yes... that is exactly what an Alpha is; an unlimited trial.
Anything else you heard is pure marketing spin and/or uninformed opinion.

Please note that if non-playing could be as effective as (or close to) a paying player there would be no reason to upgrade to a paying account (which is the goal).


That's a whole lot of reading comprehension failure. Did you even read? Or did you skim and think that was enough? Here's a tip:

1) I never said Alpha clones should be able to do incursions.

2) I never said PvE alone is needed to make EVE great.

3) I know it's an unlimited trial, which is unfortunately not going to do jack for anyone or anything in the long run. It may bring a few loose threads back, but that's it.

If you'd actually read, it's quite obvious I'm talking about a missed opportunity of CCP's. There are plenty of MMO's that have a free and monhtly sub choice where the free version doesn't retract from the extra quality and extra glitter of the paid subscription option, giving the paid version well worth the money, while not limiting the free version too much either.

The If you'd actually read, again, you'd also see that I think what you think. Give too much and the reason to upgrade won't exist, which is not what i'm doing, or wanting.

TLDR: read the damn post, or don't post at all.


Get out. Once again, we have an example of "these other games do this so EVE should too," and once again another twit who wants to make EVE like everything else. EVE is nothing like everything else, which is why its free-2-play system is modelled around the shareware system, but with its own unique implementation.

As for this crap about it only bringing back older players, that's simply not true. I've seen a lot of new alpha's sub over the past few weeks. Maybe before you assert stupid things like this in the future, you can provide us with some data that proves said assertion. Otherwise, get out.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#13 - 2016-12-14 06:42:43 UTC
Agony Etain wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
'give them a hand and they'll take your whole arm'

just noticed that since Ascension, there's a lot of 'EvE experts' like the OP here, popping out. What?


I'm an EVE expert? Well not what I'd call myself, but thanks for the compliment ^.^ /sarcasm

Seriously though, never called myself an expert by any means.


with that wall of text and alot of 'suggestions', you are definitely posing yourself as one.

what, do you really think you are the first one who cried for alphas to be able to fly barges? What?

Just Add Water

Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#14 - 2016-12-14 06:51:09 UTC
Agony Etain wrote:


That's a whole lot of reading comprehension failure. Did you even read? Or did you skim and think that was enough? Here's a tip:

1) I never said Alpha clones should be able to do incursions.


Yes you did.

"Other MMO's which offer PvE content far out shine EVE in this dept, and the few things which are available and interesting such as Incursions, etc. are far out of reach of Alpha Clone's reach. "


Agony Etain wrote:
2) I never said PvE alone is needed to make EVE great.


It's the main focus of your entire argument, and is a point you raise constantly.

"One overwhelming point about EVE, is that it really wasn't focused for PvE...but again, never focused much on PvE combat....My suggestion is to really focus on the PvE...Opening Alpha up to the Mining Barges...The PvE Content, Storylines, and Missions"

Agony Etain wrote:
3) I know it's an unlimited trial, which is unfortunately not going to do jack for anyone or anything in the long run. It may bring a few loose threads back, but that's it.


It's designed to give people more than just 2 weeks with their toons. That's it. It isn't Free-to-Play in the standard sense, because EVE was not designed from the ground up to be F2P in any way.

Agony Etain wrote:
If you'd actually read, it's quite obvious I'm talking about a missed opportunity of CCP's. There are plenty of MMO's that have a free and monhtly sub choice where the free version doesn't retract from the extra quality and extra glitter of the paid subscription option, giving the paid version well worth the money, while not limiting the free version too much either.


Those games are built from the ground up to be like that. EVE isn't. Stop comparing Apples to Hippos and whining that you can't take a bite out of a Hippo.

Agony Etain wrote:
The If you'd actually read, again, you'd also see that I think what you think. Give too much and the reason to upgrade won't exist, which is not what i'm doing, or wanting.


The irony of that comment is literally painful.




"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#15 - 2016-12-14 07:02:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
wrong thread.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Bjorn Tyrson
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2016-12-14 07:08:59 UTC
so what aspects of the game are you actually prevented from taking part in? even if it is in a limited way (which was the entire point of the alphas)

PVE: well you can fly up to cruisers, and you can use meta mods which are almost as good as their t2 variants, sure you might not be able to do lvl 4's solo (although who knows that might be possible) but you can still do lvl 3's. want to do more, find people to fly with or upgrade.

Market trading: base out of a market citadel and you can trade pretty much as well as any omega player can. probably one of the easiest ways to get the plex to omega your account.

Mining: Don't under estimate the power of a venture. particularly doing ninja gas cloud huffing etc. no your not gonna be raking in the isk that omegas can... but with fleet boosts you can make a decent amount. so get out there and make friends, or upgrade to omega.

Industry: okay this one you may have a bit of a point on, its going to be hard for a high-sec industrialist to make much money as an alpha... but then again its tough even for omegas to make a profit without having a POS. although with the new EC's that could change. make a friend with an EC you can use, or use one of the public ones.

pvp: remember those meta modules I mentioned for pve... yeah those still work for pvp. in fact from a cost to benefit ratio many of them are actually preferred. yeah you might struggle a bit in solo pvp against omega pilots. but there is absolutely nothing stopping you from fleeting up. so get out there and make some friends to fly with, or upgrade to omega.

are you seeing a pattern here? eve IS NOT a solo game, sure you can play it solo, but it has been proven time and time again that the #1 factor when it comes to player retention is their interaction with the community. and that is PRECISELY what the alpha clones are designed to do. it is an unlimited free trial that gives people time to get their feet wet, and to meet people to play with and get involved in the community without the constraints of having to worry about paying every month.
and from that standpoint alphas have been a resounding success.

Alpha clones let you experience and play the game in a limited capacity, but the REAL game of eve is about the players. and there are zero limitations placed on that.
Salvos Rhoska
#17 - 2016-12-14 07:40:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
A month old market alpha probably has more market related SP than I do :(

Mining Alphas will see the devastating rate Omegas empty rocks at, and will thus be encouraged to go Omega.
PvP Alphas will get tired of being frequently outskilled/outshipped, and want some of that.
PvE Alphas will see BS clearing out L4s and posts on blitzing income, and want some of that.

PI is necessarily excluded, as the result wouls otherwise be potentially thousands of PI Alpha alts flooding the market.

The less restrictions there are on Alphas, the more rich vets will exploit them.
That could potentially snowball in undesirable ways.

It has always been necessary to sub in EVE to get full access.
I see no reason how this is any different now.

It was nice to stack "Recruit a Friend" with free trial days before, but that too required subbing.

Now you can play EVE for free, indefinitely, on as many alts as you want, doing whatever content you want with what you have available.

Sometime in the future, who knows, CCP might raise the cap on alphas or reduce restrictions.
But that would be a really really bad indicator that CCP is winding down development and resigning the game to zombification.
marVLs
#18 - 2016-12-14 08:37:30 UTC
Well PVE needs some biiig changes and content packs because it's soooo bad, and its main reason for newbies to stay longer and try other things. No wonder most of players stop playing if they need to do same missions over and over again and again just to get some ISK... ( yeah yeah there's other ways but let's be realistic that's the 90% of new players)
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#19 - 2016-12-14 08:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
marVLs wrote:
Well PVE needs some biiig changes and content packs because it's soooo bad, and its main reason for newbies to stay longer and try other things. No wonder most of players stop playing if they need to do same missions over and over again and again just to get some ISK... ( yeah yeah there's other ways but let's be realistic that's the 90% of new players)


Citation needed.

The reason PVE in this game is generic and repetitive is because it's not the focus of this game, PVP is. If the PVE is too interesting, it would divert people from the PVP. The PVP itself needs to be the most interesting thing to do to drive more PVP. And it is.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Val Kaleth
Realm of Mischief
#20 - 2016-12-14 09:00:42 UTC
I am also a returning player, and I am returning because of Alpha actually. I cannot always drop the giant wad of cash it would take to keep all my EVE accounts up anymore, so I moved away from it in favor of games I only need 1 account for. Now it isn't that I do not feel the game is worth it, because it was well worth every subscription I paid for in the past. BUT having alpha lets me stay in the game easier and choose accounts to omega or PLEX.

I am thankful for what is offered and enjoy what I have. In the end I see alpha as being the perfect way to keep me interested in the game and encourage me to spend my money here rather than elsewhere. CCP just got more money from me this way than they would have keeping the old model.

They give alphas more than enough to experience the game in most ways, and it holds back enough to give you the urge to pay. It is also careful not to give alphas things that can be exploited easily. This model gives people unlimited time to test out the game without feeling the pressure of paying for something they may not like, and we all know that EVE can take time to learn. So I hope this helps get people really into the game and interested in paying for a subscription that supports the game. (added PvE would help this a LOT)

I tried to read this entire thread but didn't, so I apologize if this was already said, but I felt the need to jump in and say it. I missed out on a lot of EVE because of feeling like I needed ALL my accounts active to enjoy it, and now that is not as big of an issue. I am also getting into it much deeper than I ever did because I no longer have the fear of "yikes I may not be able to keep paying all my subs"

Feel free to join me in game in the "Realm of Mischief" channel.

🇮🇪

disappears in a cloud of rust

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