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Quick Thoughts On M-OEE8:

Author
TackyTachy1
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-12-10 21:09:18 UTC
Twenty-three jumps to get there, parked overnight one system away, re-entered and warped to the spot saved the night before, a little less than 200 km from where all the action would be. 700 and some people in system and the system seemed to be handling the load OK.

The objective was to FRAPS capture as much of it all as I could then slice and dice until I got a decent video and some cool screen grabs and, quite frankly, I accomplished that, up to a point.

But shortly before the anticipated denouement, with over five thousand folks either kibitzing or fighting, the system pretty well gave up the ghost and crashed. FPS at the crash was a sad 2 FPS whereas my normal in game frame rate per second is 60 FPS.

System Local was basically ****** Central and it took a while before I finally figured out who were the attackers, and that was only after using the "Watch" command off the menu. I never did figure out who, if any, ships were defenders. I know there were some really big bubbles off the aft end of the Keepstar but again, I'm unsure if either attackers or defenders.

I was just before warping for the gate thence home when the system crashed and I still have a Nemesis wandering about lost somewhere in M-OEE8. I made one attempt to log back on but no go, so shut down the gaming command center only to discover that the Eve home page was messed up, displaying a large image with links to Valkyrie, Gunjack and Eve but covering the normal links to the forums. But I was able to drop to the bottom of the page and jump about until I could jump to the forums.

Biggest regret was never got to see the big "KaBoom!" when the Keepstar finally blew. Matter of fact, I don't know yet whether the defenders managed to save the day or did it, infact, go "KaBoom!". Find out later, I reckon.

I think the biggest problem was CCP hyped the moment to the point where people like me flocked to see something that under normal circumstances they would never see. Everybody plays the game their own little unique way and as for me, I know I'll never participate in a major fleet action.

In a situation like this perhaps the best way is to not yell it from the rooftops but just let it happen, then capture the action, edit it then release it to the masses. I've always felt that CCP's video trailers portrayal of big fights such as this was a bit of a bait and switch in that no, these big fights are not the norm. The norm is a bit of a plod, making the money to buy the ships, then fit the ships, then go looking for a fight. The plod works for people like me, but instant gratification junkies will ultimately be disappointed.

All in all, if nothing else, it was a learning experience. Plus, I got some really good shots of a Leviathan at work, until she got blown up or jumped clear, not sure about how all that cyno stuff works, anyways. And just the image of a zillion ships storming the castle was cool. Will I do it again? Probably not, but it was not wasted time, as it taught me sort of how these things work.

Now all I gotta do is retrieve my Nemesis.

Forum Rep for a bunch of characters, couple corps and one seriously Lost In Space multiboxer.

Ieterse Seeta
REACT0R
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-12-10 21:24:36 UTC
TackyTachy1 wrote:
Biggest regret was never got to see the big "KaBoom!" when the Keepstar finally blew. Matter of fact, I don't know yet whether the defenders managed to save the day or did it, infact, go "KaBoom!". Find out later, I reckon.

Are you from the future? The fight is still going on, it's at 50% structure atm.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#3 - 2016-12-10 21:25:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
The attacking fleet has overwhelming force.

The defenders formed, but stood down and went home.

Attack is still happening. With the damage cap requiring a minimum of 30 minutes + TiDi = potentially up to 300 minutes if full TiDi the whole time. It hasn't been, but it will still be 3-4 hours of attack at least.
Drunk Gatekeeper
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-12-10 21:51:46 UTC
Ieterse Seeta wrote:
TackyTachy1 wrote:
Biggest regret was never got to see the big "KaBoom!" when the Keepstar finally blew. Matter of fact, I don't know yet whether the defenders managed to save the day or did it, infact, go "KaBoom!". Find out later, I reckon.

Are you from the future? The fight is still going on, it's at 50% structure atm.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

Fight is over. But we're still watching it happen.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#5 - 2016-12-10 22:52:48 UTC
The important parts to remember is that citadel timers are still completely broken under Tidi with no indication of them getting fixed any time soon and that CCP has to manually craft the killmails for the citadels in these fights because they're broken too.

Also that citadels are so excessively powerful that ridiculous, sanity defying tactics or overwhelming superiority are required to destroy them, then though they cost only a tiny fraction of the value of the ships required to destroy them and the assets inside are not at risk.
Mister Burns
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-12-10 22:56:00 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
the assets inside are not at risk.

Why did CCP do it like this? Cry It's not in the spirit of the game! Cry
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#7 - 2016-12-10 23:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
CCP forgot what the spirit of the game is years ago.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#8 - 2016-12-10 23:07:57 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
CCP forgot what the spirit of the game if years ago.

It's a pity in a situation where the timers are so long, asset safety still exists.

Should just all be like in j-space. If players can't evacuate their stuff, then bad luck.
TackyTachy1
Doomheim
#9 - 2016-12-11 00:57:38 UTC
Finally achieved successful logon, my Nemesis was in warp but I was able to return to my observation point and take a look around. Everything was painfully slow and jittery, TiDi was at 10 % and no fun. There was still a helluva fight going on but the future looked like long drawn out blob so I jumped out. At that it was a chancy thing, the gate was camped with about a zillion ships, most wearing red strips, but I held cloak until gated and I suspect that under TiDi it would be difficult or impossible to target lock a cloaked ship inbound to jump.

Still over 4700 ships in system; lucky to get by with just 10 % TiDi.

I agree with the poster that said this was not in the spirit of the game, or not in the spirit of the game I play. Realistically I know I'd never qualify as a fleet commander but I'm too damned old to allow some kid to tell me where to go and what to do when I got there.

Positive takeaways: Got me some pretty cool video before things went slow and it confirmed the feeling that large fleet battles were not something that I'd ever want to do. And this one time was enough, no more observing, either.

My Nemesis cooling her heels in station one jump out, looked like too many possible gate camps on the way home. Quite a few jumps more through the green/yellow route than the red route, give these folks a few more hours before I bring the Nemesis home.

Forum Rep for a bunch of characters, couple corps and one seriously Lost In Space multiboxer.

Parnassius Apollo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-12-11 16:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Parnassius Apollo
My thoughts on the event:

It started pretty good, I had all ready for the party: the drinks, the food, the ship, the modules, the stogie, my index on the screen shot capture button and then all of a sudden half way through the event... ka-boooom !!! no, not the Keepstar explosion, but CCP realizing that something is going horribly wrong on their servers.

So they kicked in their "time slowdown" engine in order to allocate to themselves all necessary server CPU and bandwidth. Why ? because they need to be able to record the event and being able to produce nice e-flyers and printouts for their next marketing event. Covering up the screw-up and as usual, leaving us, the players and the payers in the mud.

So no, it was not your computer neither mine, neither the computers of 99% of the players participating, but instead it was clearly a shame and an embarrassing moment for CCP ! Their servers did not keep up with the load, above 3000K users in a system and their servers can't handle ! This game is not keeping up with the hype for large battles.

I was like you, sitting there at a blank screen at 0.2 FPS, looking at all those stupid blue loot containers, thinking that I am paying for this game for the hope to get into a large size battle and then this screw up ! I am listening to the hype the CCP CTO is saying about avoiding downloads and on-line games and look at that ! WTF.

I had a 200Mbs Internet line for this event, I was there in the middle of the battle and my modules no longer worked throwing internal EVE system errors after errors, the WARP took ages to complete, half of the stuff did not appear on screen sometimes even all ships were gone. At one point I was stuck in a fight at 0.2 FPS and after 20 mins looking at my ship not moving forward, so I had to kill my EVE client, re-log in and that took ages as well. Poouah !

Keepstar explosion ? what explosion ?? The Keepstar was destroyed but 90% of players present could not see it LOL ! Only those looking at CCP Twitch channel could see it, WTF. Is this gaming, watching Twitch channels ??

A total miss on my side.

Shame on you CCP, after all those years CCP is not even able to size their servers properly for big events and do some minimum Capacity Management, what a lack of competence. I mean is this rocket science to properly calculate the necessary bandwidth for such cases ? It is time to hand over this game to a company who can handle.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-12-11 16:53:11 UTC
Parnassius Apollo wrote:
My thoughts on the event:

It started pretty good, I had all ready for the party: the drinks, the food, the ship, the modules, the stogie, my index on the screen shot capture button and then all of a sudden half way through... ka-boooom !!! no, not the Keepstar explosion, but CCP realizing that something is going horribly wrong on their servers.

So they kicked in their "time slowdown" engine in order to allocate to themselves all necessary server CPU and bandwidth. Why ? because they need to be able to record the event and being able to produce nice e-flyers and printouts for their next marketing event. Covering up the screw-up and as usual, leaving us, the players and the payers in the mud.

So no, it was not your computer neither mine, neither the computers of 99% of the players participating, but instead it was clearly a shame and an embarrassing moment for CCP ! Their servers did not keep up with the load, above 3000K users in a system and their servers can't handle ! This game is not keeping up with the hype for large battles.

I was like you, sitting there at a blank screen at 0.2 FPS, looking at all those stupid blue loot containers, thinking that I am paying for this game for the hope to get into a large size battle and then this screw up ! I am listening to the hype the CCP CTO is saying about avoiding downloads and on-line games and look at that ! WTF.

I had a 200Mbs Internet line for this event, I was there in the middle of the battle and my modules no longer worked throwing internal EVE system errors after errors, the WARP took ages to complete, half of the stuff did not appear on screen sometimes even all ships were gone. At one point I was stuck in a fight at 0.2 FPS and after 20 mins looking at my ship not moving forward, so I had to kill my EVE client, re-log in and that took ages as well. Poouah !

Keepstar explosion ? what explosion ?? The Keepstar was destroyed but 90% of players present could see it LOL ! Only those looking at CCP Twitch channel could see it, WTF. Is this gaming, watching Twitch channels ??

A total miss on my side.

Shame on you CCP, after all those years CCP is not even able to size their servers properly for big events and do some minimum Capacity Management, what a lack of competence. I mean is this rocket science to properly calculate the necessary bandwidth for such cases ? It is time to hand over this game to a company who can handle.


kek it's not due to bandwidth.............................................................................
someone explain him why CCPlease

i can't do it........ too lazy Cool
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#12 - 2016-12-11 16:54:56 UTC
Parnassius Apollo wrote:
My thoughts on the event:

It started pretty good, I had all ready for the party: the drinks, the food, the ship, the modules, the stogie, my index on the screen shot capture button and then all of a sudden half way through the event... ka-boooom !!! no, not the Keepstar explosion, but CCP realizing that something is going horribly wrong on their servers.

So they kicked in their "time slowdown" engine in order to allocate to themselves all necessary server CPU and bandwidth. Why ? because they need to be able to record the event and being able to produce nice e-flyers and printouts for their next marketing event. Covering up the screw-up and as usual, leaving us, the players and the payers in the mud.

So no, it was not your computer neither mine, neither the computers of 99% of the players participating, but instead it was clearly a shame and an embarrassing moment for CCP ! Their servers did not keep up with the load, above 3000K users in a system and their servers can't handle ! This game is not keeping up with the hype for large battles.

I was like you, sitting there at a blank screen at 0.2 FPS, looking at all those stupid blue loot containers, thinking that I am paying for this game for the hope to get into a large size battle and then this screw up ! I am listening to the hype the CCP CTO is saying about avoiding downloads and on-line games and look at that ! WTF.

I had a 200Mbs Internet line for this event, I was there in the middle of the battle and my modules no longer worked throwing internal EVE system errors after errors, the WARP took ages to complete, half of the stuff did not appear on screen sometimes even all ships were gone. At one point I was stuck in a fight at 0.2 FPS and after 20 mins looking at my ship not moving forward, so I had to kill my EVE client, re-log in and that took ages as well. Poouah !

Keepstar explosion ? what explosion ?? The Keepstar was destroyed but 90% of players present could see it LOL ! Only those looking at CCP Twitch channel could see it, WTF. Is this gaming, watching Twitch channels ??

A total miss on my side.

Shame on you CCP, after all those years CCP is not even able to size their servers properly for big events and do some minimum Capacity Management, what a lack of competence. I mean is this rocket science to properly calculate the necessary bandwidth for such cases ? It is time to hand over this game to a company who can handle.



Quick question:

How many online games have over three thousand players inhabiting one small place simultaneously?

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Maekchu
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2016-12-11 16:58:26 UTC
Mister Burns wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
the assets inside are not at risk.

Why did CCP do it like this? Cry It's not in the spirit of the game! Cry


Vimsy Vortis wrote:
CCP forgot what the spirit of the game is years ago.

People living in null wanted asset safety and thus was born the system we have today.

Feedback was gathered before the implementation of the system. Players wanted the system as it is today, it's not something CCP have forced upon the players.

You can't demand CCP to listen to players and then whine about systems that have been implemented based on player feedback.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#14 - 2016-12-11 17:26:45 UTC
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#15 - 2016-12-11 17:32:05 UTC
TBF EVE does quite well with fleet fights, maybe not in the scale of 3,000+ players in one system, but in the scale that is 'not normal' in other games, EVE handles it pretty smoothly on regular basis.

I haven't been to many, but I've been to a few fleet fights here and there that had a few hundred people in the system/on grid, and it worked mostly well without any issue. And in EVE 50~200 men fights are pretty much a non issue, which is already bigger number than whatever scale of PVP many other online games offer.

And it's pretty normal to see 1,000+ people in Jita, even more now with all these Alpha stuff, and while it does feel a bit laggy at times mostly it's playable. What other MMO do we have that has 1,000 players on the same spot on daily basis.

Sure, EVE can be improved, and any EVE player would be happy to see improvements, but give credit where credit is due, technically, EVE is doing pretty well on these things.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-12-11 22:02:58 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Mister Burns wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
the assets inside are not at risk.

Why did CCP do it like this? Cry It's not in the spirit of the game! Cry


Vimsy Vortis wrote:
CCP forgot what the spirit of the game is years ago.

People living in null wanted asset safety and thus was born the system we have today.

Feedback was gathered before the implementation of the system. Players wanted the system as it is today, it's not something CCP have forced upon the players.

You can't demand CCP to listen to players and then whine about systems that have been implemented based on player feedback.

uhm.... ?

CCP listening to players? Shocked Which years it is?

CCP does what CCP wants. And sometime you can make them change something small and insignificant or return half of removed feature. The main idea of anything comes from CCP

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

TackyTachy1
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-12-12 01:54:54 UTC
Curious to see Eve's marketing trailer showing this fight happening in real time, with bold but breathless Fleet Commanders whipping out orders and minions in their thousands rushing to obey whilst stuff blows up all over the place. Sorry kids, it didn't happen that way, but who's gonna tell the future noobs anything?

Eve is kind of like my former career; got into it for one set of reasons but stayed (30 some years) for completely different reasons. Going on my fourth year in game with no plans to leave but with a certain amount of curiosity concerning the future direction not only of this game but, well, humanity as a whole.

Gonna be a ride, whether good or bad depends on a trainload of variables.

Forum Rep for a bunch of characters, couple corps and one seriously Lost In Space multiboxer.

Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#18 - 2016-12-12 07:55:21 UTC
Mister Burns wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
the assets inside are not at risk.

Why did CCP do it like this? Cry It's not in the spirit of the game! Cry



Because otherwise no one will use them where stations are available.
Irishna Isimazu
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-12-12 08:22:52 UTC
So...

Couple of points.

First of all, CCP doesn't "kick in" TiDi. It's an automatic system that activates when the server can't handle the load of a specific system. All things considered it's actually a fairly elegant solution to handle the problem.

CCP has several dedicated servers for battles like this. If they know in advance (they did in this case) a large battle is going to happen the system where it happens get's it's own server. That server is actually pretty much state of the art. It doesnt get much better then this. (look it up, they posted a devblog about this)

However, there is simply an upper limit of what a server can handle. 5300 players in one system all shooting is well, quite insane. Simply put, there is no server in the world that would be able to handle this unless you're going NSA style cluster. The very fact that this battle -could- happen without the server melting down is nothing short of a miracle and CCP deserves praise for it really.

Everyone knew what was going to happen. Hours and hours of soulcrushing lag, TiDi and 1 fps. It's a given.

Days before the battle several posts have been made pleading that if you weren't directly involved in the battle to please stay away. It wasn't going to be a fun, exiting or engaging game-experience, period. More people in the system that was needed would only add to the lag.

You chose to go there, fully knowing what would happen, you got it. Don't whine.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2016-12-12 09:25:07 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Mister Burns wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
the assets inside are not at risk.

Why did CCP do it like this? Cry It's not in the spirit of the game! Cry



Because otherwise no one will use them where stations are available.

Easily fixable by removing outposts. And you are wrong here: only 'small' and unorganized groups would live out of NPC stations if no asset safety.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

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