These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[December] Excavator Mining Drone yield rebalance

First post First post First post
Author
padraig animal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#241 - 2016-12-08 08:32:15 UTC
eiedu wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

...
  • Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%

...


Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it?


Now there is a good comment, not that i disagree with many others.

32% holy frack, excuse me but why didn't you start out lower, instead of nerfing increasing , this was to be expected but that much indeed give us a math why 32% ?

Anyway this makes me a sad panda.

......

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2016-12-08 09:21:24 UTC
padraig animal wrote:
Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it?


Now there is a good comment, not that i disagree with many others.

32% holy frack, excuse me but why didn't you start out lower, instead of nerfing increasing , this was to be expected but that much indeed give us a math why 32% ?

Anyway this makes me a sad panda.[/quote]
Simple: The Roq should be the command ship of a mining fleet so it has to have a huge bonus but it shouldn't replace the other ships. The actual mining should be done in Hulk or skiffs with the support of the Roq to boost them. Pure Roq fleet in save Sov haven't been the basic idea for the Roq changes.
Vic Jefferson
ElitistOps
Snuffed Out
#243 - 2016-12-08 09:42:12 UTC
For once in a very long while, sov null was actually beginning to offer line members a local income source that was competitive.

Well that's over now. I don't get this at all - on one hand you want sov null to be fertile grounds for player made content, and on the other hand you continually salt the earth by making sure the line member income is totally in the gutter, and not even competitive with high sec. Space that has to be fought for, guarded. cultivated, and endeared to members ought to actually reward them. This is a huge regression back to space being worthless.

Eve is appealing because it is unapologetic by nature. This just seems like a huge abandonment of embracing a good risk/reward paradigm, probably because it was damaging the all important viability of Hi Sec mining. EvE should be a winner take all game, eve has appeal because it doesn't offer runner-up prizes to everyone, success is savored because it is rare, where nerfing nullsec via these sorts of changes just threatens to further exacerbate an already over-level playing field.

When everything is over-safe, over-homogenized, and over-friendly, EvE will be gone.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Apple129
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#244 - 2016-12-08 09:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Apple129
Geronimo McVain wrote:

Simple: The Roq should be the command ship of a mining fleet so it has to have a huge bonus but it shouldn't replace the other ships. The actual mining should be done in Hulk or skiffs with the support of the Roq to boost them. Pure Roq fleet in save Sov haven't been the basic idea for the Roq changes.


Except you're completely wrong... CCP continuously stated that the Rorqual would be the best mining ship in the game. So why the **** would anyone want to use a hulk or a skiff over a rorqual... do you like to handicap yourself?
Felix Crusher
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#245 - 2016-12-08 10:24:13 UTC
The mining yield nerf should be moved to the Industrial Core module, not on the Excavator drones themselves, so mining with the Rorqual not stuck motionless because circumstances dictate won't be a total waste.
Dibz
Doomheim
#246 - 2016-12-08 10:41:37 UTC
Blimey, look at all these angry Goons. A sure sign that the proposed changes must be good for the game.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2016-12-08 11:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Plantgenet
400m/h in mining ores becomes 272m/h; still better than most other activities in eve Big smile
I'll just add the words "Ceteris paribus" to make it sound more economic.
Nefariam Mercator Dodixie
Doomheim
#248 - 2016-12-08 11:16:24 UTC
Nice to see CCP breaking there word AGAIN. Whatever happened to soft tweaks of in-game features. 30% is not even close to a soft Tweak its a sledgehammer that again demotes the rorqual into a quirk item. Except for leaving it as a very capable capital tackler strange that PL use that feature and that doesn't get altered at all. Maybe CCP should stop pretending to be unbiased and just change there name to CCPL Online.
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
Goonswarm Federation
#249 - 2016-12-08 11:20:55 UTC
So many people failing at economics in this thread.

Please try to understand that Ore & Mineral prices are not static, and look at what's already happening to the market on those since the announced changes to the drone mining for the Rorqual.

A 32% yield reduction is definitely not the same as a 32% income reduction.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#250 - 2016-12-08 12:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tarsas Phage wrote:

Here's the thing - I was one of the Rorq pilots on the D-W beacon


"I'm one of the most prolific abusers of this mechanic, so let me tell you why it's not abuse"


It's certainly a more informed vantage point than 99% of GSF who are just parroting the company line. In the mean time, keep jumping your ratting-fit supers into PVP situations whose only hope is to kill the thing tackling it if things go south. Damn, if I can't be more obvious about what the counter is, I'm not sure even CCP can help you. The real irony is that the NPCs you live among have it down better than you.


Silly me, thinking you should be able to kill a tackling ship.

But, hey, I'm sure that five heavy scram, two staggered heavy cap booster rorquals with nos are very neutable, ahyuck.

You seem awfully focused on the fit of the wyvern. Why is that? This is 2016; supercarriers are for ratting.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#251 - 2016-12-08 12:35:36 UTC
Drunk Gatekeeper
Doomheim
#252 - 2016-12-08 12:45:56 UTC
Okay. I'm fine with this, CCP.


IF you return my skill points for absolutely obliterating my investment with this pants on head up-date.


Thank you in advance.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#253 - 2016-12-08 12:56:07 UTC
Most people dont seem to see that rorquals have already devalued them selfs by 40%
so by reducing the yield, the value of ore mined will increase again there for balancing the isk value of the yield reduction out

CCP also stated max yield would be 20,000 per min.

at present its 30,000 m3 per min. which is suprisingly 50% more than what they aimed for.

this "nerf" brings it down to the figures they stated. nothing more
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#254 - 2016-12-08 14:02:42 UTC
Drunk Gatekeeper wrote:
Okay. I'm fine with this, CCP.


IF you return my skill points for absolutely obliterating my investment with this pants on head up-date.


Thank you in advance.


Skill Extractors Bruh. You have lots of time to mine to pay for them
NIJofleyUK
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#255 - 2016-12-08 14:03:13 UTC
Sten Taxi wrote:
Lol, you thought the mining yield is what needed to be nerfed the most?

http://i.imgur.com/DhdAucS.png


Ya, I would agree the tank on the rorqual is a smidge too much, nerf bat incoming soon I'd guess.

Instant Annihilation ::

> Join channel IAPUB for more information! (Recruiting)

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#256 - 2016-12-08 14:10:58 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay.

We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place.

We are planning two connected changes in this release:
  • Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
  • Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components

We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance.

Thanks!


So, some folks in here have claimed that CCP actually intended to release the Rorqual with a max possible yield of 18,000, but actually released with 29,000. Now they are just bringing it back to what was intended. Is this true? If so, why didn't you just say that up front?


Have to swallow their pride and admit they somehow forgot rig existed to come up front with that while just saying it's a nerf don't require to admit something was goofed up.

You'd think that they would have checked all the boxes when making such drastic changes to mining with a change to how boost work and what those boosting ship behavior is changed to...
padraig animal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#257 - 2016-12-08 14:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: padraig animal
Next nerf will be the panic module, because it is a industrial ship now being used in pvp.
Mark my words Roll

Time will tell if it was worth to train and invest in those drones, i expect this will be the first nerf or many others to follow.

:edit: all those claims that the mining yield was to high for what they intended, i didn't read or couldn't find it ? Any written proof of that anywhere ?

Quote:

Geronimo McVain wrote:
padraig animal wrote:
Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it?


Now there is a good comment, not that i disagree with many others.

32% holy frack, excuse me but why didn't you start out lower, instead of nerfing increasing , this was to be expected but that much indeed give us a math why 32% ?

Anyway this makes me a sad panda.

Simple: The Roq should be the command ship of a mining fleet so it has to have a huge bonus but it shouldn't replace the other ships. The actual mining should be done in Hulk or skiffs with the support of the Roq to boost them. Pure Roq fleet in save Sov haven't been the basic idea for the Roq changes.


You didn't read the patch notes i guess or have somewhere along the line lost something. CCP intended the Rorqual to be, as replied after your post the best mining ship in eve, so how can it be only a booster then ? your logic is flawed.
If the actual mining should be done the old way why give us mining drones then ? did you ask that yourself ?

......

Drunk Gatekeeper
Doomheim
#258 - 2016-12-08 14:31:41 UTC
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
Drunk Gatekeeper wrote:
Okay. I'm fine with this, CCP.


IF you return my skill points for absolutely obliterating my investment with this pants on head up-date.


Thank you in advance.


Skill Extractors Bruh. You have lots of time to mine to pay for them



Yeah. Bruh.

I bought skill extractors to get where I am. A lot of them.

I didn't buy a Rorqual or the drones yet, so no - I can't mine back my investment. And I certainly won't make that extra investment now.
Drecko Valdez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2016-12-08 14:41:04 UTC
Anyone who mined with a well-skilled rorq these past weeks knows it was broken. It mined too much. Everyone was jumping on the bandwagon, injecting mass amounts of sp to get in on the crazy amounts of ore the rorq was able to pull in. If you injected sp to jump on the bandwagon you have only yourself to blame.

I've always loved the rorq and been a rorq pilot for a long time, but in its current form it's a bit broken. Let's be honest, 400-450 mill per hour mining is a bit much. Now it'll only be around 250-300. It's not like its useless. With the panic module and ability mine a lot, and boost its fleet, seems to me only the fairweather rorqs will leave.

I think many of the complaints are from those who hope to keep crazy OP rorq the way it is out of greed. And those that injected SP who are sad the isk train is slowing down.

Also, reducing the cost of the excavator drones is a help to the rorq, since those are vulnerable outside of panic. Hopefully you position your rorq (and reposition as needed) on top of the rocks to shorten their travel time and make it quicker to scoop them.

tl;dr if you're :mad: about the reduction in rorq mining effectiveness you're probably either greedy or misinformed.
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#260 - 2016-12-08 14:44:28 UTC
Drunk Gatekeeper wrote:
Yeah. Bruh.

I bought skill extractors to get where I am. A lot of them.

I didn't buy a Rorqual or the drones yet, so no - I can't mine back my investment. And I certainly won't make that extra investment now.

Feel the pain of all those pilots who trained for tracking titans. Then take a deep breath and get over it.
Or rage quit, I dont care.