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Ransom as a formal mechanic

Author
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-12-07 21:09:01 UTC
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:
LOL!!! Somebody should make a miner sing "I Feel Pretty" from West Side Story. That'd be awesome.


Probably already got done. It either ended with a miner signing and keeping his ship or not signing and not keeping his ship. The reason why the songs never caused huge debates and bans is because it more than likely always just stop there as opposed to an entire laundry list of questionable actions.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#22 - 2016-12-07 21:42:23 UTC
Meh, who cares.

If this ever goes through, just have the checkbox to auto-decline ransoms right next to the auto-decline of duels.

This way I won't miss checking it.

--Gadget... goin' down fightin'!

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#23 - 2016-12-07 21:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Thanks for the feedback guys!

The general consensus/problems I see repeated here are "Okay that's a fine thing you've done here but noobs will misunderstand it, so why bother" or "I'd never pay a ransom, in theory, I'd just selft destruct my ship."

On the noob argument:
Nobody cares. Noobs misunderstand how CONCORD and flagging works to this day and everyone agrees that gaming systems based on the target's ignorance are an important part of what makes EVE what it is. From suicide ganking to public killright baiting to trap contracts in losec stations and so on. The entire point is to make the ransom system visually simple to understand and interact with so that ransoms can be offered, accepted, or rejected extremely quickly. There was never any intent to make the game easier.

On the self destruct argument:
This is a non-issue. If you're self destructing your ship you're effectively refusing to pay a ransom. Anyone willing to self destruct wasn't going to pay anyway, so there's zero interaction between these features in the first place. They've simply saved the guy attempting to extract the ransom a little ammo or time. And that's fine as well. If people never want to pay ransom ever, they are under no obligation to do so, or even respond to ransoms. As Gadget posted there, its as simple as turning off the notifications.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#24 - 2016-12-07 23:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Conogan Blitzkreig
Good idea, I like it. It'll help piracy a lot a think, because it'll legitimize ransoms a lot more. People will accept ransoms more often because they wont be as afraid of Pirates reneging on their honor and just killing them anyways. CCP needs to perfect/preserve/protect all of both the intentional/set up and emergent professions to make this game work.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#25 - 2016-12-08 13:35:18 UTC
Pirates want a better chance of ransom it be on them to make sure thier corp is know for honoring them. That could mean cracking down and weeding out the people who get off on how many posts in C&P they get. Worst case...even giving 2 craps when CEO written saying I paid ransom, your people still killed me. Get known for replies of lol STFU and HFTU...well then when the ransom money is not coming in don't ask why.

Or join pirate crews already famed for this. Some pirate crew I know are no BS honest in their dealings here. Took a long time for them to get here...some I know have been in them. They tend to make sure lol tear collecting on ransom then kill is discouraged.



The invul thing...not of much help. You are getting jumped seconds to minutes later lol. Why I never really saw the point to ransom. Your deal is with those people. Not on the people 3 gates over as you gtfo. And thats assuming same corp...new pirates, no deals of any kind....there you are reransoming. Or...still losing that ship + the lost isk on the prior ransom. But that's me...you got me hard tackled, smacking my ship around and I can't do damn thing really now. Just finish this and lets get on with our nights.
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#26 - 2016-12-08 23:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Zan Shiro wrote:
Pirates want a better chance of ransom it be on them to make sure thier corp is know for honoring them. That could mean cracking down and weeding out the people who get off on how many posts in C&P they get. Worst case...even giving 2 craps when CEO written saying I paid ransom, your people still killed me. Get known for replies of lol STFU and HFTU...well then when the ransom money is not coming in don't ask why.

Or join pirate crews already famed for this. Some pirate crew I know are no BS honest in their dealings here. Took a long time for them to get here...some I know have been in them. They tend to make sure lol tear collecting on ransom then kill is discouraged.



The invul thing...not of much help. You are getting jumped seconds to minutes later lol. Why I never really saw the point to ransom. Your deal is with those people. Not on the people 3 gates over as you gtfo. And thats assuming same corp...new pirates, no deals of any kind....there you are reransoming. Or...still losing that ship + the lost isk on the prior ransom. But that's me...you got me hard tackled, smacking my ship around and I can't do damn thing really now. Just finish this and lets get on with our nights.


Agree with everything you've said, however this whole system is to streamline that process of actually demanding the ransom moreso than it is to ensure the victim gets home safely. The ransom itself becomes a logged event. Pirates who take their reputation seriously like those you mention can see a link to that log if they choose to honor that ransom beyond the terms agreed. No checking intel channels or comms or whatever. If you're a pirate that chooses to garner a "free passage" agreement longer than the short warpout invuln from the ransom party alone, the guy you ransomed can simply ping the ransom mail that was generated, and it's easy to see this happenned one jump over 2 minutes ago.

Making the invuln too powerful simply dumbs down the game, hence the reason the invuln is set up primarily as a guarantor that you'll be able to warp away from the ransomfleet, not that you'll live through the next gate, or be protected from outside forces. Having an invuln that gives the guy being ransomed a reason to consider paying even to entities that are new or unknown to him increases the incentive for groups to offer ransom, and for pilots to accept it.

Nobody on local but the people flashing on your HUD as part of the ransom, and you're one jump away from hisec? You're FAR more likely to accept that ransom if the amount is reasonable (e.g. "we'll let your JF go if you drop your cargo") Even people like yourself or gadget would be much more willing to consider paying out in that situation, and that's kinda the point. It encourages people to offer a fair deal that you have a bulletproof guarantee is fair in certain situations, meaning more potential people involved with that type of play.

Only being ransomed by one guy with three of his corpmates in system unflashy, and you still need to make six more jumps through probable camps? Well **** that, you'd have to be insane to accept or even look at that ransom.

Point is it encourages newer pirates to offer the fair deal because of slightly increased assurances, and lets pirates offer/accept ransoms much faster than the chat methods. In many cases the time it takes to extract ransoms in hostile FW systems and such are simply unmanagable. Every second you spend typing or waiting for that guy to send you ISK is a second his allies could quite easily be scanning down the plex you're in.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#27 - 2016-12-09 00:05:10 UTC
Very good idea. I seriously hope it gets looked at and then implemented.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#28 - 2016-12-14 22:08:32 UTC
OMG save EvE.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#29 - 2016-12-16 04:05:53 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Out of that entire wall of text, you failed to provide one bit of information?

What's wrong with the player derived non-mechanic we currently use for ransoms?



Because why would I trust someone to let me go after I've paid them?

As one who is a fan of trying to ransom targets, it's almost always a no due to lack of a guarantee.

Yes, real world, bla bla. It is an incentive, and would be a good one.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#30 - 2016-12-17 02:15:53 UTC
If CCP doesn't implement this idea, they failz0rz.
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