Player Features and Ideas Discussion

In recent endeavors of trying to theorycraft the next big meta(tm), I noticed an odd little progression gap in the line of logistics. Currently there exist T1/T2/T3 Frigate, Cruiser, and capital logistics. However, many other lines of similarity sized ships (excluding capitals, for now...) have a somewhat hodge-podge progression with wider variety.

Now, before I delve into the meat of the burrito, I can definitely say that there is not an urgent need for the following proposals. However, their potential existence would prove to be an interesting addition to the line of logistics ships. More of a "nice to have" as opposed to a desperate need.

Now on to the proposal.

BLUF: Empire Faction ships bonused for logistics and enjoying the additional fitting choices of faction ships. Also including the possibility for even more unique focus on specific characteristics, so as not to simply be straight-up better than T1 counterparts.

I'll focus on the cruiser class for now. And I'll say it now, this proposal not suggesting pirate faction ships.

So what would seperate these ships from their T1 and T2 counterparts?

First and easiest would be a more generous application of stats and fitting. More hp here, better targeting range there, adjusted slot layouts, etc. these alone can be quite powerful in making a ship more or less worth its cost. Not being T2 also means they have a significantly lower skill-barrier to use, with the somewhat important consideration that alpha-clones will likely be able to utilize them (to a degree). If they follow the usual pattern of faction ships, their cost would be much higher than T1, but significantly lower than T2 (market dependent).

Secondly, the bonuses. Since T1 and T2 mirror each other very closely, it wouldn't be very interesting to simply try and shoehorn their overall effectiveness between the two. So we have the opportunity to change the bonuses and make them unique in their different balances, even the possibility to add new bonuses that make them stand out further from their counterparts.

One final consideration is T3 comparisons. T3 logistic setups are quite fickle snowflakes seeing extremely powerful niche uses on an extremely wide variety of possible fits. However one general trend that they all share is a greater amount of HP repaired with completely unbonused ranges. There are other key factors to consider, but that's deserving of its own analysis article, so I'll leave it to your imaginations.

With that in mind, what might a Empire Faction Logistics look like?

Let's try out Amarr first as an example. For a Amarrian Logistics, the current ships appear to favor durability and collective endurance as their traits. Heavier tanks, cap transfer bonuses, and general size and speed seem to lean towards more durable work as well.

Now specifically looking at very simple (T2 vanilla fits) setups for T1-T2, we can see the following:
56-58km optimals + 16-17km falloff
416-512hp per 6s cycle

(For the sake of the following example we'll assume medium repairs are used)

One trait very distinct to Logistics ships is the overwhelming range bonus to repairs/cap transfers. Even some shield logi can reach out well beyond 100km (granted its extreme falloff).

So, in the spirit of durability and endurance, perhaps we could reduce that range bonus and trade it in for an extra highslot or even a simple repair amount bonus? Unfortunately that might push out the viability of the regular logistics unless there's a significant drawback. So how about cycle time (+cap) reduction and reducing the range to about 20-30km optimal? None of the other logistics have this bonus, and it could bring the hp/s repairs to acceptable levels between T1 and T3. It also uniquely reduces the stress on the problem of gaps between repairs or that initial window of an alpha-strike. Possibly a good option.

If one were to decide that toying with repair/range bonuses proves to be too sensitive in a balance perspective, there are also other options to look at, that still fall within the flavor of amarr and aren't wholly new to the game. We could borrow a raw hp bonus like the navy aug, we could use resists, capacitor bonuses, even cap transfer amount bonuses. Depending on the combinations of reductions and bonuses, you could make a very uniquely strong ship with its own unique set of counter-plays and strengths.

On the flip side, we could also look at a minmatar version:
32km + 48km falloff (ranges are almost identical, so I rounded)
552 - 680hp per 8s cycle

Minmatar traits seem to be speed and self-sufficiency.

So pretty much the same story as above. The only consideration that would be different is that the caldari version (much like the Amarrian) would be flavored towards strong group dependency and overall durability. So we would try to avoid that ok the minmatar logi. Again, considering somewhat stronger base stats we could look at extending the range a little further (not that it needs it), reducing range for better trade-offs, faster cycle times (possible equal trade off in power for simply faster cycles), better cap usage, etc.

And if we were to avoid touching the repairs themselves, we could try to bonus modules like cap batteries, cap injectors, sig radius reduction, prop mod cap consumption/fitting requirements, even possibly looking at self-repair bonuses for smaller gang usage.



So I'll apologize for not going into extreme detail with a full proposal, but I was seriously interested in the idea of a middle-ground logistics ship that could fill areas that don't currently have much in the way of diversity.

Extra thought:

That said, it may be interesting to see some all-in "drone logi" platforms for variance rather than the current gal platforms that have a drone logi bonus that isn't really the focus of the ships. or some kind of reverse smartbomb "burst logi" speed based platform or something.

Really though, in order to expand logi, you'd HAVE to expand its pool of toys to be able to have multiple logi playstyles, which would probably require new/different logi modules.

didn't we just increase RR cycle time?



as for danika's hull rep logi. No there is a reason hull reps are so bad the High and even resist profile you get out of hull using only one mod makes the idea of combat viable local or remote hull reps op

Would be better to give them powerful bonuses to the other side of the Logistics coin...

Introduce a set of high slot remote boosting modules (or make the existing remote boosting modules high slot instead of mid slot). Then introduce four new ships optimized to use these modules.

Gallente - active armor tanked ship with bonus to remote sensor boosting and turret tracking
Caldari - passive shield tanked ship with bonus to remote sensor boosting and missile range
Amarr - passive armor tanked ship with bonus to remote sensor boosting and turret range
Minmatar - active shield tanked ship with bonus to remote sensor boosting and missile precision

Give them all a secondary bonus to appropriate electronic warfare and repair drones.

I would wholly disagree that logistics factors are so simple. There are numerous little different reasons why one might make a choice between two types of logistics.

And even if I were to cede that those three factors were the most important, there's still room for interesting twists and bonuses that make them stand apart. The goal wouldn't be to entirely shake up the meta, but to offer different options that enable more/different tactics and gameplay. Especially if 'new' bonuses are introduced into the line.

Great.

Arguing about healers, and now someone wants to drop totems...

Y'all sure we aren't playing WoW in Space??

--Gadget, For The Horde!

I actually kinda like the idea of a logi sentry. Easy way to balance it would be to make them have the same range but better rep than normal heavy logi drones. The idea here being you are either forced to camp out practically on top of them to get the reps, or you deploy them in a line to create a "healing highway" of sorts. It'd be a great option for a drone bonused logi ship like the Exeq that might want to create a "drone pile" for faster and harder to lock vessels like light tackle inties to fly through that are often impractical to try and maintain locks on due to their speed and how much they pop in and out of lock range from the logi group, while still being able to do the brunt of their work with their normal reps on the main fleet.

Other interesting logi would be single-use deployables with a large burst but very long cycle/reload time. Think of basically a healing version of a light dictor launcher or bomb, with destroyer class ships designed for said modules.