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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Xcom
US Space Force
Black Rose.
#8001 - 2016-12-07 11:34:01 UTC
How many systems are cloak camped at any point? cant be more then 10 system total.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8002 - 2016-12-07 12:01:56 UTC
And baltec1 is shown to be lying yet again, the AFK cloaky camper was not needed for that dread bomb, it was a bait dread that got the Goons to drop which then got counter dropped.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8003 - 2016-12-07 14:33:27 UTC
Xcom
ATK Cloak Camped? 10 sounds about right.
AFK Cloak Camped? At least 300 in null sec alone

Drac
Not only was it not needed - AFK cloaky camping was avoided. The trap would have failed if anyone had been afk cloaky camping in the system.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8004 - 2016-12-07 14:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Wander Prian
Quote:
Jerghul wrote:
Xcom
ATK Cloak Camped? 10 sounds about right.
AFK Cloak Camped? At least 300 in null sec alone

Drac
Not only was it not needed - AFK cloaky camping was avoided. The trap would have failed if anyone had been afk cloaky camping in the system.


Jerghul pulling numbers out of his ass again. Show us the proof.

Also, AFK-cloaking only works in sov-null due to that being the only place that uses local as their only Intel

Wormholer for life.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8005 - 2016-12-07 14:56:10 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Also, AFK-cloaking only works in sov-null due to that being the only place that uses local as their only Intel


You might want to rethink that sentence, seriously dude... ShockedRoll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Xcom
US Space Force
Black Rose.
#8006 - 2016-12-07 15:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Xcom
So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them.

Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8007 - 2016-12-07 16:54:36 UTC
Xcom wrote:
So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them.

Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics.


Congrats on breaking cloaking for everyone that uses it and nerfing the whole point of cloaks. Well done!

Wormholer for life.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8008 - 2016-12-07 17:24:27 UTC
Xcom wrote:
So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them.

Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics.


It would hit every super pilot, every WH resident, every nomad (I have a character that only does PvE and hasn't docked in two months) extremely hard.

Do you even play this game?

AFK cloaking in null is by far the smallest part of the game that would be impacted by a nerf to cloaks.
Prince Kobol
#8009 - 2016-12-07 18:03:16 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Xcom wrote:
So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them.

Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics.


It would hit every super pilot, every WH resident, every nomad (I have a character that only does PvE and hasn't docked in two months) extremely hard.

Do you even play this game?

AFK cloaking in null is by far the smallest part of the game that would be impacted by a nerf to cloaks.


Here is the problem with this discussion. It is solely focused on null sec, people forget that there are other aspects to the game.

Whilst me and Dracvlad disagreed on various points, at the least neither of us wanted to remove cloaking, just implementing a mechanics that allowed people the chance to be able to detect them

( I apologise Dracvlad if I go that wrong)
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8010 - 2016-12-07 18:34:43 UTC
Xcom wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Local is fine. The problem is really local. It is perfect, invulnerable, and provides a distinct advantage to those already in system. It is really the OP mechanic that local campers piggy back on to scare you back into station.

Fixed it for ya bro. Stay on topic, we must force out the fools who think this is a cloaking thread. Keep fighting the power, bro.


Local is fine and the only problem?

Not much of a fix.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8011 - 2016-12-07 18:37:45 UTC
Xcom wrote:
So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them.

Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics.


No, that is a made up number, try again. Roll

And most of the ideas would impact ALL ATK cloak users. Can't wait for all the whine threads as CODE. starts wholesale ganking of blockade runners if one of the more boneheaded suggestions are implemented.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8012 - 2016-12-07 18:44:19 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Xcom wrote:
So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them.

Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics.


It would hit every super pilot, every WH resident, every nomad (I have a character that only does PvE and hasn't docked in two months) extremely hard.

Do you even play this game?

AFK cloaking in null is by far the smallest part of the game that would be impacted by a nerf to cloaks.


Here is the problem with this discussion. It is solely focused on null sec, people forget that there are other aspects to the game.

Whilst me and Dracvlad disagreed on various points, at the least neither of us wanted to remove cloaking, just implementing a mechanics that allowed people the chance to be able to detect them

( I apologise Dracvlad if I go that wrong)


Supers live in LS too you know. People also use cloaks in LS too you know. Cloaks are not just used for camping you know.

Depending on how you handle that detectability you could seriously screw over alot of players to get to a smaller subset.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8013 - 2016-12-07 18:48:35 UTC
Kobol
Something that detects cloaking kills afk cloaky camping, but does not need to harm ATK cloaky camping if carefully implemented.

Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all.

Better than a timer approach, as at the time I was trying to give afk cloaky camping a window of possibility. But a window is too easy to exploit and extend until server downtime using third party applications.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8014 - 2016-12-07 18:50:29 UTC
Lets try a thought experiment.

Suppose we keep local and have the OA which allows cloak detection (which the Clown Posse of Brokk-Jerghul, Xcom, and Dracvald want), what is the likely result.

Increased safety for NS.

We'll still have local and the safety it provides and now on top of it will have the added safety the OA would bring to the game. So with local and the OA it is quite possible that number of ships killed while ratting, mining, etc. would go down, not up.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8015 - 2016-12-07 18:52:00 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Xcom wrote:
So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them.

Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics.


It would hit every super pilot, every WH resident, every nomad (I have a character that only does PvE and hasn't docked in two months) extremely hard.

Do you even play this game?

AFK cloaking in null is by far the smallest part of the game that would be impacted by a nerf to cloaks.


Here is the problem with this discussion. It is solely focused on null sec, people forget that there are other aspects to the game.

Whilst me and Dracvlad disagreed on various points, at the least neither of us wanted to remove cloaking, just implementing a mechanics that allowed people the chance to be able to detect them

( I apologise Dracvlad if I go that wrong)




Oh and you can detect when an AFK cloaker or any cloaked ship is in system...you do it via local.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8016 - 2016-12-07 18:54:37 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Here is the problem with this discussion. It is solely focused on null sec, people forget that there are other aspects to the game.

Whilst me and Dracvlad disagreed on various points, at the least neither of us wanted to remove cloaking, just implementing a mechanics that allowed people the chance to be able to detect them

( I apologise Dracvlad if I go that wrong)


This is why you can't earn ISK or shoot anyone with an active cloak. It's a non-issue.

Why should you be able to hunt someone who isn't a threat?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8017 - 2016-12-07 19:10:52 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
And baltec1 is shown to be lying yet again, the AFK cloaky camper was not needed for that dread bomb, it was a bait dread that got the Goons to drop which then got counter dropped.


And how did that dread get there?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8018 - 2016-12-07 19:12:28 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Xcom
ATK Cloak Camped? 10 sounds about right.
AFK Cloak Camped? At least 300 in null sec alone

Drac
Not only was it not needed - AFK cloaky camping was avoided. The trap would have failed if anyone had been afk cloaky camping in the system.


That system always has neuts in local.
syndrie sexton
tempyhold
#8019 - 2016-12-07 19:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: syndrie sexton
Aiyshimin wrote:
It's interesting to see how people still haven't figured this out. Changing how cloaks work or discussing some ******** probing mechanics against cloakers doesn't change anything.

The topic has never been "AFK cloaking", because the threat is not the cloaked ship, or the cloaking device, it's the (covert ops) cynosural field generator fitted next to the cloak.

If the AFK cloaker was actually a single ship, even nullbears could occasionally man up and face the threat. However, the cyno changes the threat from manageable to unknown, and as it is, into very much certain death.

The attacker has 100% advantage, they choose whether to engage or not, when to do it and what to field.

Some resourceful bears have scouts in the bridging system, and have watchlisted the pilots, and can therefore bear as much as they like, regardless of the cloaker and his keyboardness status.

Cyno use in direct combat is the mechanic that needs tuning, if we assume that scaredbears are something else than untermensch, and that anyone gives a single **** about their mindless, bot-aspirant playstyle. Which we don't.





yep, and the speed at which they get there is unfair IMHO also. uncloak, scram and cyno and pod. But no 1 cares about miners, never have never will. I know no 1 cares, after 12 years you see what CCP thinks..
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8020 - 2016-12-07 19:19:30 UTC
syndrie sexton wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
It's interesting to see how people still haven't figured this out. Changing how cloaks work or discussing some ******** probing mechanics against cloakers doesn't change anything.

The topic has never been "AFK cloaking", because the threat is not the cloaked ship, or the cloaking device, it's the (covert ops) cynosural field generator fitted next to the cloak.

If the AFK cloaker was actually a single ship, even nullbears could occasionally man up and face the threat. However, the cyno changes the threat from manageable to unknown, and as it is, into very much certain death.

The attacker has 100% advantage, they choose whether to engage or not, when to do it and what to field.

Some resourceful bears have scouts in the bridging system, and have watchlisted the pilots, and can therefore bear as much as they like, regardless of the cloaker and his keyboardness status.

Cyno use in direct combat is the mechanic that needs tuning, if we assume that scaredbears are something else than untermensch, and that anyone gives a single **** about their mindless, bot-aspirant playstyle. Which we don't.





yep, and the speed at which they get there is unfair IMHO also. uncloak, scram and cyno and pod. But no 1 cares about miners, never have never will. I know no 1 cares, after 12 years you see what CCP thinks..


Miners just got gifted the most powerful anti hot drop tool ever made.