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War for Attackers

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The Devils Cousin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2016-11-28 17:51:24 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The Devils Cousin wrote:
I am not stupid enough to join a corp in high sec
Get your head out of your arse,
Except I've been at war with your main and all you did was talk smack.
And I've personally tried to catch your stabbed ass.

Chest beat all you want about your "real" PvP but you're still just as bitter and irrelevant as you were then.

The rest of your rant isn't worth addressing,
applicable to some but not Devil's.



lol stabbed, show me ANY killmail of mine with stabs on, ever, i have NEVER fitted stabs

Standard griefer tactic

Don't like what they hear

So they start telling lies, calling sumone a stabbed monkey

You are predictable, down to your last comment

Go home, your drunk

CCP Please Don't Do This..

The Respawn Expansion
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#102 - 2016-11-28 17:58:22 UTC
You can level a lot things at me, but Liar is not one of them.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#103 - 2016-11-28 18:01:58 UTC
The Devils Cousin wrote:

Go home, your drunk

You might want to disable comments on those poor quality videos you make.

I'm writing a comment bot now to post links over to your forum posts as s warning to anyone that might watch your channel and mistakenly think you have some sort of clue.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2016-11-28 18:05:44 UTC
Gavascon wrote:
maybe it's time to NOT let corporation members leave after a war dec has been dropped on them.
OR let the corp members take the war with them if they do leave.


Well this is one of the stupidest things I've read on here. It's pretty obvious all you care about is ganking miners since you can't really pvp. Or else you wouldn't be operating in high sec, utilizing wardeccing and complaining on the forums. The game has wardecs that can last indefinitely and prevent people from pretty much playing the game, and you have the audacity to complain that people can quit corporations to get away from tools like you?

The ironic part is if CCP actually listened to your shortsighted, brainless idea, the majority of the non pvp mission runners and industry players would either quit or stay in NYC corporations and you'd have even less people to harass, and market prices would go through the roof.
The Devils Cousin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2016-11-28 18:15:20 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
The Devils Cousin wrote:

Go home, your drunk

You might want to disable comments on those poor quality videos you make.

I'm writing a comment bot now to post links over to your forum posts as s warning to anyone that might watch your channel and mistakenly think you have some sort of clue.


Go for it, ill just remove your from the channel and ban you, I have zero tolerance for children with bad attitudes who use alts to post because they are to cowardly to use your main chars

CCP Please Don't Do This..

The Respawn Expansion
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#106 - 2016-11-28 18:17:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn Shi
There are 2 options here.

Leave hi-sec and hang in low or null where there are lots of people to pvp and will shoot back. Will solve your issue.

Or sit in the safety of hi-sec and pick targets who wont shoot back and create forum posts. Which wont solve your issue.

We know what your choice is.
Keno Skir
#107 - 2016-11-28 18:17:36 UTC
The Devils Cousin wrote:
they start telling lies, calling sumone a stabbed monkey

You are predictable, down to your last comment

Go home, your drunk


He may be drunk but you sir are uneducated, and Ralph will be sober by morning.. Cool

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250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#108 - 2016-11-28 18:18:42 UTC
The Devils Cousin wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
The Devils Cousin wrote:

Go home, your drunk

You might want to disable comments on those poor quality videos you make.

I'm writing a comment bot now to post links over to your forum posts as s warning to anyone that might watch your channel and mistakenly think you have some sort of clue.


Go for it, ill just remove your from the channel and ban you, I have zero tolerance for children with bad attitudes who use alts to post because they are to cowardly to use your main chars

Bahaha, the irony.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
The Devils Cousin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2016-11-28 18:20:32 UTC
As I said, bitter little griefers who can't use link alts and are now getting there asses handed to them

go go

love it,

your tears on here, the hatred, the sarcasm, gives me more than enough reason to keep posting

CCP Please Don't Do This..

The Respawn Expansion
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#110 - 2016-11-28 18:27:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Scuse me but we're having one or the best months for fight's we have had in years.
Intel, you suck at it.

And link alts ,which you are literally the only person her talking about,
function just fine , the fact you seem to think it's impossible says a heap about you though it really does.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
The Devils Cousin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2016-11-28 18:30:07 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Scuse me but we're having one or the best months for fight's web had in years.

And link alts ,which you are literally the only person her talking about,
function just fine , the fact you seem to think it's impossible says a heap about you though it really does.


Look little griefer, people like you are the cancer to eve, it's that simple.

You are the morons who drive prices up, the idiots who gank miners, the fools who control auction houses on wow pushing mount prices up, youa re the cancer of humanity, disgusting little people who take pleasure in other peoples pain.

You act elite but your not, you sir and your alliance and pirat and marmite are the sole reasons eve has never grown in surges because you ruin peoples gameplay for your own enjoyment and you enjoy that kinda pain, you like the anger, the smack, the fighting with people, the abuse

Your disgusting, it's that simple

CCP Please Don't Do This..

The Respawn Expansion
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#112 - 2016-11-28 18:34:54 UTC
There it is, Evasive Shadow Assassin everyone, laid bare.

It's a game, I choose to play differently than you do.
There's nothing more to it than that.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
The Devils Cousin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2016-11-28 18:37:09 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
There it is, Evasive Shadow Assassin everyone, laid bare.

It's a game, I choose to play differently than you do.
There's nothing more to it than that.



You can quote my mains name all day long

don't forget Lord Whisker as well

End of the day you enjoy other peoples pain

It's that simple

Ill keep responding, I have nothing else better to do tnite :P5

CCP Please Don't Do This..

The Respawn Expansion
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#114 - 2016-11-28 18:41:39 UTC
The Devils Cousin wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
There it is, Evasive Shadow Assassin everyone, laid bare.

It's a game, I choose to play differently than you do.
There's nothing more to it than that.



You can quote my mains name all day long

don't forget Lord Whisker as well

End of the day you enjoy other peoples pain

It's that simple

Ill keep responding, I have nothing else better to do tnite :P5

You could always revise your grammar.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
#115 - 2016-11-28 18:50:24 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I'm pretty sure CCP's intention with war was that you are getting aggression Rights twords the corporation/alliance and not specifically the individuals.

Don't get me wrong I think it's a pain in the arse when a group you've been doing research on for a while just folds as soon as the Dec drops.
But that's an issue with how Corps function on a fundamental level.
Dec dodging as an entity is bad
But
Leaving a war as an individual is an absolute necessity.
you can take that "nope" option away from wars, specifically when talking about line members and new recruits.
On an individual basis one has to be able to leave the circumstances,
If you can't hack it in null you can leave
If you can't hack it in wormholes you can leave
If you can't hack it low you can leave
Highsec though?
You can't go anywhere else, you're left with dropping corp or logging off and the latter isn't a healthy thing for the game.

Yes corporation and alliance mechanics suck,
Yes I agree with you that it's far to easy to Dec dodg,
Yes you absolutely should have your fees refunded.
You can't lock the line members in though,
You could make an arrangement for the leadership though I.e. the CEO and directors.


The plain reason why CCP doesnt lock folk to a corp during a war dec is that CCP has long realized that you cant force people to play the game. If a player wants to avoid a war they will; CCP simply lacks the tools to compel non-willing folk to engage in pvp. If a player doesnt like some aspect of the game they dont do it. And if they feel compelled to play that un-fun for them aspect - they log out. A player has always been able to avoid a war dec by simply logging out and playing an alt or another game. If a player is forced to log out for a long period of time, the chance of them returning to the game obviously decreases. CCP doesnt want to do anything that would increase the likelihood of folk logging out of the game instead of playing - so it is highly unlikely that ccp will ever tell a player that once a war dec has been declared you are stuck in the corp and must engage in battle.

The real problem with war decs is that they are entirely one sided. The typical war dec is some merc corp or group of individuals looking for low hanging fruit to kill. There is nothing in it for the defender. This is a game - not real life - so it is supposed to be fun for the players. It is clearly not fun for players to be fodder for somebody else's entertainment. Moreover, war dec is chock full of problematic game play - such as one man corp war decs that suddenly bloom into large corporations, or perma-dec's by folk that never undock who are doing it strictly for the harassment.

In short, War decs will continue to remain broken until such time as CCP creates incentives for play from both the Defenders and Attackers perspective.
Lasisha Mishi
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#116 - 2016-11-28 18:56:24 UTC
Ocean Ormand wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I'm pretty sure CCP's intention with war was that you are getting aggression Rights twords the corporation/alliance and not specifically the individuals.

Don't get me wrong I think it's a pain in the arse when a group you've been doing research on for a while just folds as soon as the Dec drops.
But that's an issue with how Corps function on a fundamental level.
Dec dodging as an entity is bad
But
Leaving a war as an individual is an absolute necessity.
you can take that "nope" option away from wars, specifically when talking about line members and new recruits.
On an individual basis one has to be able to leave the circumstances,
If you can't hack it in null you can leave
If you can't hack it in wormholes you can leave
If you can't hack it low you can leave
Highsec though?
You can't go anywhere else, you're left with dropping corp or logging off and the latter isn't a healthy thing for the game.

Yes corporation and alliance mechanics suck,
Yes I agree with you that it's far to easy to Dec dodg,
Yes you absolutely should have your fees refunded.
You can't lock the line members in though,
You could make an arrangement for the leadership though I.e. the CEO and directors.


The plain reason why CCP doesnt lock folk to a corp during a war dec is that CCP has long realized that you cant force people to play the game. If a player wants to avoid a war they will; CCP simply lacks the tools to compel non-willing folk to engage in pvp. If a player doesnt like some aspect of the game they dont do it. And if they feel compelled to play that un-fun for them aspect - they log out. A player has always been able to avoid a war dec by simply logging out and playing an alt or another game. If a player is forced to log out for a long period of time, the chance of them returning to the game obviously decreases. CCP doesnt want to do anything that would increase the likelihood of folk logging out of the game instead of playing - so it is highly unlikely that ccp will ever tell a player that once a war dec has been declared you are stuck in the corp and must engage in battle.

The real problem with war decs is that they are entirely one sided. The typical war dec is some merc corp or group of individuals looking for low hanging fruit to kill. There is nothing in it for the defender. This is a game - not real life - so it is supposed to be fun for the players. It is clearly not fun for players to be fodder for somebody else's entertainment. Moreover, war dec is chock full of problematic game play - such as one man corp war decs that suddenly bloom into large corporations, or perma-dec's by folk that never undock who are doing it strictly for the harassment.

In short, War decs will continue to remain broken until such time as CCP creates incentives for play from both the Defenders and Attackers perspective.


random idea to make defenders want to defend

idea from FW
when you kill an attacker from corp who war dec'd you. you get LP based on what ship it was (like in FW)

only applies for the defenders.....as otherwise high sec gankers would just continue to war dec everyone.

good idea? maybe not....but its an idea to encourage defenders. and thus make attackers 2nd guess if they want to dec war as they don't get LP for killing, and the enemy will actually be encouraged to fight back
Epoch Veli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2016-11-28 18:59:26 UTC
Gavascon wrote:
well, CCP......maybe it's time to do something for those who like to declare war.

after all, you have done a lot for defenders.
i.e.: ally system and the loss of a watch list.




The loss of a watchlist helps the offender as much as it does the defender. The ally system allows people to bring in their friends fairly instead of having them neutral rep. As it is, I would say high sec wardeccers have it plenty easy. They build their corp to do one thing, and as with ships in EVE, being built for one thing allows you to do it very well. You do clean up corps that have not performed for their members, and for that New Eden should thank you. I am worried that corps that may have grown given time are preyed on by the big fish, but if a corp folds because of a dec, then it was never meant to stand. I would like to see wars be more objective based. With the dec, an objective is declared and a concession made. IE: The war ends when a particular structure is destroyed, and the offense loses if X number of ships are lost. That would give the defense something to rally on, and a clear goal that they can achieve. As it is, so many wars are just to terrorize people on market hubs.
Keno Skir
#118 - 2016-11-28 19:12:32 UTC
The Devils Cousin wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Scuse me but we're having one or the best months for fight's web had in years.

And link alts ,which you are literally the only person her talking about,
function just fine , the fact you seem to think it's impossible says a heap about you though it really does.


Look little griefer, people like you are the cancer to eve, it's that simple.

You are the morons who drive prices up, the idiots who gank miners, the fools who control auction houses on wow pushing mount prices up, youa re the cancer of humanity, disgusting little people who take pleasure in other peoples pain.

You act elite but your not, you sir and your alliance and pirat and marmite are the sole reasons eve has never grown in surges because you ruin peoples gameplay for your own enjoyment and you enjoy that kinda pain, you like the anger, the smack, the fighting with people, the abuse

Your disgusting, it's that simple


So butt-hurt dude, everything you write oozes impotent tears.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#119 - 2016-11-28 19:25:10 UTC
The problem with each and every idea about restricting what a player can do once their corp is war decced is none of them take into account what the player enjoys, and does not enjoy

This is a game. We play it for fun. This means we do thing in the game that we enjoy.

If I am a player that does not enjoy war, then I will not participate in one.

If the rules allow me to drop corp, then I will drop corp, and you will not be able to shoot me.
If the rules say I cannot drop corp, or the war follows me, then I will not undock, or not log in for the duration. Result: same as now, you will not be able to shoot me.

As this proposed rule change results in absolutely no change in your ability to shoot me, why do it?

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Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#120 - 2016-11-28 19:27:20 UTC
a couple of thoughts...

1) The removal of the watch list had nothing to do with hi sec war Decs or those trying to avoid them. This was aside effect. The watch list was killed because it made hunting capital ships far too easy. See a character in a titan, watch list that character and you'll know when the titan most likely goes online. This was far too powerful. Yes, locator agents should tell you is a pilot is online to compensate but please every one, drop this notion that the watch list was removed because of hi sec carebears.

2) why does everyone forget mutual wars when talking about war decs? Yes they are used by a limited few but you need to account for these. This accounting has to include all the less than normal tricks as well. For example... Just saying oh all this applies to mutual decs as well would be insane. It would be far too easy to sneak a director into a clueless Corp, dec that corp, then have the alt director declare the war mutual trapping everyone in the corp forever.

3) which ties into the whole can't leave when war decced poor idea... During Dust days, it was possible to trap a player in a dust Corp by simply constantly assigning them roles. The player could opt to drop rolesbut that required a cool down period. All a director or a CEO had to do was reapply the rolls during the cool down (what amounted to once a day), and you could never leave. The CEO could also set the tax rate at 100% and the Dust Bunny would be in deep trouble as all income went to the Corp. This is eve. If you make it so a person cannot drop Corp during a war dec, someone will use this to cause major grief and drive people out of the game. Yes eve is harsh. Yes you can lose it all, but you are always suppose to be able to walk away, start over in a rookie ship, and build back up. Trapping people in corps with a war dec would kill this core concept of EVE so can we just stop throwing this foolish idea out there?

4) as for war decs traveling with people... This may not be possible. Not knowing how the game is coded, this may be too cumbersome to implement. Is there room in the character database to add flags saying a pilot is at war with x? I'd love to know. On the other hand, it may be easy. It would be nice to have CCP give us some guidance or understanding on how the whole war dec system. I don't mean how it works from a game play perspective, but rather an exploration of X feature or option would require about Y programming hours. For example, coding war decs to follow a person would take Y hours/days/months. This way we could push for a quick fix or a full rewrite.

I think people who want to fix war decs need to spend ample time as the aggressor, the defender, and as part of a mutual fun war before they should start trying to change the system to favor their side in the whole war dec mess.