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why are people against "walking in stations"?

Author
Snyzer Erata
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2016-11-23 17:32:17 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Just a comment to the "because star citizen" people.

While I agree that all this walking around in stations and ships may look awesome and it looks so cool in their videos if the pilot stands up from his seat and walks out of the spaceship..

How many times will you watch this animation until you think: "ok, nice, but why can't I skip it and go on with the interesting stuff of the game".

Seriously, all that eye-candy is exactly that, eye-candy, and it will get old very fast.

Then ask yourself, is this really needed and why should developer and artist time be invested in something you will wish you could just ignore after two days?


When people try that "CCP better do something because Star Citizen" , I don't go into as much detail as you did. I just retype the list of games people on these forums proclaimed would be the end of EVE if CCP didn't do something because "competition is coming":

Earth and Beyond (the original cry was "CCP better hurry up, Earth and Beyond is already out!!!!)

Jumpgate

Black Prophecy

No less than two games with the words "Star" and "Wars" in them.

Star (that damn word again) Trek Online

No Man's Sky

Elite: Dangerous


And yet Gee Golly, EVE is still here and almost half the games on the list of "sure to kill EVE" are themselves dead or declining... Several include both "walking around stuff" and "having stuff to do (content)". And yet EVE, that damn game of nothing but space ships, little real "content", griefers and spreadsheets is still around... WTF mate?


I understand why EVE has a loyal community with players who have been playing it for more than 10 years. EVE is indeed a fantastic and complex game. I dont think STAR CITZEN will be the EVE killer. But I think once STAR CITZEN is released, NEW players will no longer be interested in testing EVE. The game will be suported only by the old players. That is why CCP needs to start investing more in immersion. To attract new players. And I'm sure CCP has a lot of interest in attracting new players, this new free-to-play model is the proof.

Please excuse any grammatical errors and sorry for any misspellings. English is not my native language. I'm from brazil.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#62 - 2016-11-23 18:10:08 UTC
Snyzer Erata wrote:
I understand why EVE has a loyal community with players who have been playing it for more than 10 years. EVE is indeed a fantastic and complex game. I dont think STAR CITZEN will be the EVE killer. But I think once STAR CITZEN is released, NEW players will no longer be interested in testing EVE. The game will be suported only by the old players. That is why CCP needs to start investing more in immersion. To attract new players. And I'm sure CCP has a lot of interest in attracting new players, this new free-to-play model is the proof.

I was a big fan of Wing Commander and foremost WC Privateer which was one of the best games I ever played. This game was the reason I started EVE. It was what started the dreams years before EVE even existed when we asked ourselves "what if this game had multiplayer? The possibilities would be endless."

I think many of the investors of Star Citizen had the same dream and they wish it to become true with this game. I really hope they will produce a good game. Yet I am very skeptical about it when I actually see what they produce.

It does not look like a sandbox game to me. It looks like a the old single player Privateer with seriously updated graphics but without the sandbox which would make the universe from that old dream actually a reality.

I don't think SC will be anything like EVE. It will be much more of a guided experience with some added multiplayer for space ship combat, but nowhere the level of battles eve has. The whole grand strategy layer which thrives New Eden and makes this universe the player driven place where events happen of which people even after a decade speak about. All the things that give actual meaning to this universe are in my opinion completely missing from SC.

Don't get me wrong, it will probably be an amazing game and I will probably play it. But I don't think it can or even tires to compete with EVE. It is in a completely different category.

Also it may have escaped you, but people can actually play multiple games. It's not like they exclude each other or something.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#63 - 2016-11-23 18:38:50 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Also it may have escaped you, but people can actually play multiple games. It's not like they exclude each other or something.

There is only EvE. EvE is mother. EvE is father. It seems your WOW-playing obsession has affected your judgement. Blink

j/k...I agree with you.

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#64 - 2016-11-23 18:52:00 UTC
Jotunspor wrote:
(...)But of course. What do i know? Right? (...)
I found the essential bit of the insane rambling. The part where you admitted that you don't know anything, and thus we can disregard the rest of your illogical, unintelligable, incoherent ramble.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#65 - 2016-11-23 19:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
Maybe was answered but i enjoy this topic anyway:

Pull up a chair kids and let uncle Reaper tell you a story.

Back in 2004 when i started, ccp had this little problem. they would show something cool they were working on, hype it all to hell, and it would either a) never get off the drawing board. or b) make it to the sever but be gutted.

typically CCP was in the search for, lack of a better term, shiney. they would deploy a jesus feature, promise to work on it, then let it fester and roit as they moved on tot he next big thing. This tended to happen a lot, so a ton of features kinda piled up, incomplete and or frustratingly broken. It created a cycle like this:

CCP: Hey guys for the next expansion we are going to this awesome shiney thing! Its coming in July of this year (this would be announce din say jan)
Players: WOW that looks awesome but we have a few questions...

two months later:

CCP: oh, we are not doing that that way, we had to make some changes, but its still really cool and coming in july!
Players: the changes look ok, but what happened to x?
weeks pass
Players: um hello ccp? what happened to x?
CCP: we had to cut it, but it will be worked on after release!

2 months before exoansion:

CCP: Ok here is what is coming in 2 months!
Players: wait.. what the hell? why did you gut 50% of it?
CCP: it was not going to work, so we will add to it later we will interate on thsi for years to come!

Month of expansion:

CCP: ok here is the final stuff coming!
Players: what the hell?!?1 you cut another 20%?
CCP: it was not going to work, so we will add to it later we will interate on thsi for years to come!

Expansion released, server is broken and unplayable for around a month as they attempt to fix it. In a few cases the server was dead for 2 days after the release.

Server now stable:

CCP: ok guys, here is whats coming in the next expasion!
Players: WAIT! X is still broken Y was cut.. when is that coming?
CCP: later, but for now.. NEW SHINEY! coming to you in March!

Cycle repeats.

This leads to 2007. CCP showed us a cool walking in station project, this time codenames Ambulation. (seriously look it up on youtube, it was rad as hell) But this was delayed. (people who way WiS took 18 months have no idea what they are talking about. It took nearly 5 years for WiS to come into being.

2008, first inkling of a Dust 514 and WoD games.

so now we come to 2010. Ambulation is dead, its now WiS. the game is severly broken, lots of functions don;t work or are a pain in the ass. Sov sucks. people are unhappy. Etc.

CCP being CCP drops WiS, which was not as promised. People get reustrated, but this is ccp so they will shrug it off... then comes...

WiS melts video cards. Some peple laugh it off, as good old ccp, boot.ini all over again. Then comes...

none micro transactions. The first new eden store has insane prices. people are annoyed but alright because its just cosmetics.

Then comes.. $75 pants and $200 monicles. The annoyance is growing.

Then comes: The game still not being fixed.. and broken.

Finally, the thing that set everyone off... the 'Greed is Good' memo leaks. A memo that essentually aid 'ccp is lying to you' Micro transactions are coming for everything, get ready for pay to win eve.

And all hell broke lose.

The issue with this whole thing. If any one of these came on there own, we would of adapted and moved on. The problem is, everything hit at once. withen about 1 months time. So there was no chance to squash or calm the masses. the game was broken, ccp was lying and wanted to milk us for all we worth. And when people tried to ask them to fix it.. we got "hey look Dust is coming! NEW SHINEY!"

WiS did not do it, it was the combination. But everyone tends to attribute WiS to the problem. it wasn't. It was a symptom of the issue, and that was ccp has lost there way. We have micro transactions and other things now and eve players are fine. parts of the game are still broken/unfinished *cough* PI *cough* and we are fine. It was the trifecta, WiS being **** and wasted dev time making crap that was not close to what was promised (normal CCP) while the game was broken still. Microtranactions that were not micro. and Greed is good. All these, is why the riots happened. any one and we would of been fine, but all three together... and you have a **** storm on your hands.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2016-11-23 20:33:00 UTC
Capsuleers would have to have a good reason to leave their capsules.

The problem with WiS is that it would be a completely different game. It would be something like a Star Wars Galaxies kind of thing (which I wouldn't mind), but it wouldn't be Spaceships & Spreadsheets.

Do I want avatar game play? Yes. Is it worth building in Eve? No.

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#67 - 2016-11-23 20:40:02 UTC
Ila Dace wrote:
Capsuleers would have to have a good reason to leave their capsules.

The problem with WiS is that it would be a completely different game. It would be something like a Star Wars Galaxies kind of thing (which I wouldn't mind), but it wouldn't be Spaceships & Spreadsheets.

Do I want avatar game play? Yes. Is it worth building in Eve? No.



i disagree, Avatar gameplay could have a lot of uses in eve. but ti needs ot be done right, and not ****

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#68 - 2016-11-23 20:51:06 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Ila Dace wrote:
Capsuleers would have to have a good reason to leave their capsules.

The problem with WiS is that it would be a completely different game. It would be something like a Star Wars Galaxies kind of thing (which I wouldn't mind), but it wouldn't be Spaceships & Spreadsheets.

Do I want avatar game play? Yes. Is it worth building in Eve? No.



i disagree, Avatar gameplay could have a lot of uses in eve. but ti needs ot be done right, and not ****


And CCP can't do it. They've proven that. Which leads me to this question that i'd really like an answer for:

How many times does CCP have to prove they can't do it before people just let it go? Like you said, it wasn't 18 months, it was 5 years, and MOST of the Jesus features they promised (member Atmospheric Flight, I member) never ever happen. how many more half decades do we want them to waste before trowing in the WiS towel?

Heck, at this point I'm starting to think the "player owned stargates" are going that way, when was the last time we heard of those?

So yea, how many times?
Clandestiny
Doomheim
#69 - 2016-11-23 21:00:04 UTC
I would love to dock up and take a much needed hot, soapy shower...

❤╫╟╖A╥╖K❤╙╢OU❤

🎯→🚀

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#70 - 2016-11-24 00:47:13 UTC
Ila Dace wrote:
Capsuleers would have to have a good reason to leave their capsules.

The problem with WiS is that it would be a completely different game. It would be something like a Star Wars Galaxies kind of thing (which I wouldn't mind), but it wouldn't be Spaceships & Spreadsheets.

Do I want avatar game play? Yes. Is it worth building in Eve? No.


Which is why I've always said the solution is to make a different game. Rather than bloat the EVE client, you just make a whole new 100% optional game that EVE will give you a button to switch to that game when you're docked up. The EVE client shuts down and automatically boots the other game that allows you to do all the WiS stuff that people who aren't interested don't want in their client. CCP have already shown they can have two games running on one server and have interaction between them, DUST was a great prototype for that.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Caraline Mardiel
Mariin Labs Inc.
#71 - 2016-11-24 02:09:57 UTC
While there are a lot of valid points here for why people are against it, most people don't know the story behind WiS/Ambulation.
I remember them talking about their dreams for the game during it's beta phases, and having an avatar to move about inside stations was part of that. They wanted to 'wait' until it could be done 'right', of course we've heard them say this a lot, haven't we? WiS, while it was not an 18 month project was in fact, a 5 year project....where people seem to lose track of this is, is that those 5 years of work were scrapped after they came up with the game engine for the WoD game they had recently started working on. So yes, 5 years of work, scrapped in favor of attempting to remake all of that work, in 18 months, which is why they had to drop 'everything' else and only focused on WiS, and after all of that 'hard work' and nothing else getting attention they gave us one races room to walk around in, with no capabilities for decorating it, or doing anything you couldn't already do by sitting in your ship. That whole expansion was one giant FUBAR.

All that said, I would be willing to pay for an xpac where they finish what they promised. Eve is soon to be the only space MMO without avatars to walk around with in a meaningful way, as well as atmo flight and planet landing, both things they said would happen and never did.

Had they done WiS properly, then perhaps we could of had things like, ship boarding. Imagine...instead of blowing up someone's ship, you boarded it and took it over, adding an entirely new aspect of game play. I'm not really an FPS fan, but I think that would be fun and interesting. I know a lot of people don't like WiS, but I think it certainly could have added some depth, and for some people greater attachment to the game world. Just feels like a wasted opportunity.
Jotunspor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2016-11-24 02:54:03 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Jotunspor wrote:
(...)But of course. What do i know? Right? (...)
I found the essential bit of the insane rambling. The part where you admitted that you don't know anything, and thus we can disregard the rest of your illogical, unintelligable, incoherent ramble.



Big smile And another one! It's cute, though. What the fanboys cling on to with an actual affection. Muffin...
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#73 - 2016-11-24 03:55:38 UTC
Simply put, CCP couldn't be trusted to develop it... When captains quarters came out it melted GPUs and added practically nothing to the game... It was just using EVE as a test project for World of Darkness.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2016-11-24 08:03:42 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Snyzer Erata wrote:
I understand why EVE has a loyal community with players who have been playing it for more than 10 years. EVE is indeed a fantastic and complex game. I dont think STAR CITZEN will be the EVE killer. But I think once STAR CITZEN is released, NEW players will no longer be interested in testing EVE. The game will be suported only by the old players. That is why CCP needs to start investing more in immersion. To attract new players. And I'm sure CCP has a lot of interest in attracting new players, this new free-to-play model is the proof.

I was a big fan of Wing Commander and foremost WC Privateer which was one of the best games I ever played. This game was the reason I started EVE. It was what started the dreams years before EVE even existed when we asked ourselves "what if this game had multiplayer? The possibilities would be endless."

Games like ELITE or Wing Commander are games of the past. I suspect that most people who knew these are already not new in gaming and tried EvE at some point.

The thing with 'new players' are that most of them are from younger generation. And i think most of them never played old spaceship games and do not have 'the dreams'. They are used to different kind of gaming.

But i may be wrong for sure.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Also it may have escaped you, but people can actually play multiple games. It's not like they exclude each other or something.

Well... You only have 2 eyes and 2 hands. Lol And only 24 hours per day in any case. If you are not kid then you have job, classes, family etc.... And if you have like 2 free hours per day then games WILL exclude each other.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#75 - 2016-11-24 08:21:35 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Games like ELITE or Wing Commander are games of the past. I suspect that most people who knew these are already not new in gaming and tried EvE at some point.

The thing with 'new players' are that most of them are from younger generation. And i think most of them never played old spaceship games and do not have 'the dreams'. They are used to different kind of gaming.

I talked about SC and not about new players in EVE and what they expect. EVE was never a game for everyone, not 13 years ago and not now. So why is suddenly everyone comparing to mainstream titles and wants to make it bland like the rest?

What I talked about are the people who hype and found SC and they are in fact perople who experienced WC and all those old games. They are people between 30-50 with a lot of money and not a lot of time. You don't get 200mil from a bunch of kids without job.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2016-11-24 09:13:12 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Games like ELITE or Wing Commander are games of the past. I suspect that most people who knew these are already not new in gaming and tried EvE at some point.

The thing with 'new players' are that most of them are from younger generation. And i think most of them never played old spaceship games and do not have 'the dreams'. They are used to different kind of gaming.

I talked about SC and not about new players in EVE and what they expect. EVE was never a game for everyone, not 13 years ago and not now. So why is suddenly everyone comparing to mainstream titles and wants to make it bland like the rest?

For some reason people believe that EvE needs new players.... and more of them...

Ima Wreckyou wrote:

What I talked about are the people who hype and found SC and they are in fact perople who experienced WC and all those old games. They are people between 30-50 with a lot of money and not a lot of time. You don't get 200mil from a bunch of kids without job.

Some 'kids without job' can spend more money that 'between 30-50 with a lot of money'....

But i think those you mentioned talking not about their preference but guessing about interests of others.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Albert Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2016-11-24 11:39:43 UTC
grr change
Stevn Thomas
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2016-11-24 12:25:57 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Games like ELITE or Wing Commander are games of the past. I suspect that most people who knew these are already not new in gaming and tried EvE at some point.

The thing with 'new players' are that most of them are from younger generation. And i think most of them never played old spaceship games and do not have 'the dreams'. They are used to different kind of gaming.

I talked about SC and not about new players in EVE and what they expect. EVE was never a game for everyone, not 13 years ago and not now. So why is suddenly everyone comparing to mainstream titles and wants to make it bland like the rest?

What I talked about are the people who hype and found SC and they are in fact perople who experienced WC and all those old games. They are people between 30-50 with a lot of money and not a lot of time. You don't get 200mil from a bunch of kids without job.


You are also forgetting that FTP has become the expected norm for online games nowdays. You not going to get a lot of subscriptions from kids nowdays either.
Bibosikus
Aliastra
#79 - 2016-11-24 14:18:25 UTC
simply. because EVE is a spaceship game. If your not in spaceship your are not playing. EVE has a lot of problems unlimited budget and time to peruse fanciful daydreams are the least of them. once they have figured out how to make the big fleet fights more like the trailers and less like the little guy is just a drone of the fc then im all up for WIS.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Valkyrie Harkonnen
Doomheim
#80 - 2016-11-24 17:50:05 UTC
Please, dont bring Star Citizen here. That thing is one of the reasons the gaming industry is falling apart. Too many idiots paying for vaporware ends up with horrible broken games or even games that never see the light of the day.


Star Citizen is the greatest scam in the gaming industry. More than 100 million dollars for a vaporware. It created a cult of idiots.