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Let Alphas use ships of all races, just not train for them

Author
Robot Robot
What.
#1 - 2016-11-19 21:50:27 UTC
So, one complaint that I've heard a number of times from returning players over the last week is that they can't fly any of the ships they used to. By and large, they accept that they can't fly their battleships and T2/T3 ships on a free account, but it's much more frustrating to not be able to fly their old T1 frigates. This is especially annoying given that, for the entire history of Eve up until this past Tuesday, it has been true that the race you choose at character creation has no bearing on the ships you can fly or your progression otherwise. As a result, a fair number of people created, say, a Minmatar clone for aesthetic reasons and then trained exclusively Gallente ships/skills.

It seems to me that things could be made a lot more welcoming for returning players by keeping the list of TRAINABLE Alpha skills as they are right now, but making it so that the list of USABLE alpha skills was the combination of all the trainable alpha skills for all four races.

This might also have the positive outcome of convincing new players who might not sub otherwise to sub for a month or two in order to expand into other races' Alpha-compatible ships/skills.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#2 - 2016-11-20 11:02:50 UTC
The purpose of that free to play thing was that noobs get an infinite long trail, not all the perk a subscription has.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#3 - 2016-11-20 11:16:24 UTC
Returning players can train any missing racial hull skills in a few hours - even at the reduced Alpha rate. They will also have assets they can sell and unused skills they can extract to re-inject and distribute where needed.

The Alpha State is not intended to diminish the value of a subscription. Eve is not an easy game - things aren't handed to you on a silver platter - you need to work for them. Returning players should already know that.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#4 - 2016-11-20 13:20:42 UTC
Pay your subscription fees, peasant

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Alessienne Ellecon
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-11-20 13:38:16 UTC
And so it begins: the alphas begging for free features.

Buy a subscription or a plex, pubbie.

"CONCORD are the space cops. If you attack someone in a high-security solar system, CONCORD will commit police brutality." - Encyclopedia Dramatica

If EVE is a PvP game, then Anti-Ganking is emergent gameplay.

Robot Robot
What.
#6 - 2016-11-20 20:31:20 UTC
Guys. I'm subscribed for months in future and plan on staying that way.

But I've convinced a handful of players I used to fly with to come back now that it's F2P and this has been a sticking point for several of them. I was just thinking that relaxing this one specific limitation might help retain returning players long enough for them to resubscribe rather than having them log in once, see that they can't fly literally ANY of their old ships, and then log off again permanently.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2016-11-20 20:34:17 UTC
If they aren't prepared to go and buy a ship or wait 30 minutes then they have forgotten the tenants of EVE, and wouldn't stay long anyway.
Alessienne Ellecon
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-11-21 03:42:26 UTC
Robot Robot wrote:
Guys. I'm subscribed for months in future and plan on staying that way.

But I've convinced a handful of players I used to fly with to come back now that it's F2P and this has been a sticking point for several of them. I was just thinking that relaxing this one specific limitation might help retain returning players long enough for them to resubscribe rather than having them log in once, see that they can't fly literally ANY of their old ships, and then log off again permanently.


If it bothers them that much, they can open their damn wallets. Omega restrictions are the way they are for a reason.

"CONCORD are the space cops. If you attack someone in a high-security solar system, CONCORD will commit police brutality." - Encyclopedia Dramatica

If EVE is a PvP game, then Anti-Ganking is emergent gameplay.

Cristl
#9 - 2016-11-21 16:07:19 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
The purpose of that free to play thing was that noobs get an infinite long trail, not all the perk a subscription has.
This is, frankly, a pretty idiotic 'analysis'.

As far as I can tell, the OP is just suggesting that if people train off-race alpha skills while in an omega state, then those alpha skills will still be accessible even if they subsequently drop to an alpha state later on. They would have to have subscribed at some point, and most alpha skills are common to all races anyway, it's only ships and weapons that differ really.

You said "all the perk (sic) a subscription has". Well let's see, I can fly:

Battlecruisers, battleships, carriers, dreads, faxes, supers, interceptors, assault frigates, covert ops, stealth bombers, logistics frigates, expedition frigates, electronic attack ships, tactical destroyers, command destroyers, interdictors, heavy interdictors, heavy assault ships, logistic ships, recon cruisers, strategic cruisers, command ships, marauders, black ops, transport ships, freighters, jump freighters, whatever the Noctis and Orca count as. Possibly others (missing: exhumers, titans).

On all four races (well, mostly).

Not to mention any mechanics alphas cannot utilise.

I think it would be a good idea, since tempting them into a 30-day subscription would quite possibly entice them to stay longer - they will max out all off-race alpha skills in days, and may then think: hey, I'd like to fly an Ishtar...
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#10 - 2016-11-21 16:26:18 UTC
No, you're not going to get pirate frigs and cruisers as an alpha.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#11 - 2016-11-21 16:42:07 UTC
This would allow Alpha's to use pirate ships, correct?

If that's the case then - NO, pay the piper.

If a new player doesn't like the racial ships (playstyle, aesthetics, scoffed at by your friends), then the player can easily make a new toon of the appropriate race.... or sub to Omega and start cross training.

An old player coming back as an Alpha gets to use the forums for free, what ever else could a pilot really want??

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Cristl
#12 - 2016-11-21 16:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cristl
Pirate ships would obviously be omega only. I think we're talking about letting alpha Caldari characters fly thrashers. Edit: as long as they've subscribed at one point.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#13 - 2016-11-21 16:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Cristl wrote:
Pirate ships would obviously be omega only. I think we're talking about letting alpha Caldari characters fly thrashers. Edit: as long as they've subscribed at one point.


I'm pretty sure this would require a technical revision to the entire mechanism.

There is no limitation actually placed on ships and items. The limitations on items are merely inherited through the usability of the skills.

And, suddenly things get messy, then. No pirate ships - but what about navy? They get those right now, but in a system that allows granular restrictions on specific items, should they? It would be easy to block them at that point. Now you have to determine, on an item-by-item (or item-type by item-type, at least) basis, whether Alphas get something or not.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#14 - 2016-11-21 16:54:18 UTC
Cristl wrote:
Pirate ships would obviously be omega only. I think we're talking about letting alpha Caldari characters fly thrashers. Edit: as long as they've subscribed at one point.



Fair enough,

How?

How would the system know to lock down all but one race (that's not connected to the character's race)?

Could you change it afterwards?

If changeable, how to avoid it's mis-use? Ex., a Minmatar toon, changed to train Gallente, but once trained to Alpha max, asks to train Caldari skills. Once all trained, then subs - effectively receiving free SP not by dev design.


No, I think that there are too many problems with this - especially, since Alpha is designed to entice players to sub.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Cristl
#15 - 2016-11-21 17:57:18 UTC
I'm not sure I get you Gadget - all off-race training would have to be done with an omega account. You could never magic free SP from this.

As to Pirate ships and the game's mechanics, I don't know. All Pirate ships could be made to require a pretty ubiquitous skill to level 5, perhaps mechanics, capacitor, or navigation V?

I just feel a gang of alphas ought to be able to agree on a doctrine ship for a roam, for instance.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#16 - 2016-11-21 18:07:14 UTC
Cristl wrote:
I'm not sure I get you Gadget - all off-race training would have to be done with an omega account. You could never magic free SP from this.

As to Pirate ships and the game's mechanics, I don't know. All Pirate ships could be made to require a pretty ubiquitous skill to level 5, perhaps mechanics, capacitor, or navigation V?

I just feel a gang of alphas ought to be able to agree on a doctrine ship for a roam, for instance.



I thought the point of alpha clones was a means to try the game out for free and those that like it can sub and play the whole thing. Doctrines (well first of all I think they suck and by that I mean the suck the free will and piloting abilities out of the best pilots) aren't what I would consider a 'try the game and see if you like it' kind of thing.

The whole point of the limitations on these free crappy clones is that you CAN'T make some big organized thing out of them and affect the game in some real and meaningful way - that would be for subscribing players.

This is going exactly as predicted. The door gets cracked open and the onslaught of whine fueled creep slowly begins.



TL/DR: 15USD:

1. 2 hours at a movie
2. 2 good beers at a nice place
3. 6 meh beers at a dive bar (my personal choice)
4. 1 entire month of Eve game play

If they can't part with the money for 6 meh beers for a whole month of game play - being able to fly a rifter AND a merlin isn't going to change much. STOP THE WHINING!!!!
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#17 - 2016-11-21 18:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Cristl wrote:
I'm not sure I get you Gadget - all off-race training would have to be done with an omega account. You could never magic free SP from this.

As to Pirate ships and the game's mechanics, I don't know. All Pirate ships could be made to require a pretty ubiquitous skill to level 5, perhaps mechanics, capacitor, or navigation V?

I just feel a gang of alphas ought to be able to agree on a doctrine ship for a roam, for instance.



I thought the point of alpha clones was a means to try the game out for free and those that like it can sub and play the whole thing. Doctrines (well first of all I think they suck and by that I mean the suck the free will and piloting abilities out of the best pilots) aren't what I would consider a 'try the game and see if you like it' kind of thing.

The whole point of the limitations on these free crappy clones is that you CAN'T make some big organized thing out of them and affect the game in some real and meaningful way - that would be for subscribing players.

This is going exactly as predicted. The door gets cracked open and the onslaught of whine fueled creep slowly begins.



TL/DR: 15USD:

1. 2 hours at a movie
2. 2 good beers at a nice place
3. 6 meh beers at a dive bar (my personal choice)
4. 1 entire month of Eve game play

If they can't part with the money for 6 meh beers for a whole month of game play - being able to fly a rifter AND a merlin isn't going to change much. STOP THE WHINING!!!!


Where to start :)

First I half agree with S.L.,

While I agree about the door cracking for greed, I do rather disagree that innovative players won't make some practical use with the Alpha's that makes a positive (or at least memorable) mark in the game. This is the type of player that's attracted to EvE in the first place. Good.

Second to Cristl,

See S.L.'s response minus the part I just mentioned.

Also, ...even if you got your way, your answer to Pirate ships would be to make them out of bounds for all but the most SP bloated? C'mon.

And Alphas can still gang up. New players can always re-roll, and vets have other options: sub, reroll, or fly what you can and make do.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Zatar Sharisa
New Eden Heavy Industries Incorporated
#18 - 2016-11-21 18:46:24 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

TL/DR: 15USD:

1. 2 hours at a movie
2. 2 good beers at a nice place
3. 6 meh beers at a dive bar (my personal choice)
4. 1 entire month of Eve game play

If they can't part with the money for 6 meh beers for a whole month of game play - being able to fly a rifter AND a merlin isn't going to change much. STOP THE WHINING!!!!


I hope it's not considered "off topic," but thanks for putting this in perspective. Not my personal choice of preference for the "other," I'd move it up to #2, but still a nice list showing what's involved in keeping that sub up.

I understand about indecision, but I don't care if I get behind.  People livin' in competition.  All I want is to have my peace of mind.

"Peace of Mind"  --  Boston

Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#19 - 2016-11-21 18:50:32 UTC
2-3 hipster "coffees"
or 7 coffee-flavored coffees.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2016-11-21 19:33:39 UTC
I wonder how many F2Pers have biomassed and restarted with a Gallente toon?
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