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Why does the third alt in a OMEGA account can be trained like an Alpha
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Salvos Rhoska
#61 - 2016-11-21 18:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Memphis Baas

As you pointed out, there is no need to "scout ahead" with an Omega account, or associated Alpha (as in my proposal).

I can have free Alphas within DSCAN of every gate in the game.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#62 - 2016-11-21 18:55:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Memphis Baas

As you pointed out, there is no need to "scout ahead" with an Omega account, or associated Alpha (as in my proposal).

I can simply have free Alpha accounts situated at each gate.

I can have Alphas sitting on every gate in the entire game.


But you can only have one account logged in at any one time if any account is Alpha.

So 100 pilots at 100 different gates, you just need to log in and out of each one individually.
Not very efficient, but sure, go ahead, so long as you stay within the rules.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#63 - 2016-11-21 18:58:09 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Now the Monkey of Surrendering argues facts as they are, instead of the point of my proposal.

Yes. You surrendered well, monkey.

Also, this is not included in EULA. Its in TOS.
You failed, again.


Oh, well in that case, I guess my conflation of those documents means your plan is totally viable and not just a pointless bit of juvenile posturing, after all.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Salvos Rhoska
#64 - 2016-11-21 18:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
My point is, its possible to do.

Meaning their point is refuted.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#65 - 2016-11-21 19:04:21 UTC
I totally had to look up the difference between EULA and TOS.

--Gadget - Not a Lawyer

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Salvos Rhoska
#66 - 2016-11-21 19:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Neither of which is relevant.

CCP has all manner of rights to change all aspects of the game at a seconds notice.

I am not talking about doing something illegal. Nor is what I am proposing even possible atm.
I am talking about changing it so that it is possible, and legal.

There is no rational reason why an Omega account should not be able to fly a free Alpha account alongside it.

Many have been presented in this thread, all have been refuted and debunked.

If you PAY for this game, there is no reason why you should also not be able to associate the FREE part of this game into that.

Pay means cost.
Free means no cost.
Free should be included in the paid cost.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#67 - 2016-11-21 19:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Hey CCP, notice all the "gimmie more , but i don't want to pay nothin!" thread popping up here?

Well, this is what happens when you give some people free stuff. Give some folks an inch, they'll ask next for a light year.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#68 - 2016-11-21 19:12:14 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Neither of which is relevant.

CCP has all manner of rights to change all aspects of the game at a seconds notice.

I am not talking about doing something illegal. Nor is what I am proposing even possible atm.
I am talking about changing it so that it is possible, and legal.

There is no rational reason why an Omega account should not be able to fly a free Alpha account alongside it.

Many have been presented in this thread, all have been refuted and debunked.

If you PAY for this game, there is no reason why you should also not be able to associate the FREE part of this game into that.

Pay means cost.
Free means no cost.
Free should be included in the paid cost.


It's like you're going out of your way to complain about a non-issue...
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#69 - 2016-11-21 19:17:12 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There is no cheating in creating hundreds of Alpha scouting alts.
It is entirely legit and within the rules.

I can make an alpha scout for every single gate in this game.
Hence, your argument of alphas as unfair scouts, is refuted.

There is no moral decrepitude in it either, especially not in EVE.

You also argued that Alphas cost CCP.
Well, if that where so, then why do they allow the potential to create an infinite amount of Alphas.

The only moral decrepitude here, is in the responses to my suggestion, as vested in ulterior motives and offensive language which all ignore the actual point I was making (which was rational).

It does not make sense, that a paying account loses access to a free service.
The issue of only being able to log one Alpha at a time, is commensurate with only being able to log paid Omegas simultaneously. However, since Alphas are free, it makes sense to allow each single Omega account to run a free alpha simultaneously. You can argue about the mechanics and exploitation of that, but it is a fiscal/equity fact nonetheless.


Ohh god this again. I remember when you rage quit last time, because no one could understand how "brilliant" your idea was with forcing elder players out of NPC corps. You have a disturbing habit of deflecting all critic as people ignoring your point. Since this is a reoccuring theme with you have you considered that you perhaps do not write exactly what you think you write?

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Jennifer Starblaze
Fury Transport
#70 - 2016-11-21 19:18:38 UTC
I feel like you are looking at this from the wrong perspective.

What we have now is basically a completly different model from what we had before the clone states.

Before:

- Pay to get access to the server.

Now:

- Access to the server is free.
- Pay for a premium service (including the option to multibox with several omega accounts).


So essentially an Omega get´s the same free server access that an alpha gets + the extras you pay for.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#71 - 2016-11-21 19:19:22 UTC
Welcome Back, Salvos Rhoska !!!


--Welcoming Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#72 - 2016-11-21 19:22:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hey CCP, notice all the "gimmie more , but i don't want to pay nothin!" thread popping up here?

Well, this is what happens when you give some people free stuff. Give some folks an inch, they'll ask next for a light year.



How pumped are you for the slew of, "EHRMAGERD, CHRISTMAS REMAPS?!1?!" posts that should be dropping any day now?

I'm pumped.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#73 - 2016-11-21 19:27:11 UTC
I'm actually hoping they give us some sort of shuttle or Corvette SKIN, but I won't cry* if they don't.

--Not Crying Gadget




*loudly and in public

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2016-11-21 20:05:47 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Neither of which is relevant.

CCP has all manner of rights to change all aspects of the game at a seconds notice.

I am not talking about doing something illegal. Nor is what I am proposing even possible atm.
I am talking about changing it so that it is possible, and legal.

There is no rational reason why an Omega account should not be able to fly a free Alpha account alongside it.

Many have been presented in this thread, all have been refuted and debunked.

If you PAY for this game, there is no reason why you should also not be able to associate the FREE part of this game into that.

Pay means cost.
Free means no cost.
Free should be included in the paid cost.
Rather than look at the EULA/TOS itself we could look at the bit of logic that lead to creating that limit in the first place:

CCP didn't want floods of alphas to be the competitive norm. This applies to both the players with and without omega accounts. The method of limiting logins does the best job of accomplishing this short of simply disallowing multiple accounts.

As far as losing some free privilege, that's demonstrably false:

- An Alpha only account holder can create as many alpha accounts as they wish but may only log one account in at a time.
- A single Omega account holder can create as many alpha accounts as they wish but may only log one account in at a time.
- A multiple Omega account holder can create as many alpha accounts as they wish but may only log one account in at a time if using an alpha, or up to as many omega accounts as they have while excluding alphas.

Notice how paying in no way prevents you from using the free portion of the service. All you have to do is log out your omega.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#75 - 2016-11-21 20:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Rather than look at the EULA/TOS itself we could look at the bit of logic that lead to creating that limit in the first place:



That would work if this were about logic, but what it's actually about is some jackass thinks $15 means he should have all of his hopes and dreams personally attended to, regardless of the impact on the overall gameplay environment.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2016-11-21 21:00:32 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Rather than look at the EULA/TOS itself we could look at the bit of logic that lead to creating that limit in the first place:



That would work if this were about logic, but what it's actually about is some jackass thinks $15 means he should have all of his hopes and dreams personally attended to.
My point was mainly to show that no, the EULA/TOS limits here didn't emerge from a vacuum specifically for the point of robbing Omega account owners of their ability to use free accounts. It does serve a relevant purpose beyond that and that's of course on top of the fact that alphas work the same for alpha only and omega account owners.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2016-11-21 21:45:11 UTC
The word entitlement is used to describe OPs attitude, but i don't think it's that, or not just that.
It's a greedy pushing for more free stuff that tries to rationalise itself with wordplay and definitions, resists all explanations and reason then devolves under pressure into childish declaration of intent to abuse.
If trolling, well played, if serious, quickly at your first opportunity get yourself for a visit to some part of the world where water is scarce and dread is omnipresent. It might help you to stop worrying about silly things.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2016-11-21 23:42:50 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

There is no rational reason why an Omega account should not be able to fly a free Alpha account alongside it.

Many have been presented in this thread, all have been refuted and debunked.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Neither of those words, 'refuted' or 'debunked', is synonymous with 'ignored', which is what you've actually done.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Salvos Rhoska
#79 - 2016-11-22 08:20:38 UTC
Jennifer Starblaze wrote:
I feel like you are looking at this from the wrong perspective.

What we have now is basically a completly different model from what we had before the clone states.

Before:

- Pay to get access to the server.

Now:

- Access to the server is free.
- Pay for a premium service (including the option to multibox with several omega accounts).


So essentially an Omega get´s the same free server access that an alpha gets + the extras you pay for.


Thank you.
This is a rational argument.
However, so is mine.

I understand what you are saying and the logic.

As you point out, its a matter of perspective on the issue of what constitutes "free".

From mine, when you pay for the account, it is no longer free.
Hence access to the server is not free for an Omega. It is paid.
And since an Omega cannot fly an Alpha simultaneously, they lose that free access element.

Both perspectives/arguments are valid, depending on how you construe the services being free/paid.
Discussion on this is just forum debate. I sont expect or demand CCP to change any of this (atleast not in the immediate future)

As I said, Im not going to crusade on this issue. Im just pointing out my view on this, in a related thread.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#80 - 2016-11-22 09:12:39 UTC
MC Loviing wrote:
Why does the third alt in a OMEGA account can be trained like an Alpha account???

We are already paying the premium account why force me to have a second free account. im already paying 1 multicharacter training.

Ive just want him to be training something. Even if its slow and not all the skills.... better than nothing


this, I will let run out my sub just to train those 2 other characters on my account up when in Alpha mode.. it's kind of stupid that I can not have those trained as Alpha right away

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm