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Crime & Punishment

 
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[MERC] Vendetta Mercenary Group

First post First post
Author
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#621 - 2016-11-17 19:09:54 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Djayzere wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:



You'll need to go a bit further than "we refunded the payment, so it's cool". This is NOT cool.



Quote:

VMG received intel in relation to the client that cannot be disclosed here. An unfortunate set of events have unfolded and the 1.5 bil will be refunded.


Maybe next time read, seems reasonable if they have discovered something then they have right to cancel the contract same as in real life.

1.5b to defend a fortizar though? Wouldn't even get you a week with anyone else



I did read it. I just don't think coming to the forums with 'mystery intel' gets it done. Hence the 'need to go a bit further'.

I think it's reasonable that if a mercenary corp has a list of circumstances where they feel it's OK to back out and refund a contract - customers should know. Sekrit Mystery Stuff isn't a reason.



The former client decided to post here and so we responded. We are not going to post intel here and so Khrom or I will discuss with individuals directly if needed. We are selective to those who we give info out to.


We are as always open for business.


Edriahn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#622 - 2016-11-17 20:05:49 UTC
Natural CloneKiller wrote:

We are as always open for business.




This business might be slowing down, considering you're happily screwing your clients for a little extra cash. I've recommended VMG previously to few guys, but with what's going on here and on Reddit, it seems it's time people start working with larger and more trustworthy groups.

[20:46:05] Komahal > pl is cancer

Horny Hooligan
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#623 - 2016-11-17 20:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Horny Hooligan
Edriahn wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:

We are as always open for business.




This business might be slowing down, considering you're happily screwing your clients for a little extra cash. I've recommended VMG previously to few guys, but with what's going on here and on Reddit, it seems it's time people start working with larger and more trustworthy groups.


I agree. I have recommended VMG in the past but without some type of disclosure about why they breached their contract, i will not do so in the future.
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#624 - 2016-11-17 20:28:45 UTC
Horny Hooligan wrote:
Edriahn wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:

We are as always open for business.




This business might be slowing down, considering you're happily screwing your clients for a little extra cash. I've recommended VMG previously to few guys, but with what's going on here and on Reddit, it seems it's time people start working with larger and more trustworthy groups.


I agree. I have recommended VMG in the past but without some type of disclosure about why they breached their contract, i will not do so in the future.


Welcome forum Trolls.

There is a list of happy clients and there is a REASON why we have REFUNDED his ISK and we are moving on.
jack1974
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#625 - 2016-11-17 21:27:34 UTC
Natural CloneKiller wrote:

Welcome forum Trolls.

There is a list of happy clients and there is a REASON why we have REFUNDED his ISK and we are moving on.


You can't refund trust.
moontitties
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#626 - 2016-11-17 21:28:14 UTC  |  Edited by: moontitties
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Trolls lol.

Lol, bro... Don't talk 'bout me like ya know me. CoolBlink
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#627 - 2016-11-17 22:00:00 UTC
jack1974 wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:

Welcome forum Trolls.

There is a list of happy clients and there is a REASON why we have REFUNDED his ISK and we are moving on.


You can't refund trust.


There are plenty of happy customers lol.
Zion Payne
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Holdings
#628 - 2016-11-17 22:33:08 UTC
The real troll are your 32 pages of bumbs for a service that has negative value.

This guy needs more visibility:

Milostiev wrote:
wow ... talk about professionalism.

You are hired to protect a Fortizar, immediately break contract (after gaining an advantage under that deal) and refund the isk only when the client posts here in your feedback thread ... you claim this is about some super secret intel, and then proceed to have your guy mock the initial poster.

Is this your method of trumping up good business ?
While many might not be able to put the dot on the i, most ppl who read this know it stinks.

If you truly fancy yourself as a professional merc outfit, you should at least fix all the damage you have done to your client, weather or not this was a mistake, which includes :
- refund of contract isk (done apparently)
- allow former client to reach the stage he had before this clus***** of a situation (vulnerability window moved back at least and time to find new protection)

And if this client you broke a deal with was paying monthly for protection, you should provide a damn good reason for breaking the contract instead of actually mocking him (regardless of reasons, seeing a client get mocked for asking explanations is not confidence building).

Removal of assets and protection of assets are 2 very different things, and while you may be good at the former, the latter is in question.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#629 - 2016-11-18 03:01:11 UTC
Balancing the satisfaction of a clients with conflicting interests when one is paying you dramatically more than the other is a fairly predictable situation. The guy paying you less gets it in the neck.

Could this have been handled better? Yes, absolutely. Is it unreasonable or inappropriate for VMG to use their position to provide maximum satisfaction to the more lucrative client? Not at all, in fact they'd be stupid if they didn't.

They probably should have been smarter about it though. (but what can you expect, it's Khromius after all)
IChooseYou
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Holdings
#630 - 2016-11-18 03:32:23 UTC  |  Edited by: IChooseYou
Vimsy, it is the fact that they did it after asking me to change my timers to their TZ and without warning or diplomacy that makes it such that they cannot be trusted. These guys make a living on defence contracts. The only way they can justify people paying them several bil up front is if they can build some sort of trust with their clients. For example, people are willing to pay Chribba up front because they trust him - even though they don't actually trust their counterpart in a given transaction. No one in eve needs to be trust worthy, but there are several benefits associated with being so.

VMG had built a reputation in many people's eyes and threw it away for no reason other than a few extra bil. Petty and shortsighted for such a large organization in my opinion.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#631 - 2016-11-18 03:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Like I said, the situation itself is pretty normal, it was just handled unusually badly and by badly I mean badly for you. I'm sure both VMG and whoever paid them to shoot your citadel are happy enough with the situation.

VMG and Khromius specifically are by all standards exceptionally trustworthy, and I say that as someone who would rather have teeth pulled than have a conversation with Khromius. He usually takes mercenary work and diplomacy more seriously than I honestly think any human being should.

As much as I'd like it to just be the case that Khrom is a fuckbag who screws clients over on a whim that just isn't consistent with any interaction I've ever had with him over the course of the last several years. I can only conclude that this is either just an unfortunate exception, or that something legitimately unusual happened behind the scenes.
Secca Trild
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#632 - 2016-11-18 04:39:52 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Like I said, the situation itself is pretty normal, it was just handled unusually badly and by badly I mean badly for you. I'm sure both VMG and whoever paid them to shoot your citadel are happy enough with the situation.

VMG and Khromius specifically are by all standards exceptionally trustworthy, and I say that as someone who would rather have teeth pulled than have a conversation with Khromius. He usually takes mercenary work and diplomacy more seriously than I honestly think any human being should.

As much as I'd like it to just be the case that Khrom is a fuckbag who screws clients over on a whim that just isn't consistent with any interaction I've ever had with him over the course of the last several years. I can only conclude that this is either just an unfortunate exception, or that something legitimately unusual happened behind the scenes.


Is it normal to take a contract and then immediately go back on it now? As far as I was aware those kind of actions used to get you removed from the merc contracts channel as untrustworthy or scamming. Infact most merc groups would specifically state they did not take counter contracts. Is everyone doing this now?
Chesterfield Fancypantz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#633 - 2016-11-18 04:42:15 UTC
I came here from reddit, but I thought I would put in my 2 cents.

As a previous mercenary I feel sick by the actions made by VMG. I don't care what sort of "intelligence" you received, when you go from protecting a fortizar, to evicting a fortizar, you're acting in a dishonourable manner.

I understand you are mercenaries, but your business is based on your trust and your word and IMHO you have tarnished both here.

You were hired to protect his fortizar, got a better offer, and decided to stab one of your clients in the back. You convinced him to change his timers to suit your eviction team, and promptly ****** your clients in the ass.

You should feel shame, and I would not recommend your service to anyone.
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#634 - 2016-11-18 04:58:29 UTC
moontitties wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Trolls lol.

Lol, bro... Don't talk 'bout me like ya know me. CoolBlink


I don't know you lol because Repo were good when? In fact I don't think anyone here knows you.
Rosal Milag
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#635 - 2016-11-18 06:23:13 UTC
Your group needs to issue a public statement with full disclosure of what happened. Names and specific details are not necessary but right now the general feeling is that your word is not worth the ink used for the contract. Your company accepted a defense contract then immediately broke it. Any future client is going to want to know why. Otherwise, they will wonder if they are next.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#636 - 2016-11-18 06:27:46 UTC
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
moontitties wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Trolls lol.

Lol, bro... Don't talk 'bout me like ya know me. CoolBlink


I don't know you lol because Repo were good when? In fact I don't think anyone here knows you.


I'm sure a few people will be unknowing you after they see this short-sighted money grab.

Either way props on the scam.
IChooseYou
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Holdings
#637 - 2016-11-18 06:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
Rosal Milag wrote:
Your group needs to issue a public statement with full disclosure of what happened. Names and specific details are not necessary but right now the general feeling is that your word is not worth the ink used for the contract. Your company accepted a defense contract then immediately broke it. Any future client is going to want to know why. Otherwise, they will wonder if they are next.


There is no good answer for them to give. This *snip* See moderation post. *snip* shows that they just took on another client and betrayed me.
Djayzere
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#638 - 2016-11-18 07:44:18 UTC
Guess its true what they say, the bad customers who pay little for alot are the highest maintaince, I mean as soon as the war dec goes in you threaten them, post rubbish all over their thread.

If this is how you act as a businessman couldnt imagine for one second why they would want to cut you as a client.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#639 - 2016-11-18 10:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Secca Trild wrote:
Is it normal to take a contract and then immediately go back on it now? As far as I was aware those kind of actions used to get you removed from the merc contracts channel as untrustworthy or scamming. Infact most merc groups would specifically state they did not take counter contracts. Is everyone doing this now?

Firstly it wasn't immediate, it was two weeks (half way) in to the first period of the contract. Secondly like I said, not exactly what would have been normal would have been for them so tell their client that they were discontinuing their service due to conflicts of interest and then immediately declare war on him at the end of the first period of the contract.

You can't rationally claim it was a scam because not only was the fee refunded, but the intent when the defensive contract was arranged doesn't appear to have been to defraud the client.

But otherwise, yes, discontinuing service in favor of another client is when there's a huge difference between what the clients are paying is entirely usual. The only unusual part is ending the contract mid-period and still actually giving a full refund.

People pay an assload for citadel takedowns because of how tedious and difficult it is, so when arranging a defensive contract both the mercenary and the client need to consider whether or not the monthly fee is sufficient to dissuade the merc from dropping it on a whim the first time someone shows up and offers them tens of billions to kill your fortizar.
Christy Cloud
The Mongo Tree
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#640 - 2016-11-18 11:27:12 UTC
TL:DR for those coming from reddit
Mercs take contract
After client changes defensive timers to be convenient to merc primetime, mercs cancel contract
Mercs take advantage of new defensive timers
Mercs insult client when he's understandably a bit pissed.

Any respectable entity would have a wind down time between cancelling a defensive, and accepting an offensive, contract on the same person.

GG To your rep.

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