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Training 2X faster than what?

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Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#41 - 2016-11-17 16:01:00 UTC
Amanda Chelian wrote:
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.

Its false advertising is what it is.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2016-11-17 16:08:36 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Amanda Chelian wrote:
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.

Its false advertising is what it is.

It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2016-11-17 16:13:49 UTC
All those vets thinking a publicity statement target them when it's clearly targeted at the new players who start as alphas...

Common guys, you are all better than that no?
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2016-11-17 16:48:13 UTC
Right. No need to advertise the game to paying customers. It's those who have not subscribed yet the marketing is aimed at.
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#45 - 2016-11-17 16:52:51 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Amanda Chelian wrote:
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.

Its false advertising is what it is.

It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true.

The wording makes it sound like 2x is what I am paying for. I'm training at 100% not 200% as advertised.
Lifelongnoob's Brother
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2016-11-17 20:13:25 UTC
i'd have liked it if aplha could train only 1 toon per account at normal speed but omega can 2 toons per account at normal speed
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2016-11-17 20:21:38 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
The wording makes it sound like 2x is what I am paying for. I'm training at 100% not 200% as advertised.

Where did they ever define what "100% training speed" is? Without that, it's just a matter of perspective. If you just start the game as an alpha, you train at a certain speed. Once you decide to pay, you get double that. So, Depending on how you look at it, you either train at normal speed, and alphas get half, or alphas train at normal speed, and you get double. Neither one is wrong, since CCP does not guarantee any amount of SP/h anywhere. The only thing they promise is that you get twice the speed as Omega. Could also mean "Twice the speed of a full trash can climbing a mountain" and still wouldn't be a lie.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2016-11-17 21:41:22 UTC
Lifelongnoob's Brother wrote:
i'd have liked it if aplha could train only 1 toon per account at normal speed but omega can 2 toons per account at normal speed


I would of liked to be gifted a Lamborghini but alas, it didn't happen.
Hark'ma
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2016-11-18 00:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hark'ma
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Not sure why you had that expectations. It was always made clear they train slower and omega stays the same



This was no doubt a poor choice of words and is very shady but not dishonest.

Omega train speed was the standard for over a decade. Skill train wording should be based on what has existed for a long time instead of trying to change the narrative.

No doubt it is clear about the training time in the wording. This I am not arguing. But it should say ALPHAS train at HALF speed.

it's just disrespectful to long time paying customers.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2016-11-18 00:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Hark'ma wrote:
No doubt it is clear about the training time in the wording. This I am not arguing. But it should say ALPHAS train at HALF speed.

It's probably better to spin it in a way that paying customers get a bonus, not that freeloaders get gimped, even though that's exactly what it is from our point of view. We know the game a bit, or at least we should. Most of us are smart enough not to expect to just get double training speed for no reason. (some do, though. welp)

Keep in mind, that going free to play is quite a big step. It just isn't the same system anymore that it used to be for a decade, and for those who never played eve before - and those are the people targeted by this - it would look really weird if they got slapped with "Yo, you can play for free, but then we will artificially nerf your game" right from the get-go.

Paying for the game has been the norm for the longest time, but it isn't anymore. Now, paying is a good and welcome, but optional thing, that you get something extra for. And that's what they are trying to convey. Yes it's a bit disrespectful towards the old players to tell them they are training at 2x speed now, even though they didn't get any boost at all. But now that they are marketing Eve as F2P, it would be even more disrespectful to new players that aren't paying (yet) if they basically told them that they merely tolerate them, but still expect them to pay to actually play the full game.
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#51 - 2016-11-21 19:15:10 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Amanda Chelian wrote:
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.

Its false advertising is what it is.

It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true.

Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13?
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#52 - 2016-11-21 19:16:19 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
The wording makes it sound like 2x is what I am paying for. I'm training at 100% not 200% as advertised.

Where did they ever define what "100% training speed" is? Without that, it's just a matter of perspective. If you just start the game as an alpha, you train at a certain speed. Once you decide to pay, you get double that. So, Depending on how you look at it, you either train at normal speed, and alphas get half, or alphas train at normal speed, and you get double. Neither one is wrong, since CCP does not guarantee any amount of SP/h anywhere. The only thing they promise is that you get twice the speed as Omega. Could also mean "Twice the speed of a full trash can climbing a mountain" and still wouldn't be a lie.

Pre F2P defined that as there was 2 values. nothing and 100% speed. So yes they defined it. I think CCP will end up in court over this one.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2016-11-21 20:57:41 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Amanda Chelian wrote:
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.

Its false advertising is what it is.

It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true.

Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13?


Because you are paying for the same service as you used to before so you get the same service. An alpha account on the other hand will see it's training speed double if they decide to subscribe.
Pendra Tahyan
Doomheim
#54 - 2016-11-21 21:31:59 UTC
This discussion is kind of stupid. It's pretty obvious that the 2x training speed is from a Alpha's point of view since the marketing is targeted at them.

How tasty would it sound if CCP told the Alphas that: You get to play for free but we gimp you severly by limiting your training. It's not shady or dishonest but simple marketing.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2016-11-21 21:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13?

I assume if you were training anything on November 13th you did pay before November 15th, did you not? So nothing changed for you. You already trained twice as fast as Alphas do now, so it still holds true. If you really thought you'd be getting twice the training speed you had before for no reason beyond a sudden fit of entitlement, I'm sorry to say you are a bit of an idiot. But I trust you don't and just brought this up for the sake of argument.

If you desparately want to complain about anything, complain that you trained "infinetly faster" than somebody who wouldn't pay for their account before Ascension (because they couldn't train at all, or play the game for that matter), and now you only train twice as fast. But that would be complaining about the whole f2p move, which would be fair, I suppose, but I don't really think will change anything. F2P is here to stay, and they have to train at *some* speed.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2016-11-21 22:32:16 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Amanda Chelian wrote:
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.

Its false advertising is what it is.



I agree.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2016-11-21 22:35:27 UTC
It would be, if it wasn't correct.

Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2016-11-21 23:14:34 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Amanda Chelian wrote:
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.

Its false advertising is what it is.

It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true.

Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13?


Because you are still paying the same amount. on november 13th you where still training at twice the speed as an alpha would have been if they could have been around at the time.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2016-11-21 23:21:52 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Amanda Chelian wrote:
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.

Its false advertising is what it is.

It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true.

The wording makes it sound like 2x is what I am paying for. I'm training at 100% not 200% as advertised.


If you want to make a false advertising case, take it to court, and watch them laugh you out of it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#60 - 2016-11-22 00:31:50 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13?

I assume if you were training anything on November 13th you did pay before November 15th, did you not? So nothing changed for you. You already trained twice as fast as Alphas do now, so it still holds true. If you really thought you'd be getting twice the training speed you had before for no reason beyond a sudden fit of entitlement, I'm sorry to say you are a bit of an idiot. But I trust you don't and just brought this up for the sake of argument.

If you desparately want to complain about anything, complain that you trained "infinetly faster" than somebody who wouldn't pay for their account before Ascension (because they couldn't train at all, or play the game for that matter), and now you only train twice as fast. But that would be complaining about the whole f2p move, which would be fair, I suppose, but I don't really think will change anything. F2P is here to stay, and they have to train at *some* speed.

The fact that you feel like you need to call me names tells me I am right and you are just trolling. Have you ever multiplied 2 by 0? 'Twice' as fast as before if you didn't pay is a misnomer in of itself.