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Skewed Hauler Balance for Alphas
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Deckel
Island Paradise
#1 - 2016-11-16 20:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Deckel
Last I saw each Alpha state only allows training to lvl 1 hauler in their race's transports. As I'm sure most of you know, Gallente holds vast superiority with standard Industrial ships in terms of having three commodity specific industrial transports, with Minmatar having one. This imbalance has the possibility of skewing character creation in their favor, as these character will be more useful than the rest.

For fairness I would like to see either all industrial ships become accessible, allocating a single commodity specific ship to each race, or to have commodity specific ships require a training level of 2 to access them, thereby restricting their use by Alpha Clones.
stoicfaux
#2 - 2016-11-16 20:31:57 UTC
I was going to write a pointed and pithy reply, but apparently I've been away from the eve-o forums for too long to do so. Cry

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-11-16 21:13:55 UTC
You're not wrong, but in the big scheme of things it's a pretty minimal concern.

PI skills are heavily restricted, so they wouldn't get much mileage out of the Epithal anyway. Mining, they're pretty much limited to ventures, so the Miasmos isn't a huge loss, either, especially with free compression being literally everywhere.

And the mineral hauler... don't think I've ever bothered with that one, myself.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Deckel
Island Paradise
#4 - 2016-11-16 21:25:11 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
You're not wrong, but in the big scheme of things it's a pretty minimal concern.

PI skills are heavily restricted, so they wouldn't get much mileage out of the Epithal anyway. Mining, they're pretty much limited to ventures, so the Miasmos isn't a huge loss, either, especially with free compression being literally everywhere.

And the mineral hauler... don't think I've ever bothered with that one, myself.


It may not matter so much if it was only in terms of hauling your own acquired stuff, but EVE is a market game. Buy low, transport and sell high.
There is a big difference between transporting 10000m2 of compressed ore, T4 PI, or Megacyte etc and 30000m2 in terms of what becomes a viable and profitable activity.
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#5 - 2016-11-16 21:49:24 UTC
And amarr characters are better at lasers.

And Minmatar characters are better at autocannons.

I fail to see the point here. Sure, if you want an alpha hauler maybe you roll gallente. So what?
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-11-16 22:30:52 UTC
Deckel wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
You're not wrong, but in the big scheme of things it's a pretty minimal concern.

PI skills are heavily restricted, so they wouldn't get much mileage out of the Epithal anyway. Mining, they're pretty much limited to ventures, so the Miasmos isn't a huge loss, either, especially with free compression being literally everywhere.

And the mineral hauler... don't think I've ever bothered with that one, myself.


It may not matter so much if it was only in terms of hauling your own acquired stuff, but EVE is a market game. Buy low, transport and sell high.
There is a big difference between transporting 10000m2 of compressed ore, T4 PI, or Megacyte etc and 30000m2 in terms of what becomes a viable and profitable activity.


Lol where are alphas gonna get the kind of money to drop on 30000compressed ore and transport it.
Deckel
Island Paradise
#7 - 2016-11-16 22:41:57 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:


Lol where are alphas gonna get the kind of money to drop on 30000compressed ore and transport it.


With compressed Veld, that's only around 5-6 hundred mil, if that. Get some luck on a few good drops doing sites, WHs, wealthy patrons, or primary alts and it really doesn't take that long to reach. It is possible to make a ton of isk even with cheap ships/fits.
Pendra Tahyan
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-11-16 22:54:44 UTC
Every industrial ship have different strengths and thus no single race can be said to have 'better' industrials. Gallente have more diversity which I guess give them a slight advantage but it's not a unfair difference in my opinion.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#9 - 2016-11-17 00:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternus8lux8lucis
Pendra Tahyan wrote:
Every industrial ship have different strengths and thus no single race can be said to have 'better' industrials. Gallente have more diversity which I guess give them a slight advantage but it's not a unfair difference in my opinion.

No the skew to gallente haulers is heavy and has been for years since the Iteron Mk V was the king of hauling years ago before the bestower took the title and the gallente got the most useful special holds.


I suggested that all the haulers get a double split bonus and another generic skill like the old destroyers and battlecruisers. That the racial skill gave special hold bonus and the generic was the speed/agility bonus which are the two main bonuses on each industrial ship. If the Generic skill is a rank 1 and the racial is reduced to rank 2 the training time to L5 is the same as the rank 3 racial figures and takes a bit less to cross train haulers. I think that suggestion fell on deaf ears.

This change would allow everyone to pilot all the haulers, but only their own race at any decent m3 amounts but possibly with better speed/agility dependent on the hull bonus itself.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-11-17 00:57:15 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Pendra Tahyan wrote:
Every industrial ship have different strengths and thus no single race can be said to have 'better' industrials. Gallente have more diversity which I guess give them a slight advantage but it's not a unfair difference in my opinion.

No the skew to gallente haulers is heavy and has been for years since the Iteron Mk V was the king of hauling years ago before the bestower took the title and the gallente got the most useful special holds.


I suggested that all the haulers get a double split bonus and another generic skill like the old destroyers and battlecruisers. That the racial skill gave special hold bonus and the generic was the speed/agility bonus which are the two main bonuses on each industrial ship. If the Generic skill is a rank 1 and the racial is reduced to rank 2 the training time to L5 is the same as the rank 3 racial figures and takes a bit less to cross train haulers. I think that suggestion fell on deaf ears.

This change would allow everyone to pilot all the haulers, but only their own race at any decent m3 amounts but possibly with better speed/agility dependent on the hull bonus itself.

Or they could pay $15 a month and solve the problem completely.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Memphis Baas
#11 - 2016-11-17 02:20:17 UTC
CCP has hinted that they may rebalance the Alpha ships (including industrials) in the future. Obviously, it will take a bit of time, and currently they're busy with fixing the remaining bugs from the expansion.

It's only been 2 days. Patience.

Or..., start another free account / free character right away, and make it Gallente for the win, this time.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-11-17 03:33:09 UTC
Really, it should be "Skewed everything balance for Alphas". Gallente are pretty much the best for Alphas atm, except for a few specific use cases.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#13 - 2016-11-17 03:37:00 UTC
Deckel wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
You're not wrong, but in the big scheme of things it's a pretty minimal concern.

PI skills are heavily restricted, so they wouldn't get much mileage out of the Epithal anyway. Mining, they're pretty much limited to ventures, so the Miasmos isn't a huge loss, either, especially with free compression being literally everywhere.

And the mineral hauler... don't think I've ever bothered with that one, myself.


It may not matter so much if it was only in terms of hauling your own acquired stuff, but EVE is a market game. Buy low, transport and sell high.
There is a big difference between transporting 10000m2 of compressed ore, T4 PI, or Megacyte etc and 30000m2 in terms of what becomes a viable and profitable activity.

I agree with your OP and on the other hand wonder why, if you want a character for hauling, wouldn't you just create a Gallente alpha?

It's not like it costs anything. Roll one of each race.
Ghazgul
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-11-17 03:40:06 UTC
Deckel wrote:
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:


Lol where are alphas gonna get the kind of money to drop on 30000compressed ore and transport it.


With compressed Veld, that's only around 5-6 hundred mil, if that. Get some luck on a few good drops doing sites, WHs, wealthy patrons, or primary alts and it really doesn't take that long to reach. It is possible to make a ton of isk even with cheap ships/fits.

Hauling 500+ million in a T1? Yeah...great idea...

*ahem * Waaagh, cretins
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#15 - 2016-11-17 04:04:03 UTC
Ghazgul wrote:
Deckel wrote:
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:


Lol where are alphas gonna get the kind of money to drop on 30000compressed ore and transport it.


With compressed Veld, that's only around 5-6 hundred mil, if that. Get some luck on a few good drops doing sites, WHs, wealthy patrons, or primary alts and it really doesn't take that long to reach. It is possible to make a ton of isk even with cheap ships/fits.

Hauling 500+ million in a T1? Yeah...great idea...



Ever been to this place called Jita?

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#16 - 2016-11-17 04:09:50 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Really, it should be "Skewed everything balance for Alphas". Gallente are pretty much the best for Alphas atm, except for a few specific use cases.

We all shall welcome our new Gallente Overlords with songs and dancing and liberal libations!!

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.