These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Drake changes from CSM minutes.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#21 - 2012-01-18 17:41:04 UTC
*shrug*
there are more important ship rebalances imo before the drake
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#22 - 2012-01-18 17:46:30 UTC
Elindreal wrote:
*shrug*
there are more important ship rebalances imo before the drake


^ this, too.
Brotha Umad
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-01-18 18:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Brotha Umad
Brilliant idea ! Please take the only shield-tank BC, (cyclone ? is that a ship ?) and turn it into another weak lolHAMs gank boat.

Honestly I am disappointed. Finding a nerf should be easy for CCP, they have shown they know how to make a bad ship.
Lili Lu
#24 - 2012-01-18 18:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Munio J Makeanen wrote:
Disagree
Drake is one of the only viable ships in the Caldari Line up

If they do not change the stupid em resist hole across the board it is a very bad decision.

If they do this Nerf the dam Hurricane as well

Hmm, so you posted this on your 2-month old alt. But I have to wonder whether your main is any older.

Drakes do everything, what is wrong with that?

Of course no other ships have resist holes. It is a travesty that an altered drake won't have a resist bonus to plug the em hole. That would surely make it uniquely bad. And where are the mods that can rectify this. Please keep the Drake the same as it currently is. Games should be easy, that is what makes them enjoyable. I don't want to think that my ship could ever die Sad

/end sarcasm
As for the Hurricane, how do you propose to nerf it? It's not enough to pout about the nerf to your favorite toy and cry for Jimmy's toy to also get nerfed. Come up with some ideas.
Lili Lu
#25 - 2012-01-18 18:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Brotha Umad wrote:
Brilliant idea ! Please take the only shield-tank BC, (cyclone ? is that a ship ?) and turn it into another weak lolHAMs gank boat.

Honestly I am disappointed. Finding a nerf should be easy for CCP, they have shown they know how to make a bad ship.

It appears you missed Ytterbiums post in the long thread in general discussion. Go find it. They are finally maybe going to do something about tier 1 BCs and Cruisers. Instead of just a Drake you may have other options such as a Cyclone if you want to fly shield and missiles.

edit- oh and the Hurricane is usually shield tanked btw even though it has only 4 mids and no em resist bonus.
Drake McCann
#26 - 2012-01-18 18:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake McCann
No, nO, NoO and NOOO

I did not switch to caldari and name my character "Drake" to play the Drake with the resistance bonus taken out and as an offensive boat.
I like it as it is, a tank for pve ..

Seriously no, don't do this.
Lili Lu
#27 - 2012-01-18 18:37:18 UTC
Drake McCann wrote:
No, nO, NoO and NOOO

I did not switch to caldari and name my character "Drake" to play the Drake with the resistance bonus taken out and as an offensive boat, I like it as it is, a tank for pve ..

Seriously no, don't do this.

SadP
Kaede Kimura
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-01-18 18:38:28 UTC
Oh the EFT warrior tears... I look forward to "omg drake is an infinite range pwnmobile!" threads if the changes go through. Yeah you lose some tank, but you'll sing a different tune when drakes are hitting your weakest resist for maximum damage every time.
At least wait for the changes to go live before starting the threads.
Tsai Ashitaka
Caidin Global Academy
#29 - 2012-01-18 18:44:21 UTC
Quote:
CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus.


Yeah, because the Caracal and Raven are so regularly seen in PvP ops.

The drake may be a jack of all trades, but it is a master of none. If you're doing L4s in a drake, it's suboptimal. If you're doing small gang pvp in a drake, you're missing out on the dps and maneuverability of smaller, faster cruisers. If you're doing large scale fleet pvp in a drake, you're missing out on instantaneous damage and high alpha strikes.

The drake performs well in many roles, but there are ships that can perform vastly better in each one. Changing the bonuses to fall into line with two of the least used pvp ships will almost completely eliminate the Caldari lineup from pvp.

One of the biggest complaints about heavy missiles is its incredible damage projection. Why on earth would CCP propose increasing its range further?
Lili Lu
#30 - 2012-01-18 19:06:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Tsai Ashitaka wrote:
Quote:
CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus.


Yeah, because the Caracal and Raven are so regularly seen in PvP ops.

The drake may be a jack of all trades, but it is a master of none. If you're doing L4s in a drake, it's suboptimal. If you're doing small gang pvp in a drake, you're missing out on the dps and maneuverability of smaller, faster cruisers. If you're doing large scale fleet pvp in a drake, you're missing out on instantaneous damage and high alpha strikes.

The drake performs well in many roles, but there are ships that can perform vastly better in each one. Changing the bonuses to fall into line with two of the least used pvp ships will almost completely eliminate the Caldari lineup from pvp.

One of the biggest complaints about heavy missiles is its incredible damage projection. Why on earth would CCP propose increasing its range further?

The Naga has no resist bonus, yet it is getting some use in pvp. The Mael has no resist bonus . . .

The Caracal get's little use because it is a cruiser. Cruisers appear headed for a buff. This should in theory help everybody and increase diversity in the game.

The Raven suffers from cruise missile extreme delayed damage aversion as far as large fleet pvp. For close range and smaller scale pvp torp Ravens are still possible.

The missile velocity bonus is probably being proposed for the benfit of HAM usage. The bonus could go largely wasted on HM if you continue to view it as a range buff unless you sacrifice a mid to sensor booster, which further cuts into tank. You can't have everything. Alternately, HMs already can get more range than other Medium weapons, so a slight HM range nerf may be part of the balancing changes. This has been hinted at in the past. I think the velocity buff is more for reducing delayed damage aversion, not for providing range that is largely useless with the probing mechanics being what they are now.

Instant damage in current drake blobs does not matter, because the entire fleet is damage delayed. Will drakes not be seen anymore? I doubt it. One could foresee trully mixed shield BC fleets. Honestly, delayed damage on missiles is not such a big deal if the entier fleet is in closer.

I don't know why people are not looking at changes as an opening to more interesting gameplay. I would really love to see fewer monoculture fleets and more thematic fleets that include entire ship classes in them. Drake blobs, Baddon blobs, Mael blobs, all sorta boring. Nice to see with Hybrid buff that Mael blobs are becoming more loosely Mael and Rokh. Would be good to see Baddons mixed with a Gallente ship as well.

There appear to be more ship changes coming than just a Drake nerf. People should seriously wait to see what hits the test server. If the Drake becomes equivalent to a current prophecy then commence the outrage, and I'll be there right with you. However, it seems finally that CCP has put some serious effort into ship balancing and we may get a set of very interesting and good ship changes. Be optimistic. Afterall, hasn't just train a Drake been pretty boring?
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-01-18 19:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Yeah, I'm not sure what the CSM was smoking when they said "offensive" and "range bonus" at the same time.

Edit: Double DPS (5% Rof and 5% kinetic) bonuses.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#32 - 2012-01-18 19:34:08 UTC
They'd better cut off some grid and replace resistance bonus with shield boost amount one - in this case fugly things won't be overtanked that much. Regular overtanking with 2 LSEs will prolly still remain possible, but at least will get punished by wasting 1 ship bonus.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#33 - 2012-01-18 19:42:21 UTC
Munio J Makeanen wrote:
Disagree
Drake is one of the only viable ships in the Caldari Line up


That statement is so laughably wrong.
Hoskoal Ricks
#34 - 2012-01-18 19:55:18 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Edit: Double DPS (5% Rof and 5% kinetic) bonuses.


So basically, it'll be even better for gang blobs and marginally worse at pve. Op success.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-01-18 20:38:08 UTC
Hoskoal Ricks wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Edit: Double DPS (5% Rof and 5% kinetic) bonuses.


So basically, it'll be even better for gang blobs and marginally worse at pve. Op success.



Its only marginal in blobs.

Not to mention that more pew would enhance it in small gang rolls and it may see use over a cane. I can fly both, love the cane....I.HATE.being.stuck.in.a.drake.
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-01-18 20:44:00 UTC
Even without resistance bonuses. Drakes have alot of defence. More damage might be a bad idea.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-01-18 20:51:10 UTC
RoF bonus: Actually, this is a good replacement for the current Kinetic bonus on the Drake, giving it the flexibility that it sorely needs as a missile platform. Having to lose a full 20% of your damage when you switch damage types actually does suck. (Ask any Tengu pilot who is running L4s against Bloods and Sanshas). It also makes the Drake a bit gankier overall, which would be in line with the Harbinger and Hurricane (the current state of 2 gank and 2 tank BCs at the same tier is rather...strange, if you ask me, considering that the tier1 BCs are all tank boats).

Missile velocity bonus: I can see what they are trying to accomplish here, increasing HAM range while reducing missile delay annoyances. Nerfing HML range (i.e. flight time) overall would probably be a good complement to this, as the Drake shouldn't be a >100km sniper platform (even the Hurricane or Harbinger in a shield + long range turret fit is going to struggle to put good DPS down at 100km away, and that's using LR T2 ammo such as Tremor or Aurora). Ideally, you're looking giving HMLs roughly 80% of their current flight time. The Cerb and Tengu would get their velocity bonuses buffed to 15% per level in this case (which is a slight range nerf for both ships, but not a major factor; either that or you reduce HML flight time to 75% of its current value and then the Cerb and Tengu would still put up their old numbers with a 15%/level velocity bonus while the Drake takes the ding on missile range).

As to the Myrmidon: a 5%/level hybrid damage bonus would make it too ganky due to the high drone DPS output of this ship. Perhaps either 10%/level to hybrid tracking or falloff, to make fitting blasters (or rails) a more attractive option vs. fitting autocannons? (A Caldari-style 10%/level bonus to hybrid optimal would also be workable, and contrasts well with the Brutix in this case.)
I Legionnaire
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-01-18 21:29:52 UTC
The Drake seems fine to me tbh, if any BC needs a nerf it's the Hurricane.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#39 - 2012-01-18 21:34:56 UTC
The ROF bonus is a boost for sure. The Missile Velocity bonus OTOH..... I dunno. Not such a fan of that particular approach.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Palladias
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-01-18 21:40:23 UTC
I could really care less what they do with the drake so long as the ferox and med rails get some love. I long for the day when I can take one of these for a spin with my artycane bros.