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Mission Rokh
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Umega
Solis Mensa
#21 - 2012-01-17 22:15:03 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Before Crucible 350mm rails were best suited for a Rokh due mainly to PG, is that no longer the case?


Is no longer the case. Something like 12% pg down and I forget how much cpu for grid requirements per turret since Crucible.

Goose99 wrote:

Also tracking. Among other things why rails fail. Fit ACs and win like Winmatar.Cool


In your own words.. one would see since arty are of worse tracking than rails, that means arty are fail. Is that what you are saying? Certainly looks like it.

425 rohk out dps, tracks, optimal a 1400mm rohk.. not too mention a **** ton easier to fit on pg with 425s over 1400s nowadays.

And a javelin 425 rohk is only out dps'd in your propless AC rohk out to 15km.. then 425 rohk wins by a widening margin the further the range gets.

So answer this.. are you saying arty are fail cause they are worse tracking than rails? Are you saying arty fail cause they are harder to fit on pg than 425s?


 Ume-Pro Studios
Goose99
#22 - 2012-01-17 23:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Umega wrote:
Headerman wrote:
Before Crucible 350mm rails were best suited for a Rokh due mainly to PG, is that no longer the case?


Is no longer the case. Something like 12% pg down and I forget how much cpu for grid requirements per turret since Crucible.

Goose99 wrote:

Also tracking. Among other things why rails fail. Fit ACs and win like Winmatar.Cool


In your own words.. one would see since arty are of worse tracking than rails, that means arty are fail. Is that what you are saying? Certainly looks like it.

425 rohk out dps, tracks, optimal a 1400mm rohk.. not too mention a **** ton easier to fit on pg with 425s over 1400s nowadays.

And a javelin 425 rohk is only out dps'd in your propless AC rohk out to 15km.. then 425 rohk wins by a widening margin the further the range gets.

So answer this.. are you saying arty are fail cause they are worse tracking than rails? Are you saying arty fail cause they are harder to fit on pg than 425s?




If you use 1400s instead of ACs, you indeed fail.Bear

As for prop, easy, fit one instead of a 3rd hardner in your blaster fit. Oh wait, there's no grid. Duh, blaster with no prop.Lol
Oh well, at least there's grid on my AC fit for one when you drop the same 3rd hardner, not that 50km falloff isn't enough in most cases.

On Rokh, ACs outdps both rails and null blasters, and has falloff of 50km. Fun fact: Half falloff = 85% dps, far edge of 100% falloff = 50%. As for rail tracking or blaster optimal, dps application isn't so kind...

Oh, and it's all dmg type selectable. Good luck with Angel, Sansha, Bloodraider, drones, etc.
Umega
Solis Mensa
#23 - 2012-01-17 23:36:25 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Umega wrote:
Headerman wrote:
Before Crucible 350mm rails were best suited for a Rokh due mainly to PG, is that no longer the case?


Is no longer the case. Something like 12% pg down and I forget how much cpu for grid requirements per turret since Crucible.

Goose99 wrote:

Also tracking. Among other things why rails fail. Fit ACs and win like Winmatar.Cool


In your own words.. one would see since arty are of worse tracking than rails, that means arty are fail. Is that what you are saying? Certainly looks like it.

425 rohk out dps, tracks, optimal a 1400mm rohk.. not too mention a **** ton easier to fit on pg with 425s over 1400s nowadays.

And a javelin 425 rohk is only out dps'd in your propless AC rohk out to 15km.. then 425 rohk wins by a widening margin the further the range gets.

So answer this.. are you saying arty are fail cause they are worse tracking than rails? Are you saying arty fail cause they are harder to fit on pg than 425s?




If you use 1400s instead of ACs, you indeed fail.Bear

As for prop, easy, fit one instead of a 3rd hardner in your blaster fit. Oh wait, there's no grid. Duh, blaster with no prop.Lol
Oh well, at least there's grid on my AC fit for one when you drop the same 3rd hardner, not that 50km falloff isn't enough in most cases.

On Rokh, ACs outdps both rails and null blasters, and has falloff of 50km. Fun fact: Half falloff = 85% dps, far edge of 100% falloff = 50%. As for rail tracking or blaster optimal, dps application isn't so kind...

Oh, and it's all dmg type selectable. Good luck with Angel, Sansha, Bloodraider, drones, etc.


You know what.. don't stop talking. I think I rather bury your tiny amount of crediablity into the ground. You are infact doing a pretty good job of it on your own. And obviously completely ignored one of my posts that shot your pve AC-rohk vs blohk into oblivion.

I'll say it again.. 697 gun dps AC-faction ammo rohk. 778 gun dps Null-blohk. 550 AC gun dps when at 24km where the null still maintains 778 gun dps. That is quite a large gap. Not only does a null rohk beat an AC using faction ammo at point blank (where you can switch to AM for better tracking than AC, and another 100 or so added on dps as well as save isk over a faction ammo pve-AC), it wins all the way to the end. Care to comment on how you prove AC dps wins? Please do try.

Remember.. 697 ish faction ammo-AC dps. Not the number you quoted before which counted drone dmg.. and did not apply drone dmg to the null numbers. Is your mind so twisted that you have to fabricate and lie to people to feel worth while?

 Ume-Pro Studios
Goose99
#24 - 2012-01-17 23:53:01 UTC
Umega wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Umega wrote:
Headerman wrote:
Before Crucible 350mm rails were best suited for a Rokh due mainly to PG, is that no longer the case?


Is no longer the case. Something like 12% pg down and I forget how much cpu for grid requirements per turret since Crucible.

Goose99 wrote:

Also tracking. Among other things why rails fail. Fit ACs and win like Winmatar.Cool


In your own words.. one would see since arty are of worse tracking than rails, that means arty are fail. Is that what you are saying? Certainly looks like it.

425 rohk out dps, tracks, optimal a 1400mm rohk.. not too mention a **** ton easier to fit on pg with 425s over 1400s nowadays.

And a javelin 425 rohk is only out dps'd in your propless AC rohk out to 15km.. then 425 rohk wins by a widening margin the further the range gets.

So answer this.. are you saying arty are fail cause they are worse tracking than rails? Are you saying arty fail cause they are harder to fit on pg than 425s?




If you use 1400s instead of ACs, you indeed fail.Bear

As for prop, easy, fit one instead of a 3rd hardner in your blaster fit. Oh wait, there's no grid. Duh, blaster with no prop.Lol
Oh well, at least there's grid on my AC fit for one when you drop the same 3rd hardner, not that 50km falloff isn't enough in most cases.

On Rokh, ACs outdps both rails and null blasters, and has falloff of 50km. Fun fact: Half falloff = 85% dps, far edge of 100% falloff = 50%. As for rail tracking or blaster optimal, dps application isn't so kind...

Oh, and it's all dmg type selectable. Good luck with Angel, Sansha, Bloodraider, drones, etc.


You know what.. don't stop talking. I think I rather bury your tiny amount of crediablity into the ground. You are infact doing a pretty good job of it on your own. And obviously completely ignored one of my posts that shot your pve AC-rohk vs blohk into oblivion.

I'll say it again.. 697 gun dps AC-faction ammo rohk. 778 gun dps Null-blohk. 550 AC gun dps when at 24km where the null still maintains 778 gun dps. That is quite a large gap. Not only does a null rohk beat an AC using faction ammo at point blank (where you can switch to AM for better tracking than AC, and another 100 or so added on dps as well as save isk over a faction ammo pve-AC), it wins all the way to the end. Care to comment on how you prove AC dps wins? Please do try.

Remember.. 697 ish faction ammo-AC dps. Not the number you quoted before which counted drone dmg.. and did not apply drone dmg to the null numbers. Is your mind so twisted that you have to fabricate and lie to people to feel worth while?


Lol, nice EFT warrioring. It's 779 gun only dps with Hail, same 50km falloff, if you want to use T2 ammo. Have you considered that rats may be further than 24km on your blaster Rokh that doesn't have grid to fit prop?Lol

For the really far rats there's always Barrage. But I guess your propless blasterboat is already using Null.
Umega
Solis Mensa
#25 - 2012-01-18 00:54:00 UTC
I never said propless pve rohk is good idea. Infact I said otherwise.

And you're the dumb ass that posted a propless AC rohk. Don't pin your own stupidity on me.

Oh, Hail huh. Ammo swapping? Tell everyone the numbers on AM and void for blohk. 779 vs 920ish-1060ish dps. Good arguement there. Lets use your 'selectable dmg type' clause too. This, was stated by OP, in Caldari space. Meaning the majority will be vs Guristas, even null is better than hail.. not too mention the other two blaster ammo types to use. Serps.. again blaster wipes your hail arguement, and especially on Sansha. The three most common types to see in Caldari missions.

Inbetween ranges of 0-24km.. hail goes from 779 to 640. Faction AM goes from 950 to 675ish. Not even accounting for tracking difference. Then switch to null and watch the difference esculate even higher beyond 24km.

So not only is your idea less effective in killing power and racking in more rat bounties per hour.. but it is also going to cost you more in ammo given you will have the greater RoF that gives u AC dps, ontop of more misses from both tracking and fighting further into falloff.. both compounding with the AC RoF.

Brilliant idea when L4s is about isk/hr.

So how are you going to sidestep your fail this time?

 Ume-Pro Studios
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-01-18 02:04:51 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Rail is the way to go, especially with the pg buff. 425s tracking may be bad, but Rokh has lots of mid slots, which means TCs that can be scripted for tracking on the go. It will hit down to cruisers at mid range just fine. There are drones for anything smaller. Also, range is never an issue. One less thing to worry about.

And yes, Autocannons work fine too. 50km, or 75km with Barrage, is long enough to cover most missions, even without mwd, while putting out more dps than Rails. This is what happens on a Caldari gunboat without damage bonus.

Post patch changes, Rokh does have the pg to fit ab/mwd along with 8 neutron. That said, chasing after rats to 24km in a fat Rokh is re-tarded. Blasters for mission isn't going to be efficient, not before, not now, nor ever.
Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#27 - 2012-01-18 20:48:37 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Yabba Addict wrote:
Oh for certain missions i'd definitely be using a blaster setup, though faction ammo in PVE is going a bit far i think P

Most people use faction ammo in pve, rails/blasters/artys/tach/pulses all usually use faction ammo, AC's are debatable since the RoF is so high, but generally the high DPS increase is the worth cost


No. It's not worth it in PvE. Stop fooling people into buying your faction ammo.
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#28 - 2012-01-20 03:26:00 UTC
Lenier Chenal wrote:
No. It's not worth it in PvE. Stop fooling people into buying your faction ammo.



This, most of the time. Marauders can be a case where it could be okay to use them given its halving of weapons but 100% damage boost. For this here rokh though...nah. Projectile and missile ammo which have way better damage type specificity is where I saw it used best. But I am a cheap ass...still went back to vanilla t1 ammo after some trial runs lol. this guns and missiles ( I can do hybrids, projectiles and missiles on gallente, minny, caldari, angel and gurista ships). If crystals any better I can't say, don' shoot lazer beams (yet, anyway).


Your normal 6- 8 weapon slingers though...pve its a waste of lp imo (if trading them in for that). Faction ammo was not omfg this is so fast to me. Sure as hell wasn't fast enough to ditch my SOP of making vanilla t1 ammo from crap loot meltdowns. Stuff not worth to haul to a hub...melt and mix mins with bp and its real cheap ammo (won't call it free, makes the obsessive indies and isk/hour zealots mad lol).
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