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Best subcap ship to defend a on grid rorq in industrial mode?
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Insistence
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-11-12 19:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Insistence
Just like the title says. In preparation for the rorqageddon i have a few accounts to multibox with. While i skill up for more rorqs, i would like the other chars able to defend my rorq for the inevitable incoming pirates.

Im torn between:

A cloaked bhaalgorn with beams and mjd?

Super tanky logi? keep the rorq up long enough for me to spam my alliance channel for help?

Command dessie for anti frig-dessie capabilities?

A railgun rokh with a mjd about 70km out? If they burn towards him, he jumps close to the rokh, and if they fire at the roq, he would be in perfect tracking/optimal range?


Maybe just never use industrial mode, and keep a cyno ready a few hops out at a fort?


Just some thoughts. A few things that i won't be able to really avoid:

-Massive blobs of enemy ships. Smartbomb fit? lawl.

-Titan with DD. im kinda ****** at that point, even with a emergency hull energizer. Luckily i haven't seen many titans in provi.


Keep in mind PANIC only works on mining type ships, so i won't be using it.
Memphis Baas
#2 - 2016-11-12 20:44:05 UTC
You're asking what single ship can defend against a blob of dreads, carriers, and FAXes?
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-11-12 20:47:38 UTC
The Rorqual itself will be able to deal out tons more damage than any single ship your alt brings can deal. If you Rorqual can't handle an enemy fleet, your alt can't either.

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Insistence
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-11-12 20:53:32 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
You're asking what single ship can defend against a blob of dreads, carriers, and FAXes?



no, more like just to help the overall defense of the rorq. the rorq will be pretty tanky on its own, but its a big investment and id like to have something ready to help. its NOT going to help against a big blob like that, but hopefully deter the smaller gangs.


Quote:
The Rorqual itself will be able to deal out tons more damage than any single ship your alt brings can deal. If you Rorqual can't handle an enemy fleet, your alt can't either.


so you're saying no ship i bring will help the rorq out in a pvp situation? i refuse to believe that. sure, its not going to help against the larger blops...but surely there will be times a second ship could help, no?
Memphis Baas
#5 - 2016-11-12 21:16:26 UTC
At this point in the speculation there are two possible scenarios:

1. An attacking fleet forms to hunt Rorquals, and they bring more than enough DPS to deal with multiple Rorquals, defense fleets, and possible capital escalations. Because they don't know what they're going to encounter. So one extra ship is going to be unable to defend against such a large fleet.

2. You're sitting there mining in your Rorqual, with or without your extra ship, and you get spied by a cloaked scout, and based on his report, a fleet forms to take you out and deal specifically with your Rorqual + extra ship. They have the intel, you don't have any intel; advantage them. Once formed, cyno up / local spike, etc, they bring the scissors to your paper.
Insistence
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-11-12 21:25:41 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
At this point in the speculation there are two possible scenarios:

1. An attacking fleet forms to hunt Rorquals, and they bring more than enough DPS to deal with multiple Rorquals, defense fleets, and possible capital escalations. Because they don't know what they're going to encounter. So one extra ship is going to be unable to defend against such a large fleet.

2. You're sitting there mining in your Rorqual, with or without your extra ship, and you get spied by a cloaked scout, and based on his report, a fleet forms to take you out and deal specifically with your Rorqual + extra ship. They have the intel, you don't have any intel; advantage them. Once formed, cyno up / local spike, etc, they bring the scissors to your paper.




yup makes sense. so for the second scenario (first one is kinda impossible) possibly have a second (or even third or fourth) ship with cloaks? that way, they form a fleet specifically for a single rorq, and they get effectively baited?


Soloman Jackson
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2016-11-12 21:26:27 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
At this point in the speculation there are two possible scenarios:

1. An attacking fleet forms to hunt Rorquals, and they bring more than enough DPS to deal with multiple Rorquals, defense fleets, and possible capital escalations. Because they don't know what they're going to encounter. So one extra ship is going to be unable to defend against such a large fleet.

2. You're sitting there mining in your Rorqual, with or without your extra ship, and you get spied by a cloaked scout, and based on his report, a fleet forms to take you out and deal specifically with your Rorqual + extra ship. They have the intel, you don't have any intel; advantage them. Once formed, cyno up / local spike, etc, they bring the scissors to your paper.



They call that Ro-Sham-Boned! Then again if they are flying scissors, the perfect ship would be the Rokh! Rohk beats scissors every time!

“The cold stars spun to the ancient rhythm, the august march of an everlasting symphony. They are old, the stars, and their memory is long.” -Rick Yancey
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2016-11-12 22:54:50 UTC
Ooooooor... maybe the OP can get some friends who also want to mine in PvP-fit Skiffs, fit the Rorqual to provide remote reps, and watch random roaming gangs disintegrate against a swarm of drones.

How did you Veterans start?
Insistence
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-11-12 22:57:27 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Ooooooor... maybe the OP can get some friends...



impossibru.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#10 - 2016-11-12 23:08:52 UTC
That's why the rorq is going to be so good for the null blobs. Nobody is going to poke one unless they've got a whole bunch of capships ready to go, which means... the null blobs.

In the short term, it should mean a few big fights as everyone learns who not to poke, and that they really shouldn't be flying these things without a lot of pain they can inflict on short notice.

A signature :o
Insistence
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-11-12 23:19:55 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
That's why the rorq is going to be so good for the null blobs. Nobody is going to poke one unless they've got a whole bunch of capships ready to go, which means... the null blobs.

In the short term, it should mean a few big fights as everyone learns who not to poke, and that they really shouldn't be flying these things without a lot of pain they can inflict on short notice.



very good point. the capship blobs will be the biggest problem to face. i wonder though... just mining in say a spot with a cyno jammer.... maybe that would be the best protection?
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-11-12 23:32:32 UTC
Okay it may seem like efforts are small by some, but there are people willing to blop a small fleet of battleships on you, or even better some carriers, and a rorqual is worth everything getting their blingblings out, titan bridging and popping you before ******* off immediately. Better than dealing with afk cloakers though. Usually I just figure out whos afk cloaking, and return the afk cloak wherever they are.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#13 - 2016-11-13 07:15:15 UTC
Falcon
Scath Bererund
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-11-13 14:35:39 UTC
A cyno alt

Drop a cyno inhib in belt and have a cyno alt on a safe.

Dreads cant cyno ontop of the rorq but a defence fleet can cyno to the alt
Insistence
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-11-13 14:49:16 UTC
Scath Bererund wrote:
A cyno alt

Drop a cyno inhib in belt and have a cyno alt on a safe.

Dreads cant cyno ontop of the rorq but a defence fleet can cyno to the alt




this. this is a excellent call. quick question, can a rorq cyno out while in industrial mode? probably not? thank you.
Scath Bererund
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2016-11-13 15:19:19 UTC
Insistence wrote:
Scath Bererund wrote:
A cyno alt

Drop a cyno inhib in belt and have a cyno alt on a safe.

Dreads cant cyno ontop of the rorq but a defence fleet can cyno to the alt




this. this is a excellent call. quick question, can a rorq cyno out while in industrial mode? probably not? thank you.


Ok i think you missed the point.

With this system any hostiles dropping dreads on a rorq cant land within 100km. That limits them to either a slow warp or a long range engagment (trading damage for range) . However a subcap defence fleet can cyno in off grid and warp to the rorqs defence.

This stacks the cards in the rorqs favor.

As for blops. A properly fit rorq is a beast and would cause huge amonts of damage to a blops fleet (btw no logi can take a blops bridge) probably to the point a solo rorq would kill more than it's value.

Again the rorq holds all the cards
Insistence
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-11-13 15:30:50 UTC
Scath Bererund wrote:
Insistence wrote:
Scath Bererund wrote:
A cyno alt

Drop a cyno inhib in belt and have a cyno alt on a safe.

Dreads cant cyno ontop of the rorq but a defence fleet can cyno to the alt




this. this is a excellent call. quick question, can a rorq cyno out while in industrial mode? probably not? thank you.


Ok i think you missed the point.

With this system any hostiles dropping dreads on a rorq cant land within 100km. That limits them to either a slow warp or a long range engagment (trading damage for range) . However a subcap defence fleet can cyno in off grid and warp to the rorqs defence.

This stacks the cards in the rorqs favor.

As for blops. A properly fit rorq is a beast and would cause huge amonts of damage to a blops fleet (btw no logi can take a blops bridge) probably to the point a solo rorq would kill more than it's value.

Again the rorq holds all the cards


when you say cyno inhib, are you talking about the hour long ~60M mobile cyno inhibitor?
Memphis Baas
#18 - 2016-11-13 15:33:52 UTC
Nope, industrial mode / siege mode / etc. pretty much make a capital ship immobile for the duration.

Jumping requires 95% - 76% of your capacitor to be full (depending on how high you've trained the Jump Drive Operation skill), so depending on what modules you have active and how much cap they consume, you may not be able to jump away immediately after the industrial mode expires.

Disclaimer:
The types of questions that you're asking seem to indicate that you haven't flown capital ships before, and are planning on the Rorqual to be your first one. And you're planning on taking advantage of Providence's NRDS policies to use it there. That's ok, but when you lose the ship, hopefully you don't blame us for "not giving you enough advice and guidance to prevent that loss", because that's impossible.

You should also read up on Providence and what it's like to live there / how often they have roaming fleets of pirates / PVP'ers come in looking for easy kills. NRDS is NOT high-sec. NRDS is not even NBSI; you'd be much safer as a member of a NBSI alliance within their space, than you are as a neutral non-member in NRDS space.

Finally, no clue if this bug is fixed.
Scath Bererund
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-11-13 15:38:44 UTC
Insistence wrote:
Scath Bererund wrote:
Insistence wrote:
Scath Bererund wrote:
A cyno alt

Drop a cyno inhib in belt and have a cyno alt on a safe.

Dreads cant cyno ontop of the rorq but a defence fleet can cyno to the alt




this. this is a excellent call. quick question, can a rorq cyno out while in industrial mode? probably not? thank you.


Ok i think you missed the point.

With this system any hostiles dropping dreads on a rorq cant land within 100km. That limits them to either a slow warp or a long range engagment (trading damage for range) . However a subcap defence fleet can cyno in off grid and warp to the rorqs defence.

This stacks the cards in the rorqs favor.

As for blops. A properly fit rorq is a beast and would cause huge amonts of damage to a blops fleet (btw no logi can take a blops bridge) probably to the point a solo rorq would kill more than it's value.

Again the rorq holds all the cards


when you say cyno inhib, are you talking about the hour long ~60M mobile cyno inhibitor?


Considering what a rorq can pull in that is small change. Think of it like fiting a DC in a barge
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#20 - 2016-11-13 15:45:12 UTC
Insistence wrote:
Just like the title says. In preparation for the rorqageddon i have a few accounts to multibox with. While i skill up for more rorqs, i would like the other chars able to defend my rorq for the inevitable incoming pirates.

Im torn between:

A cloaked bhaalgorn with beams and mjd?

Super tanky logi? keep the rorq up long enough for me to spam my alliance channel for help?

Command dessie for anti frig-dessie capabilities?

A railgun rokh with a mjd about 70km out? If they burn towards him, he jumps close to the rokh, and if they fire at the roq, he would be in perfect tracking/optimal range?


Maybe just never use industrial mode, and keep a cyno ready a few hops out at a fort?


Just some thoughts. A few things that i won't be able to really avoid:

-Massive blobs of enemy ships. Smartbomb fit? lawl.

-Titan with DD. im kinda ****** at that point, even with a emergency hull energizer. Luckily i haven't seen many titans in provi.


Keep in mind PANIC only works on mining type ships, so i won't be using it.


I'm thinking the best choice would be another rorq

ideally several more

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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