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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7401 - 2016-11-09 21:34:06 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Reported several of the above posts.

Whenever challenged about your point of view or data you cry off topic posting or ad hominem and report the post.
Jerghul wrote:

I am not going to get into a discussion on the relative populations in wormhole and null sec space. It is a side track that derails the actual topic at hand. CCP has the data and can evaluate the arguments presented here based on its data.
Yet you were the one who initially brought this aspect into the discussion.
Jerghul wrote:

As an anectdotal point - I find running wormholes between null and high sec far more convenient than using jump freighter services. And have yet to run into anyone...let alone any trouble in my DST and BR. I don't buy the logistics strain argument at all.

Living in and moving through are two completely different things.
Jerghul wrote:

Asset sharing/theft inherent to POS life may have been a disincentive most of EvE found unappealing in addition to lack of local, but is not longer valid after the introduction of citadelles.

Lack of local remains the overwhelming basis for wh space' lack of appeal. Real time information for individual players is vitally important to increasing undock frequencies. Removing local may render afk cloaky camping redundant, but would not contribute to my explicit goal of increasing the number of ships undocked in null-sec space.
In your Opinion.
Jerghul wrote:

A cloaking module fuel requirement similar to command bursts targets the afk element of afk cloaky camping. It does not nerf other uses of cloaks in any meaningful way.

It does when you have to consider that non AFK cloaking requires different kinds of logistical planning than a standard command burst.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7402 - 2016-11-09 21:39:15 UTC
I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the contents of the last two posts and let CCP and the moderator team review the arguments on their merits.

I remain convinced that a command burst type charge for cloaking modules is by far the least intrusive way to temper afk cloaky camping somewhat.

The reason tempering is desirable is to increase the number of undocked ships in null-sec.

Because content.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7403 - 2016-11-09 21:48:10 UTC
You seem to willfully ignore the repercussions of what will happen if AFK cloaking is nerfed.
Your claim that more ships will be destroyed is a half truth, even then you have provided no evidence to support that other than your opinion.

Any changes to cloaking devices will need an appropriate change the local chat channel.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#7404 - 2016-11-09 22:00:08 UTC
In the 6+ years that I've lived in wormhole-space, by far the biggest reason why people say they don't want to live there is the effort it takes and the constant scanning. Local rarely comes up.

Wormholer for life.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#7405 - 2016-11-09 23:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Jerghul wrote:
I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the contents of the last two posts and let CCP and the moderator team review the arguments on their merits.


I agree 100%. Given you've made your point clear and want CCP to decide, it's logical that you don't need to reply to this thread any more, assuming you're serious about wanting CCP and not players to review what you said.

I appreciate your contributions. It's unfortunate that you can't reply any more, given you are leaving it up to CCP instead of us at this point.

It's been good chatting. Message me in game if you want to keep talking on this subject. I'll stick to this thread and send you a message in game if anything new comes up.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#7406 - 2016-11-10 13:45:28 UTC
Wormhole-space has real-time information as well. It's called scouting. We work for the information that nullsec gets for free.

Wormholer for life.

Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7407 - 2016-11-10 14:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerghul
Constant scanning is the result not having real time information from local.

Scouting relies on 3rd party applications and any real time information is not universally available to individual players.

Local is not a good way to provide individual players with real time information. The Beta map is on the right track and could ideally evolve to supplement or replace other ways of making real time information universally available to individual players.

I am sure CCP will figure something out and will figure something out in a way that does not render afk cloaky camping redundant (to drift back on topic).

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1

Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#7408 - 2016-11-10 16:00:09 UTC
You are the one that said there is no real-time intel in W-space. I just wanted to point out that it is there, but we work to get it. If you are in a wormhole-corp and you are online, you are on comms, in fleet and you will be up to date on what happens in the chain.

Wormholer for life.

Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7409 - 2016-11-10 17:19:57 UTC
You cannot just drop the qualifiers and pretend my position is something it is not. Reported.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1

Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#7410 - 2016-11-10 17:27:53 UTC
Stop posting bullshit that you don't understand and I'll stop calling you out on it

Wormholer for life.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#7411 - 2016-11-10 17:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Jerghul wrote:
Constant scanning is the result not having real time information from local.

Scouting relies on 3rd party applications and any real time information is not universally available to individual players.


You can use the client just fine to do that. Third party apps might make it easier, but they are not required. In fact, that is how intel channels shared by alliances work. It is a channel in game where hostiles are reported.

Quote:
Local is not a good way to provide individual players with real time information. The Beta map is on the right track and could ideally evolve to supplement or replace other ways of making real time information universally available to individual players.


Which is why it should be replaced. Finally.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#7412 - 2016-11-10 17:36:34 UTC
Please refrain from abusing the report button as that generates a lot of extra work for CCL. Repeated abuse of it will result in disciplinary action being taken. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#7413 - 2016-11-10 17:42:11 UTC
Wait, so he was actually reporting people every time he said that? I assumed all along he was just saying it to try and get on our nerves
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7414 - 2016-11-10 19:27:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerghul
Of course I was. But fair enough.

I can play by any common denominator.

Scouts do not work without using 3rd party applications. Do try to keep up.

Indeed. The Beta map shows fine promise in replacing not only local as a source of real time information, but also alliance intel channels. I would not hold your breath however. Many other things are obviously a higher priority.

Like tempering afk cloaky camping for example.

Also, stop thinking you are calling me out on anything besides your own limited understanding of game mechanics. I respect that you understand the game at your own pace, but try not to think everyone belongs in your special category.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7415 - 2016-11-10 19:35:35 UTC
Scouting only requires the eve client and a knowledgeable player. No third party tools are required.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7416 - 2016-11-10 19:43:54 UTC
Disingenious much?

3rd party coms like TS are required for scouting. But feel free to volunteer to scout on the next fleet you are on and say you are going to type out everything in fleet chat because you are a knowlegable player and scouting only requires the eve client.

Tell us how that goes.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1

Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#7417 - 2016-11-10 19:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Wander Prian
Jerghul wrote:
Of course I was. But fair enough.

I can play by any common denominator.

Scouts do not work without using 3rd party applications. Do try to keep up.

Indeed. The Beta map shows fine promise in replacing not only local as a source of real time information, but also alliance intel channels. I would not hold your breath however. Many other things are obviously a higher priority.

Like tempering afk cloaky camping for example.

Also, stop thinking you are calling me out on anything besides your own limited understanding of game mechanics. I respect that you understand the game at your own pace, but try not to think everyone belongs in your special category.



If you cannot scout without a 3rd party program, you are doing the wrong job. All you need is your eyes, your ship, comms and a fleet. Wormhole-space works because of the work that players do together. Nullsec could learn a thing or 2 how things are done in w-space. Less soloing and more working together to make it safer for all.

EDIT: if you really need, you can do it with just text, but it's slower.

Wormholer for life.

Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7418 - 2016-11-10 20:01:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerghul
Wow, just wow.

COMS ARE 3rd PARTY APPLICATIONS

I dare you to join fleets, Offer to scout, and say you that you will only use the ingame client for your communications with the FC.

Tell us how that goes.

*reminds self to never assume malice, when stupidity is sufficient explanation for the crazy crap people type out in this thread*

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#7419 - 2016-11-10 20:05:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Jerghul wrote:
Wow, just wow.

COMS ARE 3rd PARTY APPLICATIONS

I dare you to join fleets, Offer to scout, and say you that you will only use the ingame client for your communications with the FC.

Tell us how that goes.

*reminds self to never assume malice, when stupidity is sufficient explanation for the crazy crap people type out in this thread*


You're really grasping at straws here. Show me a single nullsec alliance that can function ATM without out of game comms, message boards, requests for hauling, pings for fleets, etc. What you're talking about is already a requirement for nullsec, so you really have absolutely no leg to stand on.

Be careful when you pull BS arguments out, when they blatantly work against you like this. Or do what you said you would and wait for CCP to make a decision about AFK cloaking. You've made your point and said you want to wait to hear that, so why are you still replying? Were you lying when you said you would wait for CCP?

I hope the irony of your last statement isn't lost here, and have some respect for ISD, they are volunteers and aren't paid enough to handle you reporting people just to annoy us.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#7420 - 2016-11-10 20:08:21 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Of course I was. But fair enough.

I can play by any common denominator.

Scouts do not work without using 3rd party applications. Do try to keep up.

Indeed. The Beta map shows fine promise in replacing not only local as a source of real time information, but also alliance intel channels. I would not hold your breath however. Many other things are obviously a higher priority.

Like tempering afk cloaky camping for example.

Also, stop thinking you are calling me out on anything besides your own limited understanding of game mechanics. I respect that you understand the game at your own pace, but try not to think everyone belongs in your special category.


Scouting does not require third party apps. Third party apps may make it easier, but it is not a requirement. I have had friends scout for me. Basically, they'll log in, or get into a system with say a jump beacon, I'll ask in chat, "Clear?" and they'll respond, "Clear," or "Nope, hostiles." There we go, scouting without a third party app.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online