These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Balancing the Faction Ship BPC drop rates

First post
Author
Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2016-05-27 13:52:57 UTC
Where are the Rokhs, Maelsorms, Megathrons, Abaddons fleets ?
In history, and without any change they will stay there.

Currently there is no point of using T1 battleships, or 'navy' versions. Escalation rates made pirate ships so cheap that there is no reason to use something else.
Who will use worst basic hulls when just for additional 150mil they can have a machariel, nightmare or rattlesnake that will have more EHP, and do much more DPS.

We are losing a lot of variety in game, without any real gain.
If every one fly pirate battleship, where is the fun in doing this?
I want Rokh fleet back i want maelstroms to be the thing again.

The fastest solution for this is to cut drop rates on the battleship BPC, to 10-15% of current level.
Stocked BPC will be burned out and new players will see someday again rusty wings of the maelstroms.

Can some CSM member support this and bring it to attention of CCP?

If you support this, please post here to keep this topic visible.
Mimma Lemnu
Against Serious Acts
RAZOR Alliance
#2 - 2016-06-10 01:16:58 UTC
+1
Leeonwung
Damned And Disinherited
DRONE WALKERS
#3 - 2016-06-10 05:45:24 UTC
+2

This is a great idea, there seems to be way too many Faction ships these days

"Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril. When you are ignorant of the enemy, but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal. If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain in every battle to be in peril." - Sun Tzu

Deen Wispa
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
#4 - 2016-06-14 17:33:52 UTC
Each faction has 2 Navy Battleships as it is. Nerfing the drop rate for pirate BS won't improve the existing lineup. It's better to find ways to buff/improve the existing lineup. With the exception of the Amarr and possibly Minmatar hull, I find the Gallente and Caldari lineup to be woeful for fleet warfare.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Sylphy
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
#5 - 2016-06-30 08:24:37 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Where are the Rokhs, Maelsorms, Megathrons, Abaddons fleets ?


They are used/lost in PvE and involuntary PvP. Not in fleets.

The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.

Anthar Thebess
#6 - 2016-06-30 08:43:29 UTC
Sylphy wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Where are the Rokhs, Maelsorms, Megathrons, Abaddons fleets ?


They are used/lost in PvE and involuntary PvP. Not in fleets.

Until player get some more isk for better ratting ship.
Anthar Thebess
#7 - 2016-07-12 07:13:35 UTC
Never forget.
Rude Lee
Rude Lee and The Vexor Underground
#8 - 2016-09-07 19:10:45 UTC
I don't know about nerfing the drop rates for pirate bcs. It may be a good idea I am not sure.

But the navy battleships definitely need something. They are terrible for the price.
Vic Jefferson
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2016-09-07 23:06:01 UTC
On some level, I agree with you. Conceptually, variety is good.

On the other, you have to ask yourself, would non-pirate BS even have a place in the game? Occasionally people will get critical mass of Maelstroms, and that's a semi-viable T1 BS fleet, but, I am not sure many other non-pirate BS fleets are actually viable in and of themselves these days. Part of what makes Pirate BS fleets good now is they are at a pretty good spot in performance and ability to be sourced, where many of the T1 fleets would just be lackluster. Even if you manipulated pirate BS to be out of the price range or harder to source, that wouldn't necessarily, by itself, push the others into use.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Anthar Thebess
#10 - 2016-09-08 13:51:31 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
On some level, I agree with you. Conceptually, variety is good.

On the other, you have to ask yourself, would non-pirate BS even have a place in the game? Occasionally people will get critical mass of Maelstroms, and that's a semi-viable T1 BS fleet, but, I am not sure many other non-pirate BS fleets are actually viable in and of themselves these days. Part of what makes Pirate BS fleets good now is they are at a pretty good spot in performance and ability to be sourced, where many of the T1 fleets would just be lackluster. Even if you manipulated pirate BS to be out of the price range or harder to source, that wouldn't necessarily, by itself, push the others into use.


Making pirate battleships more expensive will actually bring back T1 battleships.
Simple example - machariel, king of battleship fleets.
Not only better EHP/agility/dps/warp speed over other projectile based battleships but can be refit to auto cannons or arty guns.

Making machariel more expensive will bring back arty maelstroms, and introduce auto cannon tempests.
If you can get 2-3 T1 battleships for the price of 1 run BPC people will reconsider ships they want to bring.
Vic Jefferson
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2016-09-08 14:40:39 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
If you can get 2-3 T1 battleships for the price of 1 run BPC people will reconsider ships they want to bring.



Some will. It's not always about cost.

Arty maels can still volley effectively. However, not every pirate ship has a T1 analog that can work, or substitute for the same role. Megathrons will never come close to being Fed Navy Megathrons, which are a doctrine alliances will field, for example, despite a lack of their price being drastically lowered, because of how much the navy variant overshadows the T1 variant - you can do things with navy megas that would be impossible with t1 megas, tactics that are impractical with the T1 variant are enabled by the navy variant.

Same goes for Navy Apocalypses when that was in style - they just had so much more to offer than the t1 variant that it pushed them into being a good fleet concept.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Anthar Thebess
#12 - 2016-09-09 07:55:04 UTC
I am aware of this.
Currently machariels and rattlesnakes dominated battlefield.
They are simply to cheap to consider any thing else.

It is boring, but i know that they are dream of any FC because of the benefits they provide, but this is simply boring.

Before escalation rate reduced their price so low, i personally used this battleship doctrines:
- Megathron
- Rokh (blaster and rail)
- Maelstorm
- Typhoon
- Scorpion Navy Shocked
- Navy Apoc
- Dominix
All of them provided interesting and different game play.

Now it is just 2 ships that outperform any of ships above.
It is not about to negate possibility to use of navy apocs or similar ships, but to bring them also back.

Coco Noceuse
Battle Pope Industries Ltd.
#13 - 2016-09-16 18:39:50 UTC
+1 op
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2016-09-19 08:13:17 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
I am aware of this.
Currently machariels and rattlesnakes dominated battlefield.
They are simply to cheap to consider any thing else.

It is boring, but i know that they are dream of any FC because of the benefits they provide, but this is simply boring.

Before escalation rate reduced their price so low, i personally used this battleship doctrines:
- Megathron
- Rokh (blaster and rail)
- Maelstorm
- Typhoon
- Scorpion Navy Shocked
- Navy Apoc
- Dominix
All of them provided interesting and different game play.

Now it is just 2 ships that outperform any of ships above.
It is not about to negate possibility to use of navy apocs or similar ships, but to bring them also back.



By the time you've put a full t2 fit on them, they're not that much cheaper, but the real difference is that pirate BS have much more EHP, and can actually hope to survive an attack by bombers (and nowadays, carrier fighters)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Anthar Thebess
#15 - 2016-09-19 12:33:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


By the time you've put a full t2 fit on them, they're not that much cheaper, but the real difference is that pirate BS have much more EHP, and can actually hope to survive an attack by bombers (and nowadays, carrier fighters)

When you compare fitted T1 Battleship and Faction version - there is no real reason to use T1 when Pirate will be always better.
Classic battleship can also fitted to survive bombers - but they are just so much worst than Pirate battleships.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2016-09-26 07:14:42 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


By the time you've put a full t2 fit on them, they're not that much cheaper, but the real difference is that pirate BS have much more EHP, and can actually hope to survive an attack by bombers (and nowadays, carrier fighters)

When you compare fitted T1 Battleship and Faction version - there is no real reason to use T1 when Pirate will be always better.
Classic battleship can also fitted to survive bombers - but they are just so much worst than Pirate battleships.



The main advantage that t1 BS have is availability. Mach doctrines are great and all, but if you're in a high attrition situation, then it's impossible to keep your pilots supplied after a while.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Anthar Thebess
#17 - 2016-09-28 07:25:34 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


By the time you've put a full t2 fit on them, they're not that much cheaper, but the real difference is that pirate BS have much more EHP, and can actually hope to survive an attack by bombers (and nowadays, carrier fighters)

When you compare fitted T1 Battleship and Faction version - there is no real reason to use T1 when Pirate will be always better.
Classic battleship can also fitted to survive bombers - but they are just so much worst than Pirate battleships.



The main advantage that t1 BS have is availability. Mach doctrines are great and all, but if you're in a high attrition situation, then it's impossible to keep your pilots supplied after a while.

Have you checked contracts or market in jita?
Most of the trade is done outside of the market and you can easily get 200 bpc every week from a bigger renter corporation.
Supply is not the problem, people are holding BPC to sell them in bulk when bigger whelp happens, without this prices will crash.
Anthar Thebess
#18 - 2016-10-31 10:45:23 UTC
Never forget!
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#19 - 2016-11-07 18:30:29 UTC
13. Spamming is prohibited.

Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words “first”, “go back to insert other game name” and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post, or the practice of “thread necromancy” which involved bumping of old threads for no justifiable reason.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.