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[GalFed] Villore Assembly: Empire-Federation dual citizenship

Author
Zeiki Amatin
Isonomia
#1 - 2016-11-04 05:57:36 UTC
Quote:
Resolution VA/03/02

Second Villore Assembly

Sponsors: Tressith Sefira, Charles Cambridge Schmidt, Kador Ouryon, Thal Vadam, Morwen Lagann, Zekiel Iyhr

Signatories: Aedre Lafisques, Kolodi Ramal, James Syagrius, Tristan Valentina.

Endorsements:

Topic: “Empire-Federation dual citizenship”

The Villore Assembly,

Recalling the historical relationship between the Amarr Empire & the Gallente Federation,

Recognising the migrant populations that exist within each nation,

Noting the legal and cultural difficulties facing immigrants from each nation in their new home,

Stressing the importance of open immigration to allow a growing understanding and promotion of cultural awareness,

Requests that the Federal and Imperial governments clarify the nature and law of dual citizenship,

Recognising the importance of clear political loyalties accepts that dual citizenship may be prohibited or be automatically renounced where the individual is or will hold an office of state or military position,

Clarifies that this abdication of dual citizenship cannot place the individual or their relatives in harm – either legal or physical.


Notes:
Empire-Federation dual citizenships already exist; this resolution merely seeks official clarification and consolidation of information pertaining.

- Press Secretary Zeiki Amatin
Villore Assembly
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2016-11-04 11:20:51 UTC
Empire-Federation dual citizenship is quite icky topic. While you speak here about historical relations between the Empire and the Federation you haven't mentioned one little detail... so little and so frail, that people of the Federation might even not notice. But at the same time what people of Mekhios are reminded with every day when they rise their eyes to the sky.

The Federation with the Empire are AT WAR.

And maybe it sounds distant and indirect besides Kador's invasion, billions and trillions of people are fighting on both sides. Millions are dying and are blaming other side in loss of their relatives...

And whom do you think these angry eyes will turn at, when there is no enemy nearby? On those, who have this dual citizenship. Amarr, living in Federation. Federals, living in the Empire. They all will be victims of those, who became victims of this war.

These relations, these unnatural ties will only enhance people hatred, and people will suffer for not doing anything wrong. They will be pointing fingers at each other. They will be calling names, blaming in treason and other things, which they wouldn't have done.

Dual citizenship is not a sin. It is not a heresy and not a blasphemy and not a crime. But it is a plague that will hurt people whom it will touch.

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Lord Kailethre
Tengoo Uninstallation Service
#3 - 2016-11-04 11:38:08 UTC
The militia wars are an emergency CONCORD act to allow for extremely limited combat operations to occur between the two empires. It's not formal, and it's only a 'war' as shared by allies. The Empire and Federation, at present time, have no real reasons to enter into a full and total conflict.
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-11-04 11:57:48 UTC
Lord Kailethre wrote:
The militia wars are an emergency CONCORD act to allow for extremely limited combat operations to occur between the two empires. It's not formal, and it's only a 'war' as shared by allies. The Empire and Federation, at present time, have no real reasons to enter into a full and total conflict.

There may be no reasons, Milord, but there is a war. It is a reality, and harsh reality, affecting peoples. And the worst part of the war, that it affect not just lives of those, who come to fight, but also the lives of those, who were caught in the fighting against their will. But it is not what the God does, it is what people do. And if it is done by people, we can stop this.

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Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2016-11-04 12:34:57 UTC
This is an interesting resolution. I hope it's successful.

My daughter has dual citizenship in both the Empire and Federation. On the Amarrian side of things, a citizen is almost without exception required to be a member of the Amarr Faith, they must be entered into the Book of Records, and must adhere to any further requirements of their liege holder. I'm less clear on the requirements for Gallente citizenship. As I understand it, my daughter was eligible because she's the descendant of Gallente citizens, but I could be oversimplifying it.

In my experience the CEWPA has not affected my family much. It was slightly more difficult to visit my in-laws when I was participating in the 24th Imperial Crusade. My daughter has been freely able to travel in either nation as both consider her a member of their respective societies.
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-11-04 13:11:02 UTC
Karmilla Strife wrote:

My daughter has dual citizenship in both the Empire and Federation. On the Amarrian side of things, a citizen is almost without exception required to be a member of the Amarr Faith, they must be entered into the Book of Records, and must adhere to any further requirements of their liege holder. I'm less clear on the requirements for Gallente citizenship. As I understand it, my daughter was eligible because she's the descendant of Gallente citizens, but I could be oversimplifying it.


Anyone may become a citizen of the Federation. There are so many ethnicities represented therein that birth and descent are irrelevant. What is required is to swear allegiance to uphold the Constitution and the principles and laws therewith derived.*

For Amarr, this can pose an issue, since freedom of (and from) religion is constitutionally guaranteed, as is the complete and total abolition of slavery. For an individual who is interested in being part of the Federation and enjoying her many liberties and boons, this should present no bar, since they can worship their own god as they wish without proselytising others. But I have heard stories of such a, shall we say, 'detached' faith causing friction with family and theocrats back in the Empire.

Two such different world views and cultures are not easy to reconcile, and I admire those who achieve it.

* There is a caveat often confusing to the newcomer, in that various jurisdictions may have their own requirements in addition to the Federal stipulation.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Vollhov Jr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2016-11-04 13:23:47 UTC
Luna Hanaya wrote:

The Federation with the Empire are AT WAR.

When the Empire arrives President of the Federation for the funeral and the coronation of the New "Correctly" of the Empress.
It creates the impression that all have forgotten that the Federation supports the rebels and the Republic. It supports financially and not only.
Hence the question: Empire at War (Cold War) with the Federation or not ?
After August 21, the 117, I was confused. Lol
Have you already decide who is friend and who is an enemy. Ugh
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#8 - 2016-11-04 17:41:04 UTC
Karmilla Strife wrote:
I'm less clear on the requirements for Gallente citizenship. As I understand it, my daughter was eligible because she's the descendant of Gallente citizens, but I could be oversimplifying it.

No, it's not that anyone with a Gallente bloodline is going to pass screening and be admitted. It may look favorable on the application. But there are weeks of classes, tests, and background checks to be done before you're granted citizenship.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2016-11-04 19:12:28 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:

No, it's not that anyone with a Gallente bloodline is going to pass screening and be admitted. It may look favorable on the application. But there are weeks of classes, tests, and background checks to be done before you're granted citizenship.


While that makes sense for an adult who is pursuing citizenship through naturalization, my daughter was granted citizenship by descent at birth. Her father was a Gallente citizen at the time so it carried over to her. We're all pretty happy with the arrangement as it makes visiting both families easier.
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-11-04 20:51:10 UTC
Vollhov Jr wrote:
Luna Hanaya wrote:

The Federation with the Empire are AT WAR.

When the Empire arrives President of the Federation for the funeral and the coronation of the New "Correctly" of the Empress.
It creates the impression that all have forgotten that the Federation supports the rebels and the Republic. It supports financially and not only.
Hence the question: Empire at War (Cold War) with the Federation or not ?
After August 21, the 117, I was confused. Lol
Have you already decide who is friend and who is an enemy. Ugh

The war is going on and it is too hot. Too many peoples are dying for it to be just cold.

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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#11 - 2016-11-05 02:03:59 UTC
Karmilla Strife wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:

No, it's not that anyone with a Gallente bloodline is going to pass screening and be admitted. It may look favorable on the application. But there are weeks of classes, tests, and background checks to be done before you're granted citizenship.


While that makes sense for an adult who is pursuing citizenship through naturalization, my daughter was granted citizenship by descent at birth. Her father was a Gallente citizen at the time so it carried over to her. We're all pretty happy with the arrangement as it makes visiting both families easier.
Well if her father is a citizen, it makes sense that she would be granted the same status.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#12 - 2016-11-05 08:59:59 UTC
Empire law doesn't allow its citizens to have dual citizenship, as for now ?

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#13 - 2016-11-05 14:42:07 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Empire law doesn't allow its citizens to have dual citizenship, as for now ?


I strongly doubt that my two-year old is the only dual-citizen in the Empire. If a foreign citizen is a member of the Amarr Faith, and in good legal standing, I see no reason why they could not become an Amarrian citizen. If someone wished to convert to the Faith in order to become an Amarrian citizen there are methods to accomplish that. Not all of those methods involve slavery, so they might not upset the laws of their current government.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#14 - 2016-11-05 18:51:37 UTC
While my pro Caldari and Minmatar stances are a matter of record, I don't see this as a bad thing per se. More cultural exchange between the Federation and the Empire might be a good thing for both of them. They are both cultural expansionists, so they have lots in common.
Diana Kim
Kenshin Katana.
United Caldari Space Command.
#15 - 2016-11-05 20:44:55 UTC
I am quite interested what Faithful Amarr would think about those, who possess Federal citizenship...
I myself think of those having Gallente Federation citizenship as a disgrace, disregarding whether they have any other citizenship or not.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Puar
The Samsara Collective
#16 - 2016-11-05 20:55:29 UTC
Amarr's Slavery in the name of there false god shall not be accepted. We should continue to support our Minmatar allies. Amarr may leave their Empire and join us.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#17 - 2016-11-06 00:03:17 UTC
Puar wrote:
Amarr's Slavery in the name of there false god shall not be accepted. We should continue to support our Minmatar allies. Amarr may leave their Empire and join us.

Slavery is illegal in the Federation.
Dual Empire-Federation citizenship is legal in the Federation and in the Empire.
Freedom of Religion is a protected right in the Federal Constitution itself.
5% of the total population of the Federation identifies as Amarr. As you know, Federation census data is about identity, not bodily ethnicity; usually the Amarr identity is claimed by Faithful persons.
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2016-11-06 02:11:09 UTC
Puar wrote:
Amarr's Slavery in the name of there false god shall not be accepted. We should continue to support our Minmatar allies. Amarr may leave their Empire and join us.


You may be surprised to know that that the vast majority of Amarrians do not own slaves. Not everyone gets to be holder, that's the nature of feudalism.
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#19 - 2016-11-06 02:30:10 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Puar wrote:
Amarr's Slavery in the name of there false god shall not be accepted. We should continue to support our Minmatar allies. Amarr may leave their Empire and join us.

Slavery is illegal in the Federation.
Dual Empire-Federation citizenship is legal in the Federation and in the Empire.
Freedom of Religion is a protected right in the Federal Constitution itself.
5% of the total population of the Federation identifies as Amarr. As you know, Federation census data is about identity, not bodily ethnicity; usually the Amarr identity is claimed by Faithful persons.


Kalodi is entirely correct but I have to address the claims against this in as clear terms as possible.

The Empire and Federation met a long, long, time ago and when we realized that we were militarily near equals, we decide to trade instead of fight. This has continued. Amarr is allied to the Caldari State, and the 24th IC, is at war against the FDU, but our two nations have never openly engaged in war.

This is the IGS so let's stir up some ****! When the Minmatar tribes chose their representatives, they sent them to Pator. Two of the Tribes, started spouting scripture and pro Amarrian references. Local chat blew the **** up and then something magical happened...

every other tribal representative stood in support of the Nefantar and Starkmanir tribal representatives. I know, I was there aboard a Stabber watching the whole thing.

Puar and others like him may continue to spout their hatred, but his own Tribal Elders recognize that some amongst the Tribes embrace the Amarr faith as their own.

Even Sanmatar Shakor is starting to accept Amarr as a neighbor.

Puar; rant and rail all you want, The Empire is not the bogeyman you want us to be. The one time an Amarrian has invaded our neighbors, they were punished, Hard. Can you claim the same of your Elders?

The age of Amarrian aggressive expansion is over. It has been for a century. modernize your rhetoric or stand proud and proclaim yourself for the racist that you are.
Vollhov Jr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2016-11-06 15:21:27 UTC
Luna Hanaya wrote:

The war is going on and it is too hot. Too many peoples are dying for it to be just cold.

Recent events have shown that the soldiers had are fighting, and their leaders embrace.
Frankly I'm confused.
I would place the Generals Federation would have already deposed of such a President Twisted
The Patriots die for the ideals of the Federation, as he visits an enemy in friendly visits.
Absurd.
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