These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Thoughts on improving the game

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mandar Amelana
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#241 - 2016-11-03 13:35:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Explained in lore. "because they are capsuleers and the empires don't want a war with immortals".


Where did you get that?

I don't doubt you, I'm just curious.
pajedas
Doomheim
#242 - 2016-11-03 13:39:11 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I've got a question...

Why do NPC stations in hi-sec allow -10 criminals to dock?

Also why does Jita 4-4 let players who are at war with the Caldari state also dock?

It just seems rather odd. Like the NPCs care about it enough to send ships to hunt you down while you are in their space, but as soon as you dock you apparently have sanctum on holy ground.

Obvious double standard. (doesn't apply to null sec alliances)

The -10's are the real crybaby here. They expect to be treated equally in HS. They cry about how difficult it is to be an "outlaw" in HS when in reality it's extremely easy. After setting up a few insta-undock pings you're golden.

I'd love to see the little "c0d3 types" out in 0.0 with everyone shooting at them and NO STATIONS allowing them to dock.

For some reason ccp has applied your standings to tax rates and clones but not the most obvious. You come to my space, shoot my citizens and expect to dock? Really? Sure, makes perfect sense.

CCP Falcon wrote:
EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.

Except when you dock...

🐇
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#243 - 2016-11-03 13:39:37 UTC
The political situation in 200th century society is complicated.
Steffles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2016-11-03 13:39:56 UTC
Risk
noun
1. a situation involving exposure to danger.


Danger
noun
the possibility of something unwelcome or unpleasant happening.


Now pretending you are risking something by undocking a suicide catalyst is stupid. A suicide catalyst is supposed to die, you are not risking it, you are expending it as ammunition. It therefore cannot possibly be in danger since its not something unwelcome or unpleasant, its something you are doing deliberately and something you are expecting.

Since many if not all suicide gankers kill empty freighters as well as freighters with loot there is also no risk in "loot not dropping" since for loot to drop there needs to be loot in the ship. Now since you kill ships without loot that cannot be a "risk factor" at all.

Looking at recent kills of freighters its quite obvious that the killing of freighters is so easy it can be done with a single person using ISBOXER and 6 or 7 stealth bombers and certainly doesn't require the claimed 100 person catalyst fleet. Since ISBOXER broadcasting is illegal in EVE it must be assumed that one code dweeb does it using multiple clients or computers and manual input (sure he does right?) and is doing for under 250 million per gank.

The often vomited, use a webber, fast aligning, scouting bullcrap is of course worthless since almost all ganks are conducted with a 100,000 isk scrambler which makes fast aligning and webbing pointless.




Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#245 - 2016-11-03 13:45:54 UTC
Steffles wrote:
Risk
noun
1. a situation involving exposure to danger.


Danger
noun
the possibility of something unwelcome or unpleasant happening.


Now pretending you are risking something by undocking a suicide catalyst is stupid. A suicide catalyst is supposed to die, you are not risking it, you are expending it as ammunition. It therefore cannot possibly be in danger since its not something unwelcome or unpleasant, its something you are doing deliberately and something you are expecting.

Since many if not all suicide gankers kill empty freighters as well as freighters with loot there is also no risk in "loot not dropping" since for loot to drop there needs to be loot in the ship. Now since you kill ships without loot that cannot be a "risk factor" at all.

Looking at recent kills of freighters its quite obvious that the killing of freighters is so easy it can be done with a single person using ISBOXER and 6 or 7 stealth bombers and certainly doesn't require the claimed 100 person catalyst fleet. Since ISBOXER broadcasting is illegal in EVE it must be assumed that one code dweeb does it using multiple clients or computers and manual input (sure he does right?) and is doing for under 250 million per gank.

The often vomited, use a webber, fast aligning, scouting bullcrap is of course worthless since almost all ganks are conducted with a 100,000 isk scrambler which makes fast aligning and webbing pointless.






Sounds like you're pretty powerless to protect yourself. You might want to consider just getting a permit.
Mandar Amelana
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#246 - 2016-11-03 13:49:39 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:

Sounds like you're pretty powerless to protect yourself. You might want to consider just getting a permit.


Big smileBig smileAs much as I hate CODE, its responses like this that make it hard to do sometimes.Big smileBig smile

Honestly, maybe a rework in the bounty system could help with certain situations of ganking. Won't help with CODE, but is there anyway to add a bounty contract, that upon the destruction of a certain player, in a certain minimum ISK fit, you'd receive the benefit of the contract?

Just a thought.
Steffles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2016-11-03 13:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Steffles
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Steffles wrote:
Risk
noun
1. a situation involving exposure to danger.


Danger
noun
the possibility of something unwelcome or unpleasant happening.


Now pretending you are risking something by undocking a suicide catalyst is stupid. A suicide catalyst is supposed to die, you are not risking it, you are expending it as ammunition. It therefore cannot possibly be in danger since its not something unwelcome or unpleasant, its something you are doing deliberately and something you are expecting.

Since many if not all suicide gankers kill empty freighters as well as freighters with loot there is also no risk in "loot not dropping" since for loot to drop there needs to be loot in the ship. Now since you kill ships without loot that cannot be a "risk factor" at all.

Looking at recent kills of freighters its quite obvious that the killing of freighters is so easy it can be done with a single person using ISBOXER and 6 or 7 stealth bombers and certainly doesn't require the claimed 100 person catalyst fleet. Since ISBOXER broadcasting is illegal in EVE it must be assumed that one code dweeb does it using multiple clients or computers and manual input (sure he does right?) and is doing for under 250 million per gank.

The often vomited, use a webber, fast aligning, scouting bullcrap is of course worthless since almost all ganks are conducted with a 100,000 isk scrambler which makes fast aligning and webbing pointless.






Sounds like you're pretty powerless to protect yourself. You might want to consider just getting a permit.

Permit Free Space - But Please come down to the Beanstar and try sell me one. Oh Ebit: We have a freeport station in system so you can dock up and reship after you get gank.. I mean after you gank.

Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
pajedas
Doomheim
#248 - 2016-11-03 13:55:14 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Sounds like you're pretty powerless to protect yourself. You might want to consider just getting a permit.
You help make his point. You don't want change and/or improvement because it's perfect for people like you.

You are not the majority (except for GD trolls). .001% of the player base makes 99% of the troll posts.

I propose that CCP start charging people to post in the forums. Like text messaging, give a 500 "text" base and then charge (per post) anyone that goes over...

🐇
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#249 - 2016-11-03 13:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Perhaps, we shouldn't be looking to make hi-sec safer for law abiding citizens, but making it more dangerous for criminals.

Currently, a Merc Corp can really do nothing to catch a -10 criminal.

What mechanics would open up criminals to non-consensual PVP?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Steffles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#250 - 2016-11-03 14:04:35 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Perhaps, we shouldn't be looking to make hi-sec safer for law abiding citizens, but making it more dangerous for criminals.

Currently, a Merc Corp can really do nothing to catch a -10 criminal.

What mechanics would open up criminals to non-consensual PVP?

There are none that would be acceptable to CCP.

The -10's are of course alts.
They are in ships designed to die.
Killing one of their ships is not a deterrent nor costly to them - to do so would require you losing the isk war by a very large margin.
The only real solution would be CCP identifying their mains however CCP will never do that.
You are therefore SOL.

Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#251 - 2016-11-03 14:06:20 UTC
Steffles wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Perhaps, we shouldn't be looking to make hi-sec safer for law abiding citizens, but making it more dangerous for criminals.

Currently, a Merc Corp can really do nothing to catch a -10 criminal.

What mechanics would open up criminals to non-consensual PVP?

There are none that would be acceptable to CCP.

The -10's are of course alts.
They are in ships designed to die.
Killing one of their ships is not a deterrent nor costly to them - to do so would require you losing the isk war by a very large margin.
The only real solution would be CCP identifying their mains however CCP will never do that.
You are therefore SOL.



I've got one but it might make a lot of people mad...

Add a 10 to 30 second cool down before you can warp after undocking.

Apply it to everyone to be fair.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Steffles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2016-11-03 14:16:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Steffles
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Steffles wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Perhaps, we shouldn't be looking to make hi-sec safer for law abiding citizens, but making it more dangerous for criminals.

Currently, a Merc Corp can really do nothing to catch a -10 criminal.

What mechanics would open up criminals to non-consensual PVP?

There are none that would be acceptable to CCP.

The -10's are of course alts.
They are in ships designed to die.
Killing one of their ships is not a deterrent nor costly to them - to do so would require you losing the isk war by a very large margin.
The only real solution would be CCP identifying their mains however CCP will never do that.
You are therefore SOL.



I've got one but it might make a lot of people mad...

Add a 10 to 30 second cool down before you can warp after undocking.

Apply it to everyone to be fair.

Not sure why anyone would get mad. They are after all allowed and are part of the game.

Your suggestion would make a shiteton of people mad though but it'd be pretty nice not just for -10's but for all of EvE. 10 seconds after timer expires or turns off since there's an immunity timer after undocking.

Realistically for -10's though I think pod only travel, for the purpose of buying / utilizing tags is a good option. Not like tags are that expensive anymore.

Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#253 - 2016-11-03 14:19:46 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:



I've got one but it might make a lot of people mad...

Add a 10 to 30 second cool down before you can warp after undocking.

Apply it to everyone to be fair.


I don't understand the need some have to make things easier for people. EVe already provides all the tools one needs to be extremely safe.

The real problem is high security space. unlike the other 84% of EVE space, high sec doesn't teach players to protect themselves, so they don,t, and they get preyed upon, and they blame the game rather than putting the fault where it really lies (on themselves), and some of them come to a forum asking for developer intervention.

In 9+ years I've lost 2 shuttles and a pod to 'criminals' in high sec. Even when I've gone back to high sec to run missions and incursions and even now when I haul loot to jita I have zero problems (because I treat ALL space as hostile space, I mjd'claok gate to gate between jita and amarr for example).
Being that I've played outside of high sec most of that time (in space where there is no help except other people and maybe a weak gate gun in low sec), the habits formed there make high sec 'criminals' a non issue.

But somehow you can't teach that to high seccers at all. They are like the privileged kids of EVE, you can't convince them that they have to make an effort for what they want (safety) rather than just rely on their butler and chauffeur lol. Time and again CCP has buffed these types (buffed mining ships, safeties, pop ups that won't let you make a mistake etc) and they STILL complain.

Which shows that CCP also has a hard time learning, in this case it's learning that you can't coddle some people enough for them to be comfortable in a harsh game, and trying is stupid. IMO high sec players were less stupid before all the safeties/pop ups and such, because hihgh sec was more dangerous and it was easier to learn that you had to protect your self a little at least.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#254 - 2016-11-03 14:26:27 UTC
Steffles wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Steffles wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Perhaps, we shouldn't be looking to make hi-sec safer for law abiding citizens, but making it more dangerous for criminals.

Currently, a Merc Corp can really do nothing to catch a -10 criminal.

What mechanics would open up criminals to non-consensual PVP?

There are none that would be acceptable to CCP.

The -10's are of course alts.
They are in ships designed to die.
Killing one of their ships is not a deterrent nor costly to them - to do so would require you losing the isk war by a very large margin.
The only real solution would be CCP identifying their mains however CCP will never do that.
You are therefore SOL.



I've got one but it might make a lot of people mad...

Add a 10 to 30 second cool down before you can warp after undocking.

Apply it to everyone to be fair.

Not sure why anyone would get mad. They are after all allowed and are part of the game.

Your suggestion would make a shiteton of people mad though but it'd be pretty nice not just for -10's but for all of EvE. 10 seconds after timer expires or turns off since there's an immunity timer after undocking.

Realistically for -10's though I think pod only travel, for the purpose of buying / utilizing tags is a good option. Not like tags are that expensive anymore.


I don't know. I think podding people undocking would be legit.

Also I'm surprised no one has suggested warp cool downs after undocking as a thing before.

Sure it would make undocking at Jita while at war a bad thing, but it would be a small price to pay to balance everything out.

I never did like the concept of instant warping after undocking anyways.

This would increase overall risk I suppose... Worth it though.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Steffles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#255 - 2016-11-03 14:28:33 UTC
What I think would make things more even is the following:

Utilizing the same code as jump fatigue:

Suicide gank - 15 minutes suspect - 6 hour timer
Suicide gank in that 6 hour timer - 30 minute suspect - 12 hour timer
Suicide gank in that 12 hour timer - 1 hour suspect - 24 hour timer
and so on and so on...

Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#256 - 2016-11-03 14:28:40 UTC
pajedas wrote:
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Sounds like you're pretty powerless to protect yourself. You might want to consider just getting a permit.
You help make his point. You don't want change and/or improvement because it's perfect for people like you.

You are not the majority (except for GD trolls). .001% of the player base makes 99% of the troll posts.

I propose that CCP start charging people to post in the forums. Like text messaging, give a 500 "text" base and then charge (per post) anyone that goes over...


Oh hi Pajedas! Glad to see you're still in the game! I thought you rage-quit, bro? What happened with that?
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#257 - 2016-11-03 14:34:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Jenn aSide wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:



I've got one but it might make a lot of people mad...

Add a 10 to 30 second cool down before you can warp after undocking.

Apply it to everyone to be fair.


I don't understand the need some have to make things easier for people. EVe already provides all the tools one needs to be extremely safe.

The real problem is high security space. unlike the other 84% of EVE space, high sec doesn't teach players to protect themselves, so they don,t, and they get preyed upon, and they blame the game rather than putting the fault where it really lies (on themselves), and some of them come to a forum asking for developer intervention.

In 9+ years I've lost 2 shuttles and a pod to 'criminals' in high sec. Even when I've gone back to high sec to run missions and incursions and even now when I haul loot to jita I have zero problems (because I treat ALL space as hostile space, I mjd'claok gate to gate between jita and amarr for example).
Being that I've played outside of high sec most of that time (in space where there is no help except other people and maybe a weak gate gun in low sec), the habits formed there make high sec 'criminals' a non issue.

But somehow you can't teach that to high seccers at all. They are like the privileged kids of EVE, you can't convince them that they have to make an effort for what they want (safety) rather than just rely on their butler and chauffeur lol. Time and again CCP has buffed these types (buffed mining ships, safeties, pop ups that won't let you make a mistake etc) and they STILL complain.

Which shows that CCP also has a hard time learning, in this case it's learning that you can't coddle some people enough for them to be comfortable in a harsh game, and trying is stupid. IMO high sec players were less stupid before all the safeties/pop ups and such, because hihgh sec was more dangerous and it was easier to learn that you had to protect your self a little at least.


My suggestion actually increases risk for everyone.

I suspect people in low sec would love warp cool downs.

It doesn't actually make it safer or prevent ganking if the miners choose to be whimps about it.

My suggestions just gives the opportunity to engage criminals or war targets on undock.

It creates more opportunity for PVP and does not make mining or hauling any safer.

It just gives those who want to actually PVP an opportunity to get it.

And I'd be fine increasing the timer it takes for the faction police to compensate to be fair.

I'd also be open to increasing concord times to balance this out.

Shift the police from NPCs to players.

How can you be against that?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#258 - 2016-11-03 15:09:27 UTC
pajedas wrote:

You are not the majority...


Of course we're in the minority! That's why it's called "Elite PvP".
pajedas
Doomheim
#259 - 2016-11-03 15:38:36 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Oh hi Pajedas! Glad to see you're still in the game! I thought you rage-quit, bro? What happened with that?

Eve is like a really, really, REALLY nice septic system...why would I leave it?

🐇
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#260 - 2016-11-03 16:20:27 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:



I've got one but it might make a lot of people mad...

Add a 10 to 30 second cool down before you can warp after undocking.

Apply it to everyone to be fair.


I don't understand the need some have to make things easier for people. EVe already provides all the tools one needs to be extremely safe.

The real problem is high security space. unlike the other 84% of EVE space, high sec doesn't teach players to protect themselves, so they don,t, and they get preyed upon, and they blame the game rather than putting the fault where it really lies (on themselves), and some of them come to a forum asking for developer intervention.

In 9+ years I've lost 2 shuttles and a pod to 'criminals' in high sec. Even when I've gone back to high sec to run missions and incursions and even now when I haul loot to jita I have zero problems (because I treat ALL space as hostile space, I mjd'claok gate to gate between jita and amarr for example).
Being that I've played outside of high sec most of that time (in space where there is no help except other people and maybe a weak gate gun in low sec), the habits formed there make high sec 'criminals' a non issue.

But somehow you can't teach that to high seccers at all. They are like the privileged kids of EVE, you can't convince them that they have to make an effort for what they want (safety) rather than just rely on their butler and chauffeur lol. Time and again CCP has buffed these types (buffed mining ships, safeties, pop ups that won't let you make a mistake etc) and they STILL complain.

Which shows that CCP also has a hard time learning, in this case it's learning that you can't coddle some people enough for them to be comfortable in a harsh game, and trying is stupid. IMO high sec players were less stupid before all the safeties/pop ups and such, because hihgh sec was more dangerous and it was easier to learn that you had to protect your self a little at least.


My suggestion actually increases risk for everyone.

I suspect people in low sec would love warp cool downs.

It doesn't actually make it safer or prevent ganking if the miners choose to be whimps about it.

My suggestions just gives the opportunity to engage criminals or war targets on undock.

It creates more opportunity for PVP and does not make mining or hauling any safer.

It just gives those who want to actually PVP an opportunity to get it.

And I'd be fine increasing the timer it takes for the faction police to compensate to be fair.

I'd also be open to increasing concord times to balance this out.

Shift the police from NPCs to players.

How can you be against that?
\

Because there is no need. The starting assumption is that there is something wrong. There isn't. PVP players of all kinds don't need a buff.

One of the problems with "bright ideas" (especially when there is no pressing need for the idea in the 1st place) is that the idea person doesn't think things through. In this case, the idea is to give people some way to attack gankers in high sec so you make EVERYONE have a warp delay (it's like swatting a nat with a nuke).

The gankers simply won't dock then, they will reship (and log out/in) in space until whatever arbitrary timer is up etc. Meanwhile, the tens of thousands of other players who don't gank will have to deal with a whole new type of station gaming, one that will HELP gankers as high sec mission runners (who HAVE to dock to talk to their agents) get blown away by gankers rather than being able to insta-warp off the station and proceed on to their mission like they can now.

I can't tell you how stupid the idea is, it wouldn't negatively affect gankers (again, they would simply adapt, like they do every time CCP tries to nerf them) , it would HELP them as well as making playing in low sec and npc null PURE HELL and it would SCREW the rest of us who have zero to do with ganking.

How can you not take the 13 seconds I did to think through the implications?