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@CCP AF Rebalance
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Sanai Nobuseri
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-10-30 07:00:32 UTC
You asked at eve vegas for opinions on AF rebalance, this is what I came up with.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5a4x4b/ccp_assault_frigate_rebalance_thoughts/
Vigirr
#2 - 2016-10-30 07:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vigirr
So we have a useless AF rebalance thread on the first page, lets brain fart another one because... reasons?

I'll say it again, any sort of AF rebalancing discussion or ideas (most of the ideas in your link are terrible btw) is null and void till they sort out T3D and T3C properly. Because only then there's an somewhat even playing field where one can re-evaluate an AF's role and play style.
JHC TheChosen
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-10-30 21:45:47 UTC
Just get rid of Assault frigates and reinvent them as dedicated FC/Command ships with super low sig radius, great tank, no or very slight weapons capability, warfare link bonus/ fitting compensation and an Afterburner Bonus.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2016-10-30 21:59:11 UTC
How about you post your ideas here instead of trying to syphon traffic to your redit thread yeah?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#5 - 2016-10-30 22:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
Player Features and Ideas <--- here would be even better.

Daemun of Khanid
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#6 - 2016-10-30 22:36:10 UTC
I hope you linked your reddit thing back to here. We're still in business for now and it would really help Smile

@lunettelulu7
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#7 - 2016-10-30 23:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilti Enaka
Once again it's good to see CCP swing the nerf hammer. The T3D and T3C are great fun ships and making everything "even" and "not overpowered" just means one thing, the bottleneck changes to a new fad. Stop this FFS you do this all the ******* time instead of being more creative and thinking about counters, you are doing nothing but creating a dull game.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#8 - 2016-10-30 23:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Once again it's good to see CCP swing the nerf hammer. The T3D and T3C are great fun ships and making everything "even" and "not overpowered" just means one thing, the bottleneck changes to a new fad. Stop this FFS you do this all the ******* time instead of being more creative and thinking about counters, you are doing nothing but creating a dull game.

I see where you are coming from on this and am sympathetic to the view (my poor Ishtar...I still shed a tear). At the same time, there is a need in some cases to rebalance, especially where the best strategy - as with the cancer Svipul - is to just adopt the ship that's above the power curve and not worry about finding a counter.

I think ideally, what you are expressing is the part in this Extra Credits where it gets to talking about Champion A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

For the T3Ds in particular, the changes will open up more opportunities for people to start thinking about counters again, while also rewarding skilled pilots who can still use the ship well.

We are likely to see a shift in the meta as a result of these changes and perhaps the new FOTM will come along, but hopefully we end up with a bit more diversity back again.

On the flip side, T3Ds being so easy to train into give new players access to something powerful relatively quickly ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w ), but too much power to vets and no reason for anyone to move away from (as outlined in that video). Toning them down won't make them obsolete (my poor Ishtar) in this case. They will still be good ships and be above the power curve if you can fly them well.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#9 - 2016-10-31 00:53:56 UTC
To be fair I'm not entirely impressed with all the suggested improvements. People are sort of stuck in a mindset and a meta filled with ships like the Orthrus and Garmur - even if you made them heavy, hard to stop tackle boats, they would be in a niche that really doesn't need filling. T3Ds would still be far more combat capable, and the established line of either tanky or kitey tackle would still be favored. Why commit an assault frigate when you could use a Keres? Why use assault frigates when you could use a super tanked Proteus?

I mean it would give them an identity in small plexes, sure. but not much else. If anything, it risks too much stratification: novices are for faction frigates, smalls are for assault frigates, etc, which is bad. No faction frigate would want to fight something it cannot ever have a chance at range control against.

If you want them to be ULTRA SPOOKY, remove them from local and dscan, let them covert cyno. Now they can actually assault things, and have a unique role. Yeah, people are going to be like, you are nuts, for saying that, but it is sorta true - any of the other changes, and they still struggle to find a real home given the toxic meta we have at the moment.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#10 - 2016-10-31 10:56:01 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
If you want them to be ULTRA SPOOKY, remove them from local and dscan, let them covert cyno. Now they can actually assault things, and have a unique role. Yeah, people are going to be like, you are nuts, for saying that, but it is sorta true - any of the other changes, and they still struggle to find a real home given the toxic meta we have at the moment.


+1

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#11 - 2016-10-31 12:29:45 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:

If you want them to be ULTRA SPOOKY, remove them from local and dscan, let them covert cyno. Now they can actually assault things, and have a unique role. Yeah, people are going to be like, you are nuts, for saying that, but it is sorta true - any of the other changes, and they still struggle to find a real home given the toxic meta we have at the moment.


A brilliant example of being creative to create engaging game play instead of swinging the nerf hammer.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#12 - 2016-10-31 12:40:36 UTC
Allow assault frigates to fit not one, but TWO afterburners! And use them in tandem! *runs off*
The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#13 - 2016-11-02 09:23:48 UTC
Morgan North wrote:
Allow assault frigates to fit not one, but TWO afterburners! And use them in tandem! *runs off*



k thanks I really needed to spew diet coke out of my nose


My biggest wish for assault frigates on top of the laundry list of complaints about these beauties is to fix the teeth on the Retribution base model! This isn't Great Britain, it's Amarr! :::hides from Varrinox who thinks Amarr IS Great Britain, and is British:::

https://i.redditmedia.com/cV-pX7gqqDhe3zH73G32h3FC4TvLQRST9kUdWdXaAeg.jpg?w=909&s=a384c4074ba486f753ce5150e6cbd58e

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-
The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#14 - 2016-11-02 09:31:56 UTC
Sanai Nobuseri wrote:
You asked at eve vegas for opinions on AF rebalance, this is what I came up with.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5a4x4b/ccp_assault_frigate_rebalance_thoughts/



I really liked your ideas I am very very ready for AF rebalance I hope CCP does SOMETHING about these ships as they were my favorite as soon as I first started EVE too bad really as I could have spent all those points on something useful other than a retribution :P

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-
The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#15 - 2016-11-02 09:32:52 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
To be fair I'm not entirely impressed with all the suggested improvements. People are sort of stuck in a mindset and a meta filled with ships like the Orthrus and Garmur - even if you made them heavy, hard to stop tackle boats, they would be in a niche that really doesn't need filling. T3Ds would still be far more combat capable, and the established line of either tanky or kitey tackle would still be favored. Why commit an assault frigate when you could use a Keres? Why use assault frigates when you could use a super tanked Proteus?

I mean it would give them an identity in small plexes, sure. but not much else. If anything, it risks too much stratification: novices are for faction frigates, smalls are for assault frigates, etc, which is bad. No faction frigate would want to fight something it cannot ever have a chance at range control against.

If you want them to be ULTRA SPOOKY, remove them from local and dscan, let them covert cyno. Now they can actually assault things, and have a unique role. Yeah, people are going to be like, you are nuts, for saying that, but it is sorta true - any of the other changes, and they still struggle to find a real home given the toxic meta we have at the moment.



Alright this is my favorite idea.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-
My Dream
Doomheim
#16 - 2016-11-03 09:22:16 UTC
Assault frigates may also be helped by giving a new role bonus . maybe a reduced cycle time on entosis links so the can do the job quickly making them desirable as an assault vehicle
renwahh
Jovian Vengeance
#17 - 2016-11-03 09:48:29 UTC
Just make them invun to scram effects. ::Pulls on Tinfoil Hat and ducks::
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#18 - 2016-11-03 10:27:54 UTC
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-11-03 10:46:56 UTC
Quote:
New assault frigate stats:

Shield + 90,000
Armor +60,000
Hull +150,000

+3 high slots
+4 mid slots
+6 low slots

+7000 CPU
+18000 PGU

Role bonus per Assault frigate level
+550% increase to whatever weapon they specialize in
+40% sheild/armor/hull resists
+350% increase in Afterburner speed
-40% sig radius

special bonus
-99% CPU and GPU reduction in large and X-large turret/missile turret requirements
+80000% increase in tracking speed
Can fit covert ops cloaking device
Can fit siege module
+100 warp core strength
Can fit warp disruption field generator
Unaffected by warp disruption field generator mass & speed effects


There, are you happy now? AFs are op as f*ck, no one flies anything but AFs, and people will cry about nerfing it.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#20 - 2016-11-03 10:53:26 UTC
give them an assault module which once activated lets you overheat everything with no overheat damage but unable to warp out Big smile

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*