Player Features and Ideas Discussion

No.

Tengu is presently the best T3 out there for PvE in general, and the most used in Fleet PvP. It does'nt need a buff, unless we buff also other T3.

For example, Proteus do only kin/therm damage and Legion em/therm. So it's not an issue if the Tengu received a bonus only to Kin missiles, that and the fact that Kinectic is the racial damage of Caldari.

The only ship that can do omni damage is the Loki, but have a lot less range than the Tengu with heavy missiles.

It's not a buff. Same dps, see?

Oh, and Tengu "Fleet pvp" is a joke. Aside from 100mn ab gemmick, which also apply to other boats, it's glorified drake blobbing, but produces lol kms when they pop. Between lack of buffer and speed, it sucks in pvp. Learn to solo and fly cloaky Proteus, and you will know t3 pvp.

Pilot can choose what missile to use. But Kinetic is their racial damage like Therm/Kin is Galente or EM/Therm is Amarr. So if they choose another damage type, then they need to accept the lost of DPS.

You could at most, give a Thermal missiles bonus to Calda, but not all the 4. But even then, Gallente ship that received already a Thermal bonus would be again surclassed by Calda ship.

And if you think Tengu suck in PvP, then you havent faced them in fleet for sure. I fought tengu in fleet fight and they don't need to have omni damage really. It's already hard to tank Kinetic against Tengu effectively (exept if you fly Gallente) It's like if I had asked to add EM/Expl dmg to gallente ship or Amarr.

There is a background in EVE that need to be understood and respected:

Amarr do EM/Therm

Gallente do Therm/Kin

Caldari do Kin with possibilities to do other type for less damage

Minmatarr do omni

The End.

^Fixed that for you

If you're going to give a boat 1/4 of a bonus, make it em or explosive, not the crap 1/4.

Remove the kinetic-bonus.

Today, the Tengu is the only T3 with two damage-boni, while other T3 feature a dmgmultiplier/RoF-bonus along with 1 or 2 boni that enhance the ship's damage application. So just give the Tengu a ExploVelocity or ExploRadius-bonus instead.

Actually, I am a strong proponent of bringing the Tengu more on par with the other T3. I'm a former L4-Tengupilot, and words can't describe how much I hate this ship nowadays. ;)

It's been acknowledged many times that Caldari is the PvE boat with only a few exceptions. Personally, I think of Gallente as a PvE boat as well, with similar exceptions.

Amarr and Minmatar are the only really effective all-around PvP ships in the game. Minmatar because of its versatility, speed and agility, and highly effective dps capability; and Amarr because of its ability to tank, field drones, Neuts, and a combinaion of range and potential dps. Thermal is also often a hole in even armor tanked ships, and very often the lowest resistance in Omni-tanks.

Damage types in EVE are very NPC oriented, and play no real role in PvP; aside from players knowing what to expect, and thus predictability. Much the same as Faction sensor strength in this regard; you can't hide your capabilities; so anyone looking for PvP just hits the I win button.

Targets are selectable, and effective PvPers don't fight if they can't win; they determine weakness from looking at the ship, and either change fit, or decide if engagement will result in success given numbers and current fits. It's that simple.

If there happens to be surprise involved; then that may change. Gatecamps don't always have the benefit of foreknowledge, and neither do solo players, unless they use a cloaky scout alt.

tl;dr If you want PvP to be unpredictable, and more a measure of skill; then make sure the weaknesses aren't quite so obvious.

DPS without Kinetic missiles on most Caldari missile boats is pathetic at best. Missiles already suck. You can spam the crap out of someones fleet with a bigger blob; but that doesn't really count towards their general usefulness. HMs have long range; that's the only reason why people blob with Drakes and Tengus. If it wasn't that, it'd be Legions.

I have a great fix. Remove the kinetic bonus completely, don't give it anything back. It already does too much damage.

It's Long range ammo does more damage than anything except a Proteus, whilst having 10x the range. If you want lots of damage fly with Hams, and stop sitting at 100km spewing missiles.

Look at all the other T3s with their long range weapon types. You'll soon stop bitching that the Tengu sucks.

While I think it should only be applied when there's a missile velocity bonus (as increasing the missile velocity *should* increase the energy of a kinetic warhead), the kinetic missile damage bonus isn't going anywhere without a total revamp to how missiles work. A 25% damage bonus isn't so great that it won't be effective to switch ammo types against certain targets. What about the Kestrel, Crow and Hawk pilots that get 50% to kinetic damage and so NEVER use anything else ever. The predictability of Caldari missile boats is a counter to their easy-mode combat performance. As a Caldari pilot, I got over it years ago and you can too!

The only problem with the Tengu is that the Rifling Launcher Pattern subsystem gives a terrible bonus (10% to ECM strength per level), which is worse than a Blackbird. I don't see why it shouldn't be buffed to 25% per level so that the Falcon, Rook and Widow remain the best ships for ECM while the Tengu becomes capable of outjamming Caldari T1 as well as the Kitsune.

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