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[Ascension] Phenomena Generators

First post
Author
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#21 - 2016-10-26 15:09:12 UTC
Act-Mack PVT wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
Act-Mack PVT wrote:
WTF is the point of having a titan module that hurts your own fleet as much as it boosts it. This idea of wh effects on supers got you laughed at by the entire community during eve Vegas last year and yet you decided to go ahead with it. Why would you ever think this was a good idea after r/eve and the eve forums roasted you for this idea? Please reply with a decent answer.

The feedback thread for the new Engineering Complexes has 40 pages of people being very concerned with the way industry is going. Fozzie promised a reply over 2 weeks ago...its been abandoned by CCP since.

...don't hold your breath!


Yes, but that wasn't fozzies brainchild, this is.

Just like you said, hold your breath and hope for good decision making from CCP Fozzie.

Didn't say it was, just giving you an idea on when to expect an answer!
Aurthes
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2016-10-26 15:27:51 UTC
penifSMASH wrote:
You'll get a lot of people posting here complaining because lol eve players and change, but these modules look interesting as heck and will force fleets to make tactical gameplay choices.

The Minmatar effect on hybrid/energy turret optimal range seems a bit unfair. It's a direct counter to both armor titans while having no negative effect on shield ones, whereas neither armor titan effect generator has similar gameplay effect on shield titan weapons systems (missiles/projectiles).

Also I feel as if the fuel usage may be a tad bit high but that's a minor issue.



There has been a lot of unfairness to the Minmatar titan for a long time. For cap battles, the signature radius bonus is pretty useless. That really should be addressed, maybe they were somehow trying to compensate for it here...no idea.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2016-10-26 15:39:37 UTC
Leokokim wrote:
Will the +30% hitpoint bonus replace a bonus that is currently given by a active command burst (20%) or will it be added on top?

Also will activating the Generator give you a weapons timer? Unable to jump while cycling? Unable to warp?

Added on top, and just a weapons timer.

Kuhn Arashi wrote:
How do the effects interact when there are competing types of titans on the field?
Does one effect take the advantage over another?
The last one activated?
The one with the highest skills?
Do they stack O.o?

If multiple types of Phenomena are running they'll both apply normally. Multiple copies of the same type of Phenomena don't stack, they'll just refresh the duration of the effect.

xttz wrote:

Why not make these two mirror each other like the Gallente/Caldari ones do? i.e. the Amarr one could penalise missiles & projectiles or the Minmatar one could penalise capacitor.

In general we would actually prefer less mirroring rather than more, as that would lead to more interesting decisions and less overlap if multiple Phenomena are running at once. However if the speed penalty on the Amarr one doesn't end up being interesting enough we're keeping the projectile/missile range option open as a fallback.

Coelomate wrote:
Will any or all of these bonuses be stacking penalized, and if so, against what other modules/attributes/rigs/command bonuses?

Generally this looks like a really cool idea that could generate interesting conflict and content, and I'm excited to see how it turns out!

Whenever these bonuses apply to a stacking penalized attribute (such as resists) they are stacking penalized like a normal module. The resist ones are stacking penalized with hardeners/command bursts and stuff like that, rather than with DCUs and RAHs.

MuraSaki Siki wrote:
are the resist bonus and nerf affect shield/armor/hull all three?

Yup, all three.

utec asmo wrote:
How are cloaked ships affected by the generators?

Cloaked ships do not receive the effect. Neither do ships that are invulnerable from jumping/undocking, tethering or similar states.


Quick clarification on the goals of these modules. We know that quite a few people will not be interested in using them and that's completely fine and expected. These modules are primarily intended for the kinds of people who enjoy experimenting with fleet tactics as a form of creative expression, who see something like this and start having fun thinking about the buildaround possibilities. These are not intended to be modules that get used in every fight. For people familiar with the MTG personas, these are Johnny modules rather than Spike modules.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

drunklies
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-10-26 15:42:23 UTC
Just a few thoughts:

1. How will these boosts effect the grid. Will they ignore teathering, will they stack with other command bursts. How precisely are the bonuses applied?

2. There is a weird disconnect from the racial themes we are used to. Amarr counters caldari, not minmitar. But minmitar does counter amarr. I guess the root of that problem is the kinetic lock.

4. The rag hurts lots of shield ships which have hybrids/lasers as their main weapon system. Lots of these are less used anyway, I dont think they need any further pain.

5. Is remote rep effectiveness the raw hp repaired, the falloff, or some other metric.

6. Are you trying to use the modules to balance out the titan class? The levi and the erebus bonues are vastly more powerful then the others (especially now in the era of faxes), where as the avatar, and to some extent the rag (it can't be kited by an unproped capital) are more capable combat titans.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#25 - 2016-10-26 15:47:10 UTC
Quote:
"Spatial Phenomena Generation". This rank 10 skill


The Face When the Titan AOE Buffs skill is only almost half the time of the Fleet Command 5% range per level CHARISMA skill.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Mostlyharmlesss
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2016-10-26 15:47:31 UTC
This is part of your plan to incentivize more capital fights?

I shudder to think what's in store for us down the road.

Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#27 - 2016-10-26 16:01:42 UTC
Seems like a bit of weak sauce for what could be a really fun system. Where are the real game changers?

I rarely get to fight alongside Titans, but I can imagine some much more interesting things than silly resistance debuffs.

Having rings run around you by kiting fleets? Launch a phenomenon which increases MWD cap usage.

Need to keep evading? Launch a phenomenon to massively reduce MJD cycle.

Too much alpha on field? Launch a phenomenon to increase all weapon ROF and reduce damage.
drunklies
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-10-26 16:10:04 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:



Quick clarification on the goals of these modules. We know that quite a few people will not be interested in using them and that's completely fine and expected. These modules are primarily intended for the kinds of people who enjoy experimenting with fleet tactics as a form of creative expression, who see something like this and start having fun thinking about the buildaround possibilities. These are not intended to be modules that get used in every fight. For people familiar with the MTG personas, these are Johnny modules rather than Spike modules.


Why bother then?

Its a lot of effort, for very little in terms of reward.

Also, if you wanted to have these options available to make things 'interesting' why are you making them faction specific. Let it be a boost module you whack a charge in and can slap on any titan. Don't need to think about if I've got the right 110 billion isk ship, any of them would do.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#29 - 2016-10-26 16:21:14 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
For people familiar with the MTG personas, these are Johnny modules rather than Spike modules.

I used to play this type of game, but I quit when they started adding cards at a pace beyond my ability to digest them. Is there a consensus in CCP how fast you should add new features? Cause it looks like you too are running faster then I can cope.
Cyrus Doul
kotitekoinen sissijuusto
#30 - 2016-10-26 16:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrus Doul
The Avatar one looks fun. I assume that firing this thing does apply to the ship that fires it too. Does it also apply to ships in warp in the 20000km range?

Might require 2 titans if you cant pull this off with the capacitor of one, but set up HAW + have your bubbler for BFGing a passing fleet. They start to land on field into the velocity debuff and the EM nerf, the titan BFG's either killing them outright and having 10% more time to do so as they flee, giving them possibly another couple of ticks. Then the titan opens up with the HAW and is benefited by them either taking more time to get to the gate or lower transversal. The debuff and the primary damage happen while they are still in warp tunnel, so theres no escaping it.
uppo nalle
Finnish Legion
#31 - 2016-10-26 16:57:37 UTC
WHERE IS THE DISLIKE BUTTON?!? I'd hit that so hard now.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=256081&find=unread

John Selth
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2016-10-26 16:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: John Selth
Will it need 40k every cycle or just to active the module once? I think having the isotope consumption similar to how citadel modules work is a good compromise where they have a high one time requirement for fuel to start up but then have a low requirement to keep running. What I see is titans stranding themselves on grid because they use up too much fuel keeping these things online and running constantly.
Orontes Ovasi
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#33 - 2016-10-26 17:16:52 UTC
These changes look great.

Good work as usual, Fozzie.
Ayuren Aakiwa
When i Look Up At The Stars I Am Filled With Rage
#34 - 2016-10-26 17:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayuren Aakiwa
this is the only interesting change in what is easily going to be the worst Eve patch/update of recent times.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#35 - 2016-10-26 18:15:19 UTC
So there's a way to nerf lasers and hybrids on the field, but no way to nerf projectiles and missiles on the field? Hardly seems fair.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Carbon Alabel
Gemini Talon
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#36 - 2016-10-26 18:40:11 UTC
Considering these modules confer negative effects and have a fairly long cycle time, I wouldn't be surprised to see groups receiving the short end of the stick Phenomena Generators warping out, waiting out any weapons timers they might have, getting rid of the effect by docking in a station and then immediately undocking (or taking a gate out of the system and then back in).

While this won't affect those groups that field dozens of titans at once in the slightest, it could prove to be a huge problem for those only fielding one or two of them. Any thoughts on that?
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#37 - 2016-10-26 18:50:10 UTC
That doesn't make any sense; as soon as they come back to the field the effect will be present again. What you described was simply a retreat.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Carbon Alabel
Gemini Talon
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#38 - 2016-10-26 19:02:45 UTC
That might be true. I don't see it specified anywhere if the effects will be applied continuously throughout the cycle or if they are only applied once at the start of the cycle. (Can't check it out on sisi at the moment.)
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#39 - 2016-10-26 19:20:59 UTC
I think they'll be applied the same way command boosts will be; as soon as you enter the active sphere the effects take effect, with perhaps lingering effects if you leave the field.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Mimiko Severovski
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#40 - 2016-10-26 20:32:18 UTC
haha fozzie great moves, keep it up

you are best ccp dev, done wonders so far )