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Algos PvE Armor Tank -- I'm doin' it wrong
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Richard Law
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-10-24 14:34:06 UTC
I'm a noob and can't at fitting at all. After reading wikies and forums (thanks to ShahFluffers for a guide he wrote exactly a year ago :D) I cooked something together but during my first attempt at a L2 missions got blown to pieces (I tried to get closer to "draw aggro" and then fly away, but failed at the second part).

Or maybe Algos can't be used at L2 at all? All and every advice is appreciated!

That's what I got:

[high]
125mm Gatling Rail I x 5, Antimatter / Thorium ammo
Salvager (? - too energy-consuming)

[mid]
Small Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200
1MN Afterburner I (? - replacing by MWD?)
Medium Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender

[small]
Small Armor Repairer I (doesn't repair that much)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Drone Damage Amplifier I

[drone bay]
Hobgoblin II x12

No rigs for now, they hurt armor too much

The problem is when drones are on their own, they die quickly. If I try pulling aggro to me I die too. I do understand I should draw aggro and then stay at range, but this thing is slow. Should I switch to an MWD perhaps?

Like I said, I'm pretty dumb with fits even using EFT. I can evaluate someone's fit, but cooking up my own... Hard.
Iferie
Third Coast Logistics
#2 - 2016-10-24 16:24:47 UTC
Okay, this fit is all over the place. Algos is a drone boat and a squad of Hobgoblins should be tearing through a L2.

Suggestions. 1) Swap the highs for rail guns, you get tracking bonuses to those load long range ammo, aggro the rats from 20 km.

Suggestion 2) You want an afterburner. A MWD is unnecessary for L2s and I'm gathering that you need experience learning how to keep range. Using a MWD that eats cap like candy and flies you off the grid isn't helping. Once you've aggroed the rats, fly away from them on AB in a straight line. They'll chase and with no transversal your rail guns will have no issues hitting.

3) AB, adaptive invulnerability field, and maybe a shield booster if you're not confident in the mids. 5 rails plus a drone link Aug in the highs. Take along a salvage drones or come back with a specialized ship if you want to salvage. 3 drone damage augs in the lows or 2 ddas and 1 drone tracking computer, if your skills are poor and the drones are missing a lot.

If your drones get aggro, pull them back into your drone bay. Theyll drop off the rats aggro list and can be immediately relaunched and retasked.
Birelan Raith
Wraith Industry
#3 - 2016-10-24 17:01:23 UTC
My Algos fit, does lvl 3's easily. Just pick something in the middle and orbit at 40km.
Once you learn how to manage your drone aggro, you can basically sleep through missions.

Damage Control I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender

Drone Link Augmentor I

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I

5x Hobgoblin II
5x Warrior II
2x Salvage Drone I
Richard Law
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-10-24 17:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Law
Iferie wrote:
Okay, this fit is all over the place. Algos is a drone boat and a squad of Hobgoblins should be tearing through a L2.

Suggestions. 1) Swap the highs for rail guns, you get tracking bonuses to those load long range ammo, aggro the rats from 20 km.

Suggestion 2) You want an afterburner. A MWD is unnecessary for L2s and I'm gathering that you need experience learning how to keep range. Using a MWD that eats cap like candy and flies you off the grid isn't helping. Once you've aggroed the rats, fly away from them on AB in a straight line. They'll chase and with no transversal your rail guns will have no issues hitting.

3) AB, adaptive invulnerability field, and maybe a shield booster if you're not confident in the mids. 5 rails plus a drone link Aug in the highs. Take along a salvage drones or come back with a specialized ship if you want to salvage. 3 drone damage augs in the lows or 2 ddas and 1 drone tracking computer, if your skills are poor and the drones are missing a lot.

If your drones get aggro, pull them back into your drone bay. Theyll drop off the rats aggro list and can be immediately relaunched and retasked.


It is, I know. Thanks for the suggestions :)

I actually have 125 Railguns I there, my bad. But their Optimal Range is like 9.000, I doubt I can hit anyone from 10,000, let alone 20.

No MWD, noted. No discussion on that, I had it on my Astero, had troubles controlling the ship.

AIF is a shield modification, right? I thought I should mount an armor tank (the ingame description says Algos is an armor one)?

Birelan Raith wrote:
My Algos fit, does lvl 3's easily. Just pick something in the middle and orbit at 40km.
Once you learn how to manage your drone aggro, you can basically sleep through missions.



No turrets? No rails at all?
Birelan Raith
Wraith Industry
#5 - 2016-10-24 17:05:33 UTC
nope, just use drones for damage
Richard Law
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-10-24 17:27:15 UTC
Tried in on a Mission of Mercy L2... Pulling aggro and flying at 30 km... Got blown again :D That's expensive process. Guess you don't tank rockets like this.
Francis Raven
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2016-10-24 17:35:04 UTC
Richard Law wrote:
Tried in on a Mission of Mercy L2... Pulling aggro and flying at 30 km... Got blown again :D That's expensive process. Guess you don't tank rockets like this.


Make sure you are constantly moving, and get a T2 tank set up asap. Takes what, 4 days of training I think?

If you go into too deep of armor, then warp out and them warp back. Dont be afraid to leave drones behind, you can just "Reconnect to lost drones" when you warp back into the mission pocket.

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Birelan Raith
Wraith Industry
#8 - 2016-10-24 17:45:56 UTC
missions with lots of light missiles can take a couple of warp outs til you thin them out. Nothing else should be a problem as long as you keep range. Also, warp when your shield hits 20%. once your shield is gone, this fit will melt. Once you get comfortable flying it, it does great though. Just did the level 3 angel extravagnza this weekend with only one warpout before the bonus room. needed to swap in a couple of valkrie II's to kill the battleships in the bonus room, everything else a breeze.
Richard Law
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-10-24 17:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Law
Francis Raven wrote:
Richard Law wrote:
Tried in on a Mission of Mercy L2... Pulling aggro and flying at 30 km... Got blown again :D That's expensive process. Guess you don't tank rockets like this.


Make sure you are constantly moving, and get a T2 tank set up asap. Takes what, 4 days of training I think?



T2 tank is what, a shield? I guess that's around a week or longer, no?

Birelan Raith wrote:
Also, warp when your shield hits 20%.


You mean 20% left or 20% damage? one missile hit in this mission takes like 10-15% of my shield O_o
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#10 - 2016-10-24 18:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Do Little
Warp out when your shield alarm goes off - that will be 25%. You can also add a couple of shield rigs to increase your tank although they will also increase your signature. Depending who you're fighting you can plug the EM and thermal holes in your shield or go for a core defense shield extender (or 2). As others have said, keep moving with the afterburner running - pick something and orbit.

Edit: 1 hit should not do that much damage to your shield. Is your invulnerability field turned on?
Iferie
Third Coast Logistics
#11 - 2016-10-24 19:06:52 UTC
To clarify, you are actually turning on your shield hardners and afterburner? Outside of maybe an Angel daredevil frig, nothing should be able to catch you while AB is running unless you get webbed (and if so you need to be prioritizing the Webber's). You also are aware of the different ammo types for rail guns? Unlike missile or projectile ammo you have fixed damage type with rails, but the choice of ammo modifies your range and damage. If you're using nothing but antimatter rounds then you're getting the best damage but crippling your range. Also note you can shoot past your optimal. Once you shoot past optimal + falloff then most everything will miss.

Missing though still largely accomplishes the point. Sending a salvo of rail gun charges past your target will still draw aggro,even if it's better to actually apply your DPS. The danger comes when the rats detect that you're not taking any offensive action against them either from weapons or EWAR. That's when it becomes likely the rats will turn on your drones.
Richard Law
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-10-24 20:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Law
Iferie wrote:
To clarify, you are actually turning on your shield hardners and afterburner?


Yes, I do. Can't outrun the missiles tho. 75 base damage from 6 frigates means I'm getting 450 DPS with 920 tank only. So...

I use mainly Thorium charges due to the range bonus.

So shooting from like 20 km and then turning away shall draw their attention and allow drones do the job? I'll try one I get some money to replace another Algos :D

I must be ultranoob, lol, but those guys beat me with eyes closed.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#13 - 2016-10-24 21:01:43 UTC
I played with an Algos fit on EFT assuming level 3 skills

[Algos, Algos]
Damage Control I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Upgraded Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I
1MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner

150mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Iron Charge S
150mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Iron Charge S
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin I x5

I chose the kinetic deflection amp because I'm assuming your opponent is Gurista pirates. This fit gives you 70% resists against kinetic missiles.
Overall EHP is 6902 hitpoints
Speed with AB is 571 m/s
Signature is 85m
Capacitor is stable at 46% with level 3 skills.
DPS is 123 with hobgoblin 1's, increasing to 147 with hobgoblin 2's
With iron, the railguns have 26km optimal - basically a way to draw agro away from the drones. I fit 2 because that's all the CPU I had with level 3 skills.
Drone control range is 44Km - you shouldn't need a drone link augmenter

This ship should be able to comfortably run the SOE Epic Arc - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/The_Blood-Stained_Stars
I recommend doing so to practise your piloting skills. You always want to be moving at 571 m/s! Find something to orbit (i.e. a wreck). It is true the missiles will still hit but they will only apply a fraction of their potential damage. Read up on explosion radius and explosion velocity - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage
Richard Law
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-10-25 06:22:37 UTC
Do Little wrote:
I played with an Algos fit on EFT assuming level 3 skills

I chose the kinetic deflection amp because I'm assuming your opponent is Gurista pirates. This fit gives you 70% resists against kinetic missiles.
Overall EHP is 6902 hitpoints
Speed with AB is 571 m/s
Signature is 85m
Capacitor is stable at 46% with level 3 skills.
DPS is 123 with hobgoblin 1's, increasing to 147 with hobgoblin 2's
With iron, the railguns have 26km optimal - basically a way to draw agro away from the drones. I fit 2 because that's all the CPU I had with level 3 skills.
Drone control range is 44Km - you shouldn't need a drone link augmenter

This ship should be able to comfortably run the SOE Epic Arc - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/The_Blood-Stained_Stars
I recommend doing so to practise your piloting skills. You always want to be moving at 571 m/s! Find something to orbit (i.e. a wreck). It is true the missiles will still hit but they will only apply a fraction of their potential damage. Read up on explosion radius and explosion velocity - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage


A very detailed reply, thanks!

They're actually Mercenaries, but nevertheless do Kinetic/Thermal.

And control range is that much due to lvl IV Avionics? I think I'm at lvl II now and it's 30 km...

Actually, I've all but completed SoE's arc (except for Mr Dagan). In my Astero with an MWD :D Just orbited the hell out of them, no one was able to at least hit me, let alone damage. Dagan's shield kung fu was better, though. His shield appears to absorb around 100 DPS, and I can't approach him because of his neuting. Might try him this evening, using the suggestions provided by all of you here :)
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#15 - 2016-10-25 08:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: erg cz
Just because you can do some mission in some ship, it does not mean you should. ISK/time ratio is important. As newbie with low skill (I assume you do not use skill injectors) you are better off with Gnosis. Yes it will cost you much, but it will also saves you lots of time. And it will be much cheapier after expansion since many players will get it for free. It will give you all bonuses before you get your skills.

Rapid light missile launchers, passive shield tank and hyperspatial velocity rigs for L2 missions.
Heavy missile launchers, active armor or shield tank, two sentry drones for L3 missions.
Rattlesnake for L4 mission.

It is important to apply proper damage type on rats in mission. You will strugle against blood rangers if you use hybrid charges, for example. Cause they are weak against EM damage and you do mostly Kinetic. Thats why drones and missiles are the way to go. Also rats will jam you and FoF missiles will still work under the dump/ECM, sentry drones will even focus on jamming NPC first. Check eve-survival.org to find out, what to use in what mission.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#16 - 2016-10-25 08:40:27 UTC
Dagan can tank 100 dps. As I recall he uses a target painter - Kritsan Parthus has the neuts. If you have the skills for T2 drones you can easily kill both without getting too close. You will need to train the relevant Gallente hull skill - each level increases drone damage and hitpoints by 10% and you may need to fit some drone damage amps so plan to shield tank.

Drone control range is 20Km + 5Km/level of drone avionics + 3Km/level of advanced drone avionics. 60Km max without rigs or modules. I made a character with all skills at level 3 so 20+15+9=44. Your mileage may vary depending on which skills you actually have. 30-40Km should let you control range in a level 2 mission.
Richard Law
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-10-25 14:51:36 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Just because you can do some mission in some ship, it does not mean you should. ISK/time ratio is important. As newbie with low skill (I assume you do not use skill injectors) you are better off with Gnosis. Yes it will cost you much, but it will also saves you lots of time.


This is reasonable and I agree, but since I'm a ultranoob I can die even in a Gnosis, and that would be a huge financial hit. I had an almost uncatcheble Astero once, but it got blown to pieces on a gatecamp when I tried to cloak near a wreck. Duh. (I'm also afraid that I buy Gnosis and someone shoots me in highsec for loot and modules. I know I'm too slow to react).

Alright, I think I got the idea. I'll try it on these Mercenaries. Thanks for helping another noob out :)
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#18 - 2016-10-25 17:42:53 UTC
If I may ask, why didn't you stick with Caldari? You should have been able to fly the Corax, which is very forgiving and uses missiles.
Drones really need a little more experience, not skillpoints.

You said, you are slow to react. That is okay. You would have to train your eyes to look for pointers for handling your drones proper.
When all of the red thingies that could shoot you are blinking red mean they actually shoot you. When some of them no longer blink in red means they are shooting something else - your drones.

That is a perfect time to recall them. Wait until everything red is blinking at least yellow again (2-3 seconds after your drones are in the bay) and launch your drones again.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Richard Law
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-10-26 11:37:11 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
If I may ask, why didn't you stick with Caldari? You should have been able to fly the Corax, which is very forgiving and uses missiles.
Drones really need a little more experience, not skillpoints.

You said, you are slow to react. That is okay. You would have to train your eyes to look for pointers for handling your drones proper.
When all of the red thingies that could shoot you are blinking red mean they actually shoot you. When some of them no longer blink in red means they are shooting something else - your drones.

That is a perfect time to recall them. Wait until everything red is blinking at least yellow again (2-3 seconds after your drones are in the bay) and launch your drones again.

Of course you may, but I might be unable to produce a comprehensive reply -- considering I chose Caldari not only because of their background, but also for missiles. However, I liked the way drones work. So here I am. Guess I just like playing this way, flying Gallente ships by a Caldari pilot. I dunno. Anyway retraining for missiles will take some time, I'm already heavy enough into drone field.

That's why I'm sticking to L1 missions for now, trying to get some experience on using drones :)

And if I fire at those solid red thingies from 20km and miss, would that re-attract them to me?