Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So with the introduction of alpha clones, i thought of a potentially neat idea for CCP to bring back a new version of the bloodlines system (or more specifically, give an actual difference to choosing one race or school over the other).

Bumping up the starting SP for everyone (not just alpha clones) and sorting skills more into the industrialist/militarist/scientist schools upon start would be an excellent way for newer players to 'choose' a particular playstyle at the outset that helps them get to where they want to go more quickly.

As for racial bonuses, a practical idea would be to have attributes modified appropriately, and while they would be generally focused on certain playstyles in terms of attribute allocation, they would be different (ex. having Crivire and Brutor be very combat focused, but crivire having higher willpower and memory than brutor, and brutor having higher perception and charisma). This can be compounded removing the initial attribute remap, and have players gain additional remaps every 5m sp or so (or something along those lines; number is arbitrary).

I think this would be helpful for newer players coming in from games (almost every game) who are used to having class and racial differences, but retains the same freedom of choice that is the hallmark of EVE online.

EDIT: A major reason to consider this as well is that with the SP cap, having alpha clones not having to carry around SP they have little to no interest in using is advantages as it lets them specialize more in their field, with more SP available to them before they hit their cap.

Bloodlines do make a difference, if you are a roleplayer!

It would be cool to have a special minor bonus to bloodlines, but then again it might just lead to game imbalance when everyone has to choose one bloodline over another for stat boosts.

The whole point of being a capsuleer is that it transcends culture and genetics, if you want it to. You can give a clone any kinds of genes you want. Culture is a thing that is deeply ingrained but it's difficult to map out how this may affect every individual. I don't think anyone would argue genius in any of mankind's arenas arises all over the world, with peculiarities of culture affecting how easy it is for such a genius to gain access to education and a way of life that allows them to thrive. (For example what if Einstein was born in a different year and diverted from his path slightly, he would have been sent to the gas chambers by the Nazis.)

I think that innovation and genius arises mostly out of a cultural enviroment, humans as a species are very intelligent, but Western civilization as defined by The Enlightenment far outpaces any other civilization due to its focus on individual rights, brotherly love (humanitarianism) and reason.

I think if CCP decided definitely that there were very very distinctive differences in the bloodlines or races they would have to admit at some point that there were emerging subspecies and that would be quite unscientific, as 20,000 years is not nearly enough time for a species to evolve significant mutations except in remarkable circumstances such as the time dilation chambers used by the Sleepers in the storyline, or the Jovians mucking about with their genetics.


What has bothered me a bit about bloodlines is it's never really been clear what makes it a "bloodline" for example I have a Khanid main who has a cyberknight father and a zealot mother. Now I try to play this out so she is somewhat half religious-crazy and somewhat good at being a capsuleer, and altogether a spaz, and I just assume she is a "technically" a cyberknight since Amarr society is seemingly patriarchal, and the players have encouraged patriarchy, but I created her as a zealot. So I treat the bloodline thing as her "tendency" that is she thinks she is a cyberknight when she is really a bit of a religious nutcase deep down getting those traits from both her mother and father's culture but also here genes. No one can see the bloodline of another character so it may just be one of those artifacts from a time when the game designers were more focused on creating a deep world similar to the intricacies of World of Darkness for example.

What you describe is an advantage. The bloodline with the optimal attributes for a given and usually popular task has an advantage over other bloodlines because you not only start out with these attributes but also do not need to use a remap as early as other blood lines need to to train other things. That is essentially what the old bloodlines were.

Because who wouldn't want to reintroduce a ****** mechanic from yesteryear that was removed precisely because it was a ****** mechanic?

Everything old becomes new again.

If you don't think the answers have been clear, you need to sit down with a dictionary, re-read the answers, and look up all the words that you're presumably getting stuck on.


This bit? This, right here?



This is pretty much exactly why it was removed in the first place.

How do you imagine it is in a new player's best interest to basically handcuff them to a specialization you've forced them to decide on before they've had a chance to actually play the ******* game for a bit? "Yeah, hi, new guy. You don't even know how to undock, yet, but we're going to need you to go ahead and decide what kind of player you want to be right now."

And spare us the, "b..b..but it only matters for a few months!" garbage. That's an eternity from a new player's perspective.

TL;DR: Anachronistic garbage that has absolutely no place in the game today. If they're going to do anything with attributes, it should be outright removal of the concept.

This is a straight up Malcanis's Law idea: The primary beneficiary is veterans who know what they're doing and would use it for faster alt training - not the clueless newbie who may make a decision (or merely click past a decision) only to regret it later.

Again, the argument is completely bogus because it, and i repeat, DOESN'T AFFECT IMMEDIATE OR LONG-TERM GAMEPLAY. it has no actual disadvantages other than making people think a little harder about what they want their new character to do. Most MMO's currently in existence have a class system for a good reason, not the least is the psychology of personalizing your character when you make them. Now i'm not saying it was done right initially, but there's certainly room to bring it back if it's executed correctly, and it's too heavily integrated into the game to remove effectively.

You're saying the issues at the start of the gameplay matter because it's only contingent on the choices going into it, NOT the outcome of that decision. That would hold true for any other game that doesn't have a skill system like eve does.

That is a good point and is true, but the difference now versus then is that alpha clones are stuck with a set cap of SP. An advantage to starting-game specialization is that you don't have to deal with skill you have no interest in using, and have more room before you hit your cap.

And when, 4 days in, they realize that, while they thought they would like this mining business, it turns out that it's actually the least fun they've ever had in a video game would like to try something else instead?

And you do understand that the SP cap allows an alpha character to train every alpha-skill to the alpha-ceiling, right? So why would they need "more room"?

If it actually did provide "more room", that would be even worse because when they want to try something different, now they would be trapped with SP they wasted on their initial decision. Started as a miner, settled on combat? Better reroll or drop some bling on an extractor because you're never going to be as effective as a character that started out combat-oriented within the alpha cap.

Again, who does this benefit? The veteran who wants to make an alpha-alt and knows exactly how to train it. That guy could definitely make good use of that extra room.

Stop trying to shove people into a box "for their own good". It's just painfully, infuriatingly stupid.

-1 to this idea in its entirety.


If given a choice between one character with high attributes in willpower and perception... and another character with high attributes in perception and charisma... there is no good reason why you should choose the latter character. Ever.

Charisma only affects Trade and Leadership skills... which are relatively short trains even with "off attributes."


This is why, when Bloodlines actually mattered, the game saw a MASSIVE influx of Caldari characters.
Their stats may have only been a point or two better than the other races with similar attribute stacking... but the min/max nature of EVE rewards players who think in the very long term... resulting in increasingly more and more min/maxing of characters on this sole basis.

Thus, "Bloodlines" were eventually removed.


What you are proposing OP is EXACTLY (to the letter) how the old Bloodlines system was designed.
No... seriously; you literally reinvented the wheel here!


And as for the argument of "what detriment will it cause?"

The moment you create a choice between being optimal or suboptimal in something, there ceases to be a choice at all.

Making a "suboptimal" choice because "it won't matter in a few months" is not a choice. It is an invitation to abuse the system and cause an imbalance (as I mentioned above).

No.

Please no.