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The Nature of Experience as a Capsuleer
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Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2016-10-21 07:51:46 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
CONCORD once had a store where capsuleers could buy all sorts of merchandise and among these was a treatise ( Handbook Sigma Omega Rho 37 -- Archival Database Zero Kappa colloquially referred to as Source ) on all the history, culture, and data about signatories.

However, since CONCORD closed that store and took down their CRC databases I can only assume a plot is afoot to create some revisionist history.

Although as an aside, it's unfortunate I can't get one of those Inner Circle mystery codes because I'm told they've proven to be very useful and owners are all glad they got one.


I actually have a copy of Source. I do not, however, remember seeing CONCORD rulings in it.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-10-21 08:08:50 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
CONCORD once had a store where capsuleers could buy all sorts of merchandise and among these was a treatise ( Handbook Sigma Omega Rho 37 -- Archival Database Zero Kappa colloquially referred to as Source ) on all the history, culture, and data about signatories.

However, since CONCORD closed that store and took down their CRC databases I can only assume a plot is afoot to create some revisionist history.

Although as an aside, it's unfortunate I can't get one of those Inner Circle mystery codes because I'm told they've proven to be very useful and owners are all glad they got one.


I actually have a copy of Source. I do not, however, remember seeing CONCORD rulings in it.


That's because CONCORD desires the continued subjugation of the capsuleer class through ignorance. Knowledge is power and CONCORD wants as much of that to themselves. Because in controlling it, they can reshape truth and perception to suit their own agendas.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2016-10-21 08:11:07 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
CONCORD once had a store where capsuleers could buy all sorts of merchandise and among these was a treatise ( Handbook Sigma Omega Rho 37 -- Archival Database Zero Kappa colloquially referred to as Source ) on all the history, culture, and data about signatories.

However, since CONCORD closed that store and took down their CRC databases I can only assume a plot is afoot to create some revisionist history.

Although as an aside, it's unfortunate I can't get one of those Inner Circle mystery codes because I'm told they've proven to be very useful and owners are all glad they got one.


I actually have a copy of Source. I do not, however, remember seeing CONCORD rulings in it.


That's because CONCORD desires the continued subjugation of the capsuleer class through ignorance. Knowledge is power and CONCORD wants as much of that to themselves. Because in controlling it, they can reshape truth and perception to suit their own agendas.


We should head out to DED Operation ISHAEKA Staging Areas to deliver our piece of mind by way of torpedoes.

I say that maybe because I want an excuse to fly a Typhoon.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#24 - 2016-10-21 08:15:28 UTC
Maybe.

Honestly though, galnet is terrible for actually finding information on much of anything.

It is however good for conspiracy theories, overused memes, homoerotic slashfiction involving capsuleers, and Major League Capsuleering parody videos.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2016-10-21 08:20:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Maybe.

Honestly though, galnet is terrible for actually finding information on much of anything.

It is however good for conspiracy theories, overused memes, homoerotic slashfiction involving capsuleers, and Major League Capsuleering parody videos.


I will dispute that. Galnet is actually pretty useful for sourcing information for as long as one knows what keywords to search for.

However, there are information that are actually inaccessible from the Galnet. Typically the sensitive government sort. There's also the research papers, which must be paid for before they can be accessed.

I use Galnet frequently for firmware source codes, where available, open source blueprints, just plain information, etc etc. And the occasional cat videos.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#26 - 2016-10-21 08:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Well I suppose I forgot Galnet also has its pedants who feel the need to use the, "Citation needed," Argument to try and, 'win', a trivial argument while the limited information made available and accessible to be copy and posted to the IGS due to CONCORD digital rights management on the necocom means there isn't exactly an extensive body of work to do so for a capsuleer.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2016-10-21 08:55:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Well I suppose I forgot Galnet also has its pedants who feel the need to use the, "Citation needed," Argument to try and, 'win', a trivial argument while the limited information made available and accessible to be copy and posted to the IGS due to CONCORD digital rights management on the necocom means there isn't exactly an extensive body of work to do so for a capsuleer.


It is only good practice to actually cite your sources if you are trying to present information as facts. Otherwise, every single paper ever published might as well be based on imagination rather than existing bodies of work. This is not a good way to ensure that any information about however things work is actually reliable.

Of course, THOSE papers you usually have to pay for access.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#28 - 2016-10-21 09:16:15 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Well I suppose I forgot Galnet also has its pedants who feel the need to use the, "Citation needed," Argument to try and, 'win', a trivial argument while the limited information made available and accessible to be copy and posted to the IGS due to CONCORD digital rights management on the necocom means there isn't exactly an extensive body of work to do so for a capsuleer.


It is only good practice to actually cite your sources if you are trying to present information as facts. Otherwise, every single paper ever published might as well be based on imagination rather than existing bodies of work. This is not a good way to ensure that any information about however things work is actually reliable.

Of course, THOSE papers you usually have to pay for access.


Citation needed on the existence of these cats you mentioned that is third-party verifiable solely on galnet neocom.

I require these facts otherwise cats don't exist except in your imagination.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2016-10-21 09:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Well I suppose I forgot Galnet also has its pedants who feel the need to use the, "Citation needed," Argument to try and, 'win', a trivial argument while the limited information made available and accessible to be copy and posted to the IGS due to CONCORD digital rights management on the necocom means there isn't exactly an extensive body of work to do so for a capsuleer.


It is only good practice to actually cite your sources if you are trying to present information as facts. Otherwise, every single paper ever published might as well be based on imagination rather than existing bodies of work. This is not a good way to ensure that any information about however things work is actually reliable.

Of course, THOSE papers you usually have to pay for access.


Citation needed on the existence of these cats you mentioned that is third-party verifiable solely on galnet neocom.

I require these facts otherwise cats don't exist except in your imagination.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nZMHBDw8os

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat (linked to many, many, many other sources)

You asked for it.

By the way, I actually hate cats.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#30 - 2016-10-21 11:04:34 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
By the way, I actually hate cats.

How could you!?
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#31 - 2016-10-21 12:48:06 UTC
Life as a capsuleer isn't something entirely special. It's life. We have the luxury of being able to live, die, then live again. It does give us tremendous potential. Other than that, we exist in a war-torn cluster where war, piracy, kidnapping entire colonies with a tractor beam to implant as slaves and corruption are commonplace. They've been common for far longer than we've had capsuleers too. It's only normal that we'd have people go above and beyond on the criminality scale when they become a capsuleer. It's all they've seen from the world. That's about it, I think.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#32 - 2016-10-21 13:04:23 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Well I suppose I forgot Galnet also has its pedants who feel the need to use the, "Citation needed," Argument to try and, 'win', a trivial argument while the limited information made available and accessible to be copy and posted to the IGS due to CONCORD digital rights management on the necocom means there isn't exactly an extensive body of work to do so for a capsuleer.


It is only good practice to actually cite your sources if you are trying to present information as facts. Otherwise, every single paper ever published might as well be based on imagination rather than existing bodies of work. This is not a good way to ensure that any information about however things work is actually reliable.

Of course, THOSE papers you usually have to pay for access.


Citation needed on the existence of these cats you mentioned that is third-party verifiable solely on galnet neocom.

I require these facts otherwise cats don't exist except in your imagination.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nZMHBDw8os

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat (linked to many, many, many other sources)

You asked for it.

By the way, I actually hate cats.


I cannot verify the veracity of those sources, now can I? Anyone can edit that wiki and make things up like:

Since cats were venerated in ancient Egypt, they were commonly believed to have been domesticated there,[11] but there may have been instances of domestication as early as the Neolithic from around 9,500 years ago (7,500 BC).[12] A genetic study in 2007 concluded that domestic cats are descended from Near Eastern wildcats, having diverged around 8,000 BC in West Asia.[11][13] A 2016 study found that leopard cats were undergoing domestication independently in China around 5,500 BC, though this line of partially domesticated cats leaves no trace in the domesticated populations of today.[14][15]

As of a 2007 study, cats are the second most popular pet in the United States by number of pets owned, behind freshwater fish

Egypt? China? United States? A 2007 study?

The product of quite the active imagination there, Mr. Egivand.

You're the one that seems to demand absolute literalism in available facts -- why make them up? Show me where the cats are in New Eden.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2016-10-21 13:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


You're the one that seems to demand absolute literalism in available facts -- why make them up? Show me where the cats are in New Eden.


My allergies are enough proof *sniffles**sneezes*
Elanion
#34 - 2016-10-21 14:24:24 UTC
I've seen references to such a creature, though I myself don't get dirt-side much. Seen great herds of livestock in transit between haulers on a Combined Harvest station once, now there's a smell I won't soon forget. The specs for the air purification filters must have been below tolerance or something.

Anyway, I'm sure I've read about it on some wee-hours infotrawl. Archetypal predator. Claws, fangs, and muscle. Scary stuff.

((Just my two ISK here, but the Chronicle 'Cities of Refuge' contains a reference, and idioms appear in several others. If we read from 'within the narrative' of the PF, then a cat could be said to be a thing of which the denizens of New Eden have some concept. Or maybe there's a few layers of Gallente irony here that I'm too dull to grasp.))

RIP YC111-115 • "The project discarded, its subjects forgotten... thence must the burden be shouldered."
Arrendis
TK Corp
#35 - 2016-10-21 14:28:41 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Show me where the cats are in New Eden.


Samira's got two of them.
Ameriya
Doomheim
#36 - 2016-10-21 17:07:54 UTC
*Uploads a video of her mewling. Ears and tail visible. Then she smiles and it fades out.*
Someone called for a cat?
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#37 - 2016-10-21 20:26:56 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Show me where the cats are in New Eden.


Samira's got two of them.

*holds up a grumpy looking Sphynx"

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#38 - 2016-10-22 00:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


You're the one that seems to demand absolute literalism in available facts -- why make them up? Show me where the cats are in New Eden.


My allergies are enough proof *sniffles**sneezes*


That may be, but I think I've made a point about trying to pillory people on points where there is a known lack of available information to directly reference in discussion. It's not even a new tactic to state, "Aha, you cannot quote the source material therefore your argument is invalid!" Here on the IGS, it's just a very, very inane one.

Because if, as I've demonstrated, how difficult it is to prove something as simple as cats existing based purely on the available information of the neocom then trying to do the same on other topics of discussion is just being a pedant for the sake of being a pedant.

The statements:

"I own a cat"; and

"I have read the Book of Missions"

For example, are broadly believable if someone says them to me because cats are a popular companion animal and the Book of Missions are a core text of the Imperial Rite but due to the nature of accessible information on our neocoms one can't prove cats exist nor reproduce the Book of Missions. Trying to debate purely on points of lacking reference to available information as a capsuleer then is, as I've said, inane.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#39 - 2016-10-22 08:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
(( I don't normally post OOC on the IGS, but this thread isn't in-character at all anyway so I'll take the forum warning for it. I mean really. Inventing constitutions, linking to chronicles, linking to RL wikipedias, and claiming that because something isn't written on EVElopedia it can't be accessed by anyone ever? Wow.

The problem has nothing to do with "the Neocom doesn't have this information." It is about people trying to tear down the fourth wall just so they can win RP arguments. **** citations. No one gives a **** about what you can prove. Our characters can write their opinions and nothing more, it is not possible to construct real, cited research papers. CCP/ISD cannot write down every single little factoid in an IC-usable fashion. But that doesn't mean those facts don't exist. It just means people have to stop trying to appeal to authority when constructing their fake internet arguments. You cannot and will not win those arguments by what you can or cannot cite. And if the core of your argument is that something is or is not available from CCP then you're not making a good argument to begin with.

This thread should have been an OOC discussion on Backstage or EVE Fiction. Not an IC one.

If you have a reply to this post then PM me. I'm not going to be replying to this thread beyond this post, and I'll probably report this post for deletion later anyway. ))
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#40 - 2016-10-22 08:33:18 UTC
Fantastic work super sleuths on discovering verifiable information on cats.[1][2] However, I had no interest in proof of cats[1][2] as much as exploring the precedent set when one questions the validity of benign comments like, "I own a cat[1][2]."

Because if one looks at the cat[1][2] question, and the verifiable information on cats[1][2] on the neocom, then one has to consider the dates of when that material was available. As such, if you said you owned a cat[1][2] prior to when that material was available does that mean your cat[1][2] wasn't real until it could be cited as real via information on the neocom? Were all cats[1][2] existing in some kind of transposed quantum state until CONCORD collapsed their wave function into reality via the neocom?

That's just one potential absurdity as example when one embarks on desiring complete literalism based solely on information made available on the neocom, instead of the greyer determinations of an acceptable plausibility in statements.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
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