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Questions about Blood Raider site ganking (contesting)

Author
Korobov Tesla
New Eden Nationalist Movement
#1 - 2016-10-20 01:30:53 UTC
I am trying to figure out how the mechanic works that allows someone to pop into your site and steal your BC spawn even tho I can lock and get damage on it first.. I am flying a Navy Vexor so pretty much all drone damage, I figured that the drones were takeing to long to get to the target even if I had it locked first so I put a rail gun on there to get DPS as soon as the target is locked and that doesn't seem to work.

What am I doing wrong here? I am not so much interested in ganking people as I am defending my site against someone who wants to gank me.
unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2016-10-20 01:47:16 UTC
Korobov Tesla wrote:
I am trying to figure out how the mechanic works that allows someone to pop into your site and steal your BC spawn even tho I can lock and get damage on it first...


it isn't your
Korobov Tesla
New Eden Nationalist Movement
#3 - 2016-10-20 01:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Korobov Tesla
unidenify wrote:
Korobov Tesla wrote:
I am trying to figure out how the mechanic works that allows someone to pop into your site and steal your BC spawn even tho I can lock and get damage on it first...


it isn't your

You're right. MY
unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2016-10-20 01:52:00 UTC
you have no claim to site or spawn. only person who is fast enough to loot wreck first is one who win. not one who shoot first.

and if you talk about ganker steal your loot without suspect flag, it is because they shoot at it, therefore they are eligible for loot as well.
Korobov Tesla
New Eden Nationalist Movement
#5 - 2016-10-20 01:53:55 UTC
unidenify wrote:
you have no claim to site or spawn. only person who is fast enough to loot wreck first is one who win. not one who shoot first.

and if you talk about ganker steal your loot without suspect flag, it is because they shoot at it, therefore they are eligible for loot as well.


So if we both shoot at it the person who gets to it first can loot it without suspect flag?
unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2016-10-20 01:58:35 UTC
Korobov Tesla wrote:
unidenify wrote:
you have no claim to site or spawn. only person who is fast enough to loot wreck first is one who win. not one who shoot first.

and if you talk about ganker steal your loot without suspect flag, it is because they shoot at it, therefore they are eligible for loot as well.


So if we both shoot at it the person who gets to it first can loot it without suspect flag?


only time wreck would flag if it appear yellow to you. and you would get suspect flag. if it appear blue or white, you won't get suspect flag. and if you and other person shoot at it, it will be white to you and other person.
Korobov Tesla
New Eden Nationalist Movement
#7 - 2016-10-20 02:05:09 UTC
unidenify wrote:
Korobov Tesla wrote:
unidenify wrote:
you have no claim to site or spawn. only person who is fast enough to loot wreck first is one who win. not one who shoot first.

and if you talk about ganker steal your loot without suspect flag, it is because they shoot at it, therefore they are eligible for loot as well.


So if we both shoot at it the person who gets to it first can loot it without suspect flag?


only time wreck would flag if it appear yellow to you. and you would get suspect flag. if it appear blue or white, you won't get suspect flag. and if you and other person shoot at it, it will be white to you and other person.


It's yellow to me even after I shoot at it.
erg cz
ErgoDron
#8 - 2016-10-20 08:25:50 UTC
You need DPS or alpha. With dps ship you need to apply damage all the time, Alpha ship should fire only when BC is in structure. I fly DPS ship, so I won most fights, but often competitor Gila or arty svipul could still get an upper hand. Because Gila drones have almost 2000 Alpha strike and arty is ... you know...
Never the less, side itself is deadly boring so I even welcome the competition (in place I live sides appears every few minutes, so no problem to lose one or two). It is true, though, that local ppl starts to hate me :(
Sentenced 1989
#9 - 2016-10-20 10:13:56 UTC
Korobov Tesla wrote:
unidenify wrote:
Korobov Tesla wrote:
unidenify wrote:
you have no claim to site or spawn. only person who is fast enough to loot wreck first is one who win. not one who shoot first.

and if you talk about ganker steal your loot without suspect flag, it is because they shoot at it, therefore they are eligible for loot as well.


So if we both shoot at it the person who gets to it first can loot it without suspect flag?


only time wreck would flag if it appear yellow to you. and you would get suspect flag. if it appear blue or white, you won't get suspect flag. and if you and other person shoot at it, it will be white to you and other person.


It's yellow to me even after I shoot at it.


It is not who shot if first, it is who shot it last who gets it.
Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-10-20 10:57:38 UTC
Sentenced 1989 wrote:

It is not who shot if first, it is who shot it last who gets it.


I thought the owner of the wreck was determined by "who did the most damage" ?
Sentenced 1989
#11 - 2016-10-20 12:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentenced 1989
Chan'aar wrote:
Sentenced 1989 wrote:

It is not who shot if first, it is who shot it last who gets it.


I thought the owner of the wreck was determined by "who did the most damage" ?


Nope, last hit... easily testable, get an alt into frigate and start shooting an rat, stop when it is at 5% hull, finish it off with your main, your main will own the wreck.

So what you can do it this case - learn your adversary and time your shoots. Figure out how much damage you can at once and go from there. For example, my confessor can kill that BC in 3-4 shots. I know that if armor of that BC is below 30% I will definitely kill it. Once I am in room with drone boat I can just wait till it is at around 50% and activate my guns. By the time my ship fires drones will most likely take that 20% diff and I will finish it. But I also met guy in Naga who could kill it as soon as shields are gone in one shot in which case I risk and let him fire first, then overheat my guns and fire as well. Sometimes he killed the rat with alpha damage (full volley damage from your guns) alone and sometimes the rat would stay in hull in which case I would finish it.

Anyways, figure out what works for your situation and apply it.
Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-10-20 13:47:44 UTC
Sentenced 1989 wrote:


Nope, last hit... easily testable, get an alt into frigate and start shooting an rat, stop when it is at 5% hull, finish it off with your main, your main will own the wreck.



Ugh
Well 9 years of not understanding game mechanics for the win then.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#13 - 2016-10-20 13:51:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
unidenify wrote:
you have no claim to site or spawn. only person who is fast enough to loot wreck first is one who win. not one who shoot first.

and if you talk about ganker steal your loot without suspect flag, it is because they shoot at it, therefore they are eligible for loot as well.

Just a little more information to clarify this.

Loot and salvage need to be discussed separately,because it is always legal to salvage a wreck anywhere in space and it's color does not matter. But then salvaging requires the use of a salvage beam or salvage drones.

Abandoned wrecks (blue color) are always legal for anyone and everyone to loot or salvage so they are not relevant here other than as a casual mention.

Now on to the rest.
There is much confusion on this and the one link I had that discussed it in a semi official way was removed when CCP shut down the old EvE-lopedia. A quick search only finds debates on various forums that list both side of the argument as the real truth, in absence of any definitive statements from CCP I will go with my personal observations based on high sec mission and site running.
I have shot an NPC down to a few percent of structure and then lost the bounty to another player while I reload.
I have warped into a mission / site and fired a single shot at a NPC battleship and received the bounty.
Based on many years of this happening I have to believe that wreck ownership is determined by who fired the last shot and no other factors matter.

I find it highly unlikely that the other player was there to gank you, usually gankers do not bother with looting wrecks simply because what ever they may pick up only has a 50% chance of surviving their destruction by Concord. They may have been a scout / warp in point for a gank squad, came in to see what you were flying and decide if you were worth losing ships over and decided to see what was there for the taking instead.

The two most likely options for your case are the ninja looter thing and someone hoping to bait you into a fight by stealing from you.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#14 - 2016-10-20 16:13:40 UTC
It is always the last shot that makes the kill, is the one who gets the bounty, or rights to any loot. If it's yellow, it's not yours.

However, I've come across some un-fearing pilots, who just go and take the loot out from under you, and quickly warp off.

By the time I target them, they're gone.

So it really doesn't matter who gets the kill, it's whoever can loot the wreck first.

Anyway, if they were in fleet, it would have been 3 Gilas against one BC, in a PVE fit.

But c'mon, do you guys need 3 Gilas to do these Blood Raider events? (and then maybe it was just coincidence)

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

Korobov Tesla
New Eden Nationalist Movement
#15 - 2016-10-20 19:41:00 UTC
Awesome thanks for all the replies, it has cleared up my concerns for sure. Despite how fast my Navy Vexor kills ****, it's probably not the best ship for contesting a site.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-10-20 22:23:12 UTC
Strange, I could swear top damage gets you the wreck ownership ...

I'm my own NPC alt.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2016-10-20 23:44:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Tipa Riot wrote:
Strange, I could swear top damage gets you the wreck ownership ...


Nope, I'll back this one. Final blow gets it.

Edit: or maybe I'll just test it. That is my understanding though. Really makes me question how **** poor some of the Gila fits I've been contesting against are though.
Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#18 - 2016-10-21 08:24:49 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Strange, I could swear top damage gets you the wreck ownership ...


Nope, I'll back this one. Final blow gets it.
.

I often did the last blow without getting the ownership..
Yurica
Happyness Realization Party
#19 - 2016-10-21 10:37:11 UTC
When someone else is in the site I don't shoot the BC at all, instead I check how much damage the other player does over time, and then with a single well-timed shot get the wreck. It's definitely the last shot.
Ishido Attaka
Purity of the Iron Cold
#20 - 2016-10-21 11:22:15 UTC
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Strange, I could swear top damage gets you the wreck ownership ...


Nope, I'll back this one. Final blow gets it.
.

I often did the last blow without getting the ownership..


Than it was not you, who did the last blow. Simple as that.
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