EVE General Discussion

You know, continuously repeating your assumption that ganking somehow harms the game will not magically make it true.

Fact: if you play a game for over 10 years and still struggle with the basics that probably says something about you.

Its amazing how often this gets spoken by people that have no intent on letting people play the way they want to play.

Lol the forum equivalent of stamping your feet and slamming the door.

Something tells me we haven't tasted the last of those juicy Pajedas tears.

How can you have been playing this game since 2005 and not know that this game is predominantly about "forcing yourself on others"?



There it is, now because one ganks in game one must be a coward IRL. And I think it is safe to conclude nobody here thinks of you as a big scary man.



In other words, you'll moderate it so those who have a view different than yours won't be allowed. Coward.

The answer to that is simple. They haven't.

TL;DR: If you are imprudent you are actually risk seeking, you are looking for risk. If you are a hauler and think the risk vs. reward is out of whack...change the ******* reward you nimrods.



Really? How much ganking is there? As I have brought up before all you have is half the picture. You only see the ganked ships, you do not see the ships not ganked.

This can lead to totally wrong conclusions and was pointed out about 150 years ago by Frederic Bastiat. Maybe you are right, but when CCP actually did some analysis it pointed to exactly the opposite conclusion. That it is a feature not a bug. Again, maybe this is wrong, but you are arguing with incomplete information.



CCP has stated time and again, that HS is just that "high security space" not "safe space" but "safer space". That is so long as I am willing to accept the consequences I can shoot you in HS.

Now groups of players have gotten together and decided, "Yes we are willing to accept such consequences." And on top of it when it is freighter ganking they can also pick and choose which freighters to shoot and...they pick the imprudent players. Freighter gankers are like predators culling the weak and sickly from the herd. Gankers are culling the imprudent from the herd.

To be honest, I wish a version of this could happen IRL. I wish during the financial crisis the imprudent were culled from the herd (allowed to fail) to send a clear message, "If you are imprudent and take on too much risk, and it goes bad you are SOL."

The Bank of England did that back in 1866 with Overend, Gurney and Company. Up until that point the bank of England would bail out imprudent banks, so England went through periodic financial crises. Finally the Bank of England, in a nutshell said, "Nope, we will no longer bailout the imprudent." Overend Gurney got into trouble went to the Bank of England, the Bank of England said, "Sorry, we weren't joking." Overend and Gurney failed, there was a banking panic, a few other banks failed, the directors of Overend and Gurney were tried for fraud, however the judge found them guilty of grave error instead of fraud. But the key point is that the financial system in England was free of financial crises from that point forward until WWI. Rewarding imprudence is NEVER a good thing. All you get is more imprudence.



There are consequences. Unless ganking is going to be subsidized (e.g. James 315's little crusade) for ganking to be sustainable, it has to be the case that ganking turns a profit. But for ganking to turn a profit, then target selection is important. Just to break even you need to take into account the number of catalysts in your fleet and then double it. That is the minimum value you can gank. So if you have 40 dudes in catalysts and catalysts cost 9 million each, then we are talking the cargo value has to be at least 720 million ISK. In that case, over time you'll break even. Now if you want to also hand out some ISK to your pilots as an added incentive than the minimum value goes up from there. For example if you need 720 million for the ship replacement, and you want to give each pilot 4.5 million ISK on top of the ship replacement, you'll need a freighter with 1.08 billion ISK worth of cargo.

What does all this mean? Haulers can have an influence on the level of risk they take. Let me repeat that...

Haulers can have an influence on the level of risk they take.
Haulers can have an influence on the level of risk they take.
Haulers can have an influence on the level of risk they take.

You exercise this influence by....not putting too much value in your freighter.

It is not unlike diversifying an investment portfolio. Why do you diversify an investment portfolio? Well, if the risk of the various investments going down in value are not correlated....well then you reduce your risk of losing everything.

Same thing with hauling. If you put 6 billion in your freighter you are a much more gank-worthy target than if you put 1 billion in your freighter. The gankers who gank for profit will be looking for much more profitable targets. In fact, that 40 man fleet will not want to gank you as they are much more likely to incur a loss.

Yes, yes, this is not a guarantee against ganking...but then I never said it was. Some might do it just for the luls as has been indicated. But you can still reduce that risk too. Use a scout. Do not autopilot. Tank your freighter, especially when empty so they need more guys.

This is why I find people who complain about freighter ganking contemptible. They are literally no better than than those on Wall Street who thought a bailout for their own imprudent and even fraudulent behavior was a good thing.

1. We're not driving anyone away, plebe.
2. No, you didn't and no you won't be.

Wrong.

There's a risk that nothing will drop, there's a risk that the gank will fail, there's a risk that other players will interfere; that's 3 examples of the risks that gankers face straight off the bat.

If you want to see increased risk or more consequences for gankers that go further than those provided by the game engine, then it is up to other players, which includes you, to provide more risk and consequences for them. It's a shame that most of their prey are too damn lazy, or too scared of "the lack of consequence" that Concord provides, to do so

Eve is not a game that holds your hand while you play; on the off-chance that it does hold your hand, it is to steal your finger and wrist jewellery.

I said risk VS reward. Anyone can name millions of trivial risks.

Try again.

Yes it is amusing when they wail...there is no risk. But at the same time are unwilling to incur the consequences of CONCORD.

That in and of itself reveals that their position is entirely bankrupt.

And despite being shown that they can in deed change the risk vs. reward calculus of the gankers....instead of doing it, they simply repeat the claim: There is no risk, there is no risk. there is no risk, as if they were Dorothy and by repeating this while tapping their mouse on the desk will somehow solve the problem.

Lazy, ignorant, and arrogant. A very potent combo that keeps freighter gankers in the loot. Truly ironic.