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Static Wormholes and k162
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Starpoint9
Purging Maelstrom
#1 - 2016-10-19 06:10:17 UTC
If my C3 Wormhole has a static highsec (d845). Is the D845 always going to be inside my W-Space system? Or is it a function of where the WH was first scanned from that determines the Entry and exit?
CowQueen MMXII
#2 - 2016-10-19 06:43:33 UTC
Starpoint9 wrote:
If my C3 Wormhole has a static highsec (d845). Is the D845 always going to be inside my W-Space system? Or is it a function of where the WH was first scanned from that determines the Entry and exit?


It is always inside your system. It will open to the other side once you jumped through or chance based (increasing chance over time) earliest 15h before it normally collapses.

Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#3 - 2016-10-19 06:50:27 UTC
K162 only means that the wormhole was 'spawned' from the other side.

Your wormhole will ALWAYS have a D845. When it collapses, either due to mass limits or simply decaying over time, another D845 will spawn in your system.

However, once a wormhole spawns in a system, the exit point isn't calculated until either some hours (iirc: 3) have passed, OR someone initiates warp to the wormhole from inside the J-space system.

If no-one has scanned down the 'hole from inside the system after that period, Tranquility will figure out where it exits and a Cosmic Signature will spawn in that system for someone to scan down.

So, if you scan it down and warp to it from inside your 'hole, you'll have the D845 identifier on your side. Jump through, and the other side will read K162.

If someone has scanned it down from it's exit point and warps to it, the D845 identifier will appear in the High Sec system and your side will read K162. It's still a D845, with its 5,000,000,000kg mass limit and an individual jump mass limit of 300,000,000kg.

Note: these designations have nothing to do with the Cosmic Signature ID in the Probe Scanner. They can only be seen on the wormhole when you are on-grid with it in space.

Note II: This is only in relation to your Static wormhole. Other 'wandering' wormholes will appear from time to time in your system.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#4 - 2016-10-19 12:36:02 UTC
Is there some secret club aiming to feed misinformation on this sub-forum?
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-10-19 12:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloemkoolsaus
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
If someone has scanned it down from it's exit point and warps to it, the D845 identifier will appear in the High Sec system and your side will read K162.


No.
D845 will always read on the c3-wormhole-system side. In the high-sec it will always read K162.
K162 is always the exit side. It does not matter in what system it was scanned.

Basically, what CowQueen said is correct.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#6 - 2016-10-19 12:54:47 UTC
Except that K162 may not appear at all in some cases, CowQueen said it will always appear and it's not correct.
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-10-19 13:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloemkoolsaus
Duo Roman wrote:
Except that K162 may not appear at all in some cases, CowQueen said it will always appear and it's not correct.

CowQueen is in fact, correct.
You should really make sure you're up to date. This stuff was changed back in Hyperion.

Here is the dev blog: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns

Quote:
After discussion with the community we have decided to make some adjustments to this plan to ensure that enough wormhole connections become visible to keep travel options open.

Although K162 signatures will not appear as soon as a player warps to them (as they do currently), they will have a random chance to appear every several minutes once the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of natural lifetime remaining.


Edit: Maybe i can't read but cowqueen did not say it's guaranteed to spawn. What he said is correct.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#8 - 2016-10-19 14:44:01 UTC
All the info is here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4908046#post4908046
See follow up here too:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4908256#post4908256

So if no one warps to the entrance, K162 never spawns.
Fionna Da'gere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-10-19 15:02:50 UTC
Duo Roman wrote:


So if no one warps to the entrance, K162 never spawns.


Incorrect based on your citations:


CCP Fozzie wrote:

Under this system, the K162 spawning mechanics would be as follows:
K162 wormholes and signatures are spawned in an invisible state when someone initiated warp to the other side of the connection.
K162 signatures become immediately visible when someone jumps through the wormhole connection for the first time.
IF the K162 signature is in an invisible state and the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of lifetime remaining, it will have a chance of becoming visible every few minutes, balanced so that virtually all K162s will appear within a couple hours or less from this point.

This will ensure that if people choose not to warp through their wormhole connections after warping to them, the wormhole systems on the other side will still gain the ability to use that connection eventually.


The K162 will eventually populate on the other side. Pretty much always.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#10 - 2016-10-19 15:17:04 UTC
Fionna Da'gere wrote:

Incorrect based on your citations:


Let me quote Fozzie again then, this time with the highlighted text:

"If you don't warp to a wormhole at all, it will act in the same way that it does now."


If you wonder what is the "as it does now", you can find that in the quote by Bloemkoolsaus, again highlighted for clarity:
"Although K162 signatures will not appear as soon as a player warps to them (as they do currently)".
Fionna Da'gere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-10-19 16:00:35 UTC
I'm sorry; you're still wrong.

Eventually, the K162 side of the hole will spawn even if the static (in this case D845) side is never scanned.

You're quoting Fozzie discussing what happens on the K162 side and how quickly the K162 appears on the sig list with the "same way it does now" quote.

The relevant quote from earlier in the same thread explicitly states that :

Quote:
IF the K162 signature is in an invisible state and the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of lifetime remaining, it will have a chance of becoming visible every few minutes, balanced so that virtually all K162s will appear within a couple hours or less from this point.

This will ensure that if people choose not to warp through their wormhole connections after warping to them, the wormhole systems on the other side will still gain the ability to use that connection eventually.


This is not just as stated, but experiential proof will show this. Go roll a hole and sit on it for 12 hours. Eventually, someone will come through the other side.

The whole point of the thread and the change was to prevent wormholers from rolling and isolating themselves.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-10-19 16:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Fionna Da'gere wrote:
Duo Roman wrote:


So if no one warps to the entrance, K162 never spawns.


Incorrect based on your citations:


CCP Fozzie wrote:

Under this system, the K162 spawning mechanics would be as follows:


K162 wormholes and signatures are spawned in an invisible state when someone initiated warp to the other side of the connection.
K162 signatures become immediately visible when someone jumps through the wormhole connection for the first time.
IF the K162 signature is in an invisible state and the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of lifetime remaining, it will have a chance of becoming visible every few minutes, balanced so that virtually all K162s will appear within a couple hours or less from this point.

This will ensure that if people choose not to warp through their wormhole connections after warping to them, the wormhole systems on the other side will still gain the ability to use that connection eventually.


The K162 will eventually populate on the other side. Pretty much always.



That's NOT what that says. At all. You're ignoring the condition.

What it says is that it will eventually populate on the other side if someone has initiated a warp to it.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Fionna Da'gere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-10-19 16:06:41 UTC
Do you even live in wormholes?

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/

Quote:
After discussion with the community we have decided to make some adjustments to this plan to ensure that enough wormhole connections become visible to keep travel options open.

Although K162 signatures will not appear as soon as a player warps to them (as they do currently), they will have a random chance to appear every several minutes once the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of natural lifetime remaining.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#14 - 2016-10-19 16:11:42 UTC
I'll try one last time:
K162 wormholes and signatures are spawned in an invisible state when someone initiated warp to the other side of the connection..... invisible state when someone initiated warp to the other side...... when someone initiated warp..... initiated warp

IF the K162 signature is in an invisible state and the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of lifetime remaining, it will have a chance of becoming visible every few minutes...... IF invisible state ..... Invisible

This will ensure that if people choose not to warp through their wormhole connections after warping to them, the wormhole systems on the other side will still gain the ability to use that connection eventually...... warp through after warping to them..... after warping to them

I hope this is clear, but be my guest and believe what you want.

Fionna Da'gere wrote:

Go roll a hole and sit on it for 12 hours.


If you do what you suggest you will be surprised.
Fionna Da'gere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-10-19 16:17:56 UTC
Yeah, I understood what you were saying; I just didn't think you were interpreting the quotes correctly.

However, post #240 in that thread says "if you never warp the hole, it never spawns" and that is inline with what you had to say.

Also, if you head to test and go looking for holes, they're hard to find- evidence that since no one ever warps to them, they never spawn.

I'm gonna retract my disagreement.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-10-19 16:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Nvm, guess that's settled then.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#17 - 2016-10-19 16:36:15 UTC
However, most of the time you can't be sure no one has initiated warp to the static. I often initiate warp to the static then leave the system and roll the wandering wormhole from which I came in :)