Player Features and Ideas Discussion

There is no reason to abandon wrecks in an Incursion site because nothing except the MOM drops loot and anyone can salvage any wreck.

The only reason to do it is accidental ignorance or to exploit a server weakness to trigger a DC. This would appear to violate the EULA last time I read it. On top of that it results in pilots potentially pocketing loot from people DCing and dying to incursion rats by way of a server exploit. So the usual fines and bans should apply to them as well.

On the other hand if CCP thinks this is OK is it also OK in null fights? ie Load the grid with lots of wrecks and then abandon them when OPFOR drops supers?

Other way of going about the issue is to disallow fleet abadonment / destruction of wrecks / cans in fleet options, leave permissions to say squad commanders or fleet boss.

A similar issue that we have had, which would covered by a similar fleet option, are fleet trolls who join fleet to shoot MTAC cans and delay fleet. Following all of the guns all of the time is a pain and not always feasible.

But yeah, whereas most incursion communities are public communities we have a massive turnover of pilots who grind isk for ships, for pvp, for industry and whatnot. We cannot track and scan each one for trust.

I'll shorten your post and make it more factual.

I Kayle Saviant am too lazy to police the fleets I run. I refuse to be accountable to myself and the fleet I am FCing and demand that CCP put incursions (THE SAFEST WAY TO GRIND MASSIVE ISK IN EVE) even further on easy mode. The incursion community deserves special consideration in that CCP needs to take care of our OPSEC because I am too lazy to do it myself. It is unfair that the game requires me as FC and leader of a fleet to do anything other than shoot little geometry figures - it is CCPs job to make my fleets safe, secure and successful so I don't have to.

We are simply asking for a mechanic to allow us to police our own fleets.

Are incursions easy isk, yes. In fact is the isk too easy, probably.

However there is a difference from screwing with an incursion group, by ganking them, pre-loading TCRCs, stealing MTACs for example. These are all counteract able if you have the proper skills as an FC. It makes things harder, lowers isk per hour etc. But if you know what your doing the chance of loosing people is a lot less.

But attempting to overwhelm the local grid by abandoning all wrecks, and lets face it we know that stuff happening on a local grid can cause problems. Why do you think they lowered the number of drones ships were allowed on grid (in most instances to 5 max) it was because having too many drones poping out at once would casue issues.

So again what we are asking for is a mechanic to police our on fleets, if we get a notification of who is bluing an entire grid, or we limit it to squad/wing/fleet commanders then it is easier to work out who is causing the problem and they can be banned.

At the moment, there really is no way to work out who is doing it, and even if we can work it out and ban the person, because of skill injectors they can just inject a new toon in 5 minutes and be back.


TLDR:

Is incursion isk to easy - sure why not
Is attempting to overwhelm the local grid with a spike in activity an exploit - I would say yes but you have to ask CCP for info on that one.
Should actions that can affect the whole fleet be restricted to key positions in fleet - even CCP has to agree to that one, if they did not any position could tag and squad warp instead they cannot.

Just figure out who the guy or guys is/are and kick/exclude them. Every group in Eve has to deal with spies and internal threats. What you have is simply an internal threat that you have to weed out. My point is that your issue isn't mechanic based - it's human nature based. No other group is asking for CCP to make it easy to find spies, corp thieves and the like.

What you call an exploit I call emergent game play. It's kind of like when you jump into a low sec gate camp and you get 50 convo requests - players are using the game mechanics (beyond warp disruption) to keep you from getting away.

Nyx "There is no way for us to know who is doing this " - there is - you keep track of which fleets do the wreck thing and who is in them. Someone has said there is a lot of turnover, so that works in your favor to line up the problem with the instigator.

Kayle "A similar issue that we have had, which would covered by a similar fleet option, are fleet trolls who join fleet to shoot MTAC cans and delay fleet. Following all of the guns all of the time is a pain and not always feasible. " - you call other players fleet trolls?? Only because they do not play the game in the same manner as you. If players log in to profit off of incursion runners - that's well within game mechanics AND in line with the original spirit of Eve. It's a pvp game, and if folks are profiting off of you they are not trolls - they just play with different objectives. You need to get better than them, counter them and keep playing - what you don't do is put a begging hand out to CCP to make the game easier for you. You're already playing the WOW in space part of Eve, try not to ruin a borderline brilliant space fantasy game because you are lazy and/or feel entitled to the droll layups other games have fed you.

Bottom line for both of you - make a spread sheet. Put names on it. When things you don't like happen - narrow it down and weed that person out. If you're an FC then you are accountable for your fleet - not CCP. Own it or let someone else do it. This game isn't supposed to be easy.

Gotta say, I don't agree with the carebear insinuations.

HS Incursions are indeed easy and nearly risk-free, however that's a red herring. It doesn't change the fact that it's a server-side exploit. It's not a game mechanic at all, they're literally causing the server to drop people. As that's not a part of the game, and not something you can actively counter, it should be fixed.

I've never been affected by this (heck, I've only done FW once with my corp and it was the most mind numbingly boring experience of all time) so I have no skin in this.

No objections what-so-ever to griefing... so long as they're using GAME mechanics. Even bumping things, which CCP is starting to call an exploit in certain circumstances, I'm okay with cause you can still shoot the bastard. But this... you have no answer. It's like DDOSing CCP's servers when it looks like the major super-cap fleet is going to lose.

You do have an answer - figure out who the bad apples are and ban them from your self proclaimed community.

As for no skin in the game - yes you have skin in the game. The game is getting easier and easier with every one of these changes that get added. It's getting nudged bit by bit toward all the other games that have no consequences where you can shoot NPC in HS instances with no worries for the safety of your assets. Those games that don't last for a decade.

The watch list.
Citadel space magic.
Current petition practices.

The ground is eroding beneath your feet - can't you see that? Look at the log in rates over the past years. Making the game easier and more player friendly isn't making it more popular.

I agree with all the above. As much as I personally am against corp theft and fleet wreck abandonment, it's part of the game and what you are requesting is EXTREMELY carebear, bad for the health of the game.

Do what the others here have suggested. Police your fleets and decrease risk by putting on more tank. Tell your fleet members to leave wrecks alone and if anyone is spotted looting or salvaging wrecks they will be kicked.

Why would you do this. Not only is this against the rules because you're harassing the GMs, it also makes it clear you're trying to "get back" at the person who abandoned your wrecks. Why would you waste multiple GM's time on the exact same issue, this is explicitly against the EULA. One petition per issue please.