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Killmail denial proposed change
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Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#21 - 2012-01-11 06:31:08 UTC
Why don't you fit more stabs to your ship and cowardly warp out leaving your blob to klil stuff about it?

Crying about valid tactics when you are one of the worst exploiters of cheap tactics yourself is rather rich.

Also reported for homophobia.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#22 - 2012-01-11 07:49:15 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Why don't you fit more stabs to your ship and cowardly warp out leaving your blob to klil stuff about it?

Crying about valid tactics when you are one of the worst exploiters of cheap tactics yourself is rather rich.

Also reported for homophobia.



still hurt kid?
Galatica789
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#23 - 2012-01-11 15:07:36 UTC
I hate Caldari since they cant fight a Dramiel without a blob but I do agree that you shouldnt be able to Self Destruct when you have Aggroe
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#24 - 2012-01-11 19:21:41 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Why don't you fit more stabs to your ship and cowardly warp out leaving your blob to klil stuff about it?

Crying about valid tactics when you are one of the worst exploiters of cheap tactics yourself is rather rich.

Also reported for homophobia.



still hurt kid?

No, you never killed me but its just amusing to see you upset about other people doing things to avoid combat.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Amana Tsasa
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-01-11 22:00:55 UTC
Galatica789 wrote:
... but I do agree that you shouldnt be able to Self Destruct when you have Aggroe


I don't see as i could agree to this, as Self Destruct in any and all forms, ever has always been about denial of some possession, structure, or asset to an enemy force that would have a better than likely chance of being able to take it. From the actual usage of a self destruction avenue, this T3 pilot (while doing it for a different reason) used the Self Destruct for exactly what a Self Destruct is meant to be used for, denial of something to an enemy.
Aldous Borrn
League of Gentleman Cartographers
#26 - 2012-01-11 22:31:49 UTC
Amana Tsasa wrote:
Galatica789 wrote:
... but I do agree that you shouldnt be able to Self Destruct when you have Aggroe


I don't see as i could agree to this, as Self Destruct in any and all forms, ever has always been about denial of some possession, structure, or asset to an enemy force that would have a better than likely chance of being able to take it. From the actual usage of a self destruction avenue, this T3 pilot (while doing it for a different reason) used the Self Destruct for exactly what a Self Destruct is meant to be used for, denial of something to an enemy.


QFT

If there was no way to SD in aggro, why would anybody anywhere SD?
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#27 - 2012-01-11 23:08:28 UTC
Aldous Borrn wrote:


QFT

If there was no way to SD in aggro, why would there be a SD?



Fixed since location would become moot.

I wish I had used SD to deny my bear loss when I was learning the ropes of the game, though I suspect if I had the sense to use it, I wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with.

Complaining about someone using SD is like complaining you couldn't warp because you were pointed, or that you know it can be done, you know people will use it, so don't act like someone **** in your bed when it happens.

Note: not knowing the exact process for a KM from a SD ship, I would say that if you clearly where attacking through the duration of the self destruct then sure thats somewhat stupid, but other than that the arguments about SD being "unfair" sound like a child who just had their toy taken away by their mommy.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#28 - 2012-01-15 19:39:06 UTC
funny ccp is not able to reply to my petition for a week ... omg... such a SLAs Big smile
Tionscal Gaterau
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-01-15 23:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tionscal Gaterau
Hidden Snake wrote:
http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/killmail-denial-service-possible-improvement/

read my post and comment please

Lads and gents,

this is gonna be creative one. As we are now facing pretty decent amount of faggots we faced problem of killmail denial “exploit”.
Please no rage about using word exploit. It is probably valid tactics, what sucks is that nobody gets kill mail.
What happened while we were killing the Tengu.
0. SLAPD pilot found he cannot win and his tengu will end in flames
1.he set self destruct
2. jumped out of ship in pod
3. we tried to board the ship – it is not possible because it is set to selfdesruct
4. we poped the ship to make economical damage, but we knew km is lost.

Is there a way to get the kmail?

If not I would propose to change one of the following when u have aggro. Similar change which canceled the sucky logoffski ****.
- disable selfdestruct option if aggro (not veryu happy about it though)
- deliver km of empty ship with last blow even if sd – if it had aggro
Or any other creative change that would disable this ****.

Same is with scooping ships into carriers if it is going down – u cannot scoop agressed ship.

PVP should be about kills and tactics and less about exploiting.


Hidden Snake
” The Busdriver”


This isn't an exploit. I applaud the Tengu pilot for ejecting. You forget that by doing that he avoids losing skills needed to operate a Tengu.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Strategic_cruisers

Quote:
Hint: If you lose your tech 3 ship, you will lose a single level of one (random) racial subsystems skill. For example, you are flying the Amarr Legion ship and your subsystems skills are all at level 3. You are attacked and lose the ship, the system selects one random subsystems skill and brings it down to level 2. Please note that you do not lose skills if you eject from or self destruct a tech 3 ship.


I can't speak for any other vessel, but Tech 3 cruisers have a legitimate excuse to do so and calling them out for it is beating a dead horse.

(This is different from clone SP loss. You lose an actual level, which if you have trained to level 5 is painful to fix (week to month training to fly a ship you could fly a day earlier is just silly.))
Christina Trild
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-01-16 00:24:55 UTC
Amana Tsasa wrote:
Galatica789 wrote:
... but I do agree that you shouldnt be able to Self Destruct when you have Aggroe


I don't see as i could agree to this, as Self Destruct in any and all forms, ever has always been about denial of some possession, structure, or asset to an enemy force that would have a better than likely chance of being able to take it. From the actual usage of a self destruction avenue, this T3 pilot (while doing it for a different reason) used the Self Destruct for exactly what a Self Destruct is meant to be used for, denial of something to an enemy.



this ^
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#31 - 2012-01-16 07:30:05 UTC
To all who cannot read (and SLAPD alts) ....I understand he did it for not loosing skills mostly.

But how the hell I will get my killmail, because CCP is playing dead bug (this is actually first petition they did not even reply to for long time or write a **** on forums - which is kinda strange)?
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#32 - 2012-01-16 10:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Hidden Snake wrote:
To all who cannot read (and SLAPD alts) ....I understand he did it for not loosing skills mostly.

But how the hell I will get my killmail, because CCP is playing dead bug (this is actually first petition they did not even reply to for long time or write a **** on forums - which is kinda strange)?


KM denial is a valid tactic just like anything else. Tonight I was fighting 2x BC and a Heavy Dictor on a a high sec gate in low sec. I I traded shots at all three ships, but the one I pinned down at the end was able to jump into high sec with GCC and commit Concord suicide therefore denying a KM to me.

I of course told him that wasn't a honorable death and he told me, at least I didn't get his KM. So we exchanged GF's and that was end of that. Was a valid tactic that was used to deny a KM and while maybe I didn't like it he managed to 1 up me even though I caused the loss of his ship it was fair play in the sandbox far as I'm concerned.

Sandboxes are dirty for a reason.. Evil

btw far as t3 pilots ejecting, well I didn't train every one of them for nothing.. I'm waiting for a freebie. Lol
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#33 - 2012-01-16 10:02:08 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
To all who cannot read (and SLAPD alts) ....I understand he did it for not loosing skills mostly.

But how the hell I will get my killmail, because CCP is playing dead bug (this is actually first petition they did not even reply to for long time or write a **** on forums - which is kinda strange)?


KM denial is a valid tactic just like anything else. Tonight I was fighting 2x BC and a Heavy Dictor on a a high sec gate in low sec. I I traded shots at all three ships, but the one I pinned down at the end was able to jump into high sec with GCC and commit Concord suicide therefore denying a KM to me.

I of course told him that wasn't a honorable death and he told me they least I didn't get his KM. So we exchanged GF's and that was end of that. Was a valid tactic that was used to deny a KM and while maybe I didn't like it he managed to 1 up me even though I caused the loss of his ship.

Sandboxes are dirty for a reason.. Evil



well got it .... but we destroyed the ship ... which si diferent case
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#34 - 2012-01-16 10:07:09 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:



well got it .... but we destroyed the ship ... which si diferent case


Perhaps he managed to get a session change before you blew up the ship? Maybe he docked or left system which might cause a KM to not be generated.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#35 - 2012-01-16 10:08:50 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:



well got it .... but we destroyed the ship ... which si diferent case


Perhaps he managed to get a session change before you blew up the ship? Maybe he docked or left system which might cause a KM to not be generated.



well we will see what I will get from CCP
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#36 - 2012-01-18 10:19:57 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:



well got it .... but we destroyed the ship ... which si diferent case


Perhaps he managed to get a session change before you blew up the ship? Maybe he docked or left system which might cause a KM to not be generated.



well we will see what I will get from CCP



CCP is still silent ... i guess they are busy with CSM ;)
shal ri
Konigreich Preuben
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres.
#37 - 2012-01-18 17:06:20 UTC
Feligast wrote:
Not to add, just confirming shooting an empty ship will still generate a KM against the last person that sat in it.

And I'm not entirely convinced that self-destruct continues on an empty ship, I do believe that gets cancelled as well. You cannot, however, board a ship that's locked by another ship.

It sounds like the OP is basically ********.



sd timer still counts down after pod ejected from said ship. happened to me with a mach that i tried to jump into but failed to do so cuz my fail corp mates didnt unlock the ****** and we lost both the kill mail and a free mach
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-01-19 07:12:58 UTC
Game mechanic that is working as intended, this is what you will hear back from CCP.

Move along folks, nothing to see here.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#39 - 2012-01-19 08:43:58 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Game mechanic that is working as intended, this is what you will hear back from CCP.

Move along folks, nothing to see here.


well answer was more complex ... and it looks like a bug ... and they cannot fix it now for me ... anyway CCP please close this thread.
Commander Disarray
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-01-19 20:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Disarray
So let me get this right. If I SD my ship and eject, no one will be able to board it because of the SD timer? Or the fact that it's still target locked (in which case, can you board it if everyone unlocks it and it's still set to SD?)?