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Clone States UI Changes

First post
Author
Abulurd Boniface
CORE BUSINESS
#81 - 2016-10-13 17:33:48 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:


I think at some level, due to UI clutter and gameplay and immersion, the training wheels need to come off. I don't really like the whole yellow round stuff thing altogether. We already have a dot. if you can't glance at the colored dot to make sure your safety is on, then you should risk being shot by the owner.

Remember when safety dot wasn't even a thing? Those were good days. People were self-reliant.

I think CCP is bending to the spoonfeed/hold-my-hand subgenre of gamers and that's actually awful for gameplay.


I wholeheartedly agree. The UI should be clear and concise. The point is for the user to take responsibility. We're asking them to pilot a very expensive ship through space, doing all kinds of dangerous and extralegal things.

The pilot is responsible for their actions.

They should have the freedom to make their own mistakes and learn why it was a mistake in the first place. It's EVE Online for a reason. Sometimes you have to point out the arcana of what it means to fly a ship, sometimes you have to allow newbie to take a daring stab at a Concord Captain orbiting a star gate all by himself. It's a great teaching moment.

Don't make it into My Friendly Pony land. Nothing gets better by turning the place into a safe space full of marshmallows and soft cushions.

Make those changes to the UI that help us do what needs to be done in an intuitive and visually pleasing manner. Don't make it a colouring book for the risk averse.

Noomi West
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2016-10-13 18:05:49 UTC
While I can appreciate the intent to improve UI the execution itself is a bit disappointing. The new design is definitely less intuitive than what we have currently.

- Huge animated character portraits. Why? It's a spaceship game. Unnecessary performance hit / resource loading as well. Wish we could keep Incarna locked inside CQ. Or at least add the option to disable these 3D portraits.
- Vertical texts are awful. It's just bad design when you need to tilt your head to read.
- The yellow boxes and dots for untrained skills / omega skills are not intuitive at all. Like the ship info page > required skills tab is 10x less readable than what we have now and the yellow boxes are way too strong visually. They are so 'aggressive' compared to everything else.
Turelus
Utassi Security
Second State
#83 - 2016-10-13 20:19:42 UTC
Spent a bit of time poking around and am happier than I was previously now I know much of this is only because we're locked in Alpha mode.

When an account is made Omega do the gold edges to some items vanish, do gold sklll boxes etc turn white? I feel it's important that subscribers not have information reminding them the game is F2P one of the perks of the sub should be a fully nu-intrusive UI.

Little Issues
  • 3D Character renders have horrible anti-aliasing.
  • Born could be changed to graduated/licensed/certificated, this has always been an RP/Lore gripe of mine as characters are not born on that date.
  • Pilot License tab could do with being at the end (far right) as it's generally the last used tab.
  • Change the "show market info" on ships listed under skins to show the skins not the ships.
  • Pop-up boxes with skill descriptions blocks the skill above, meaning you have to move down/off before you can move up to hover over the one above unless you move it just slightly. Maybe extend the height a bit so it gives more space above.


Turelus CEO Utassi Security

Keyran Tyler
Bionesis Technologies
#84 - 2016-10-13 21:29:22 UTC
Quoting myself from information portal for Character Sheet window feedback.

Keyran Tyler wrote:
#SaveTheCharacterSheet

The front bar look weird with that portrait cutted. You forgot to display information about bounty and background somewhere.

Policy for button below is too smal.

Skills category button vertically is very annoying and don't allow to show them fully. It would be better to have them horizontally on the left side.

"Copy" option on the "current skills" is not something than you can forget without consequence! And it's missing at the moment. Evil

Too much popup. You can't move your cursor on that window without opening a popup. It's very upset.

Training queue should be in a separated window.
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#85 - 2016-10-13 21:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: The Economist
Poked around on sisi.

No aspect of this feels like an improvement. It's just plain horrible or unnecessary in every regard; and frankly whoever came up with the layout and way it displays skill categories and levels, the permanently displayed training queue and the assumption that we read with our heads tilted 90 degrees needs to go back to get slapped in the groin and sent back to school. You need a way of displaying clone state and available skills, i get it. This is not the way to do it. (oh and give us our old char portraits back. we made them for a reason, we kept them as they currently are for a reason......just stop it.)

Proceed directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200; start again or you really might as well label it beta and abandon it like the new map.
Cirian Enderas
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#86 - 2016-10-13 22:18:22 UTC
As others have said already, I too think this is an unnecessary update. But if there is going to be an update anyway, please consider the following points:

  • Usability in the new ui draft is actually worse than the current one, with many regularly used functions needing additional steps to uncover. (Implants, Jump Clones, Combat Log)
  • Illogical placement and imbalance of content in the top categories, ie. History has skill training history (should be under skill tab imo). Also interactions tab has a lot of clutter.
  • grr vertical text
  • i have spent many hours minutes to perfect my character portrait, the 3d render is horrible "all lights on, expressionless mug shot" also anti-aliasing doesn't seem to be functioning
  • holy pop up galore batman! overall functionality is taking a nosedive with every item/skill/fluff you dont have access to produces a popup and you have to flick your mouse to close it and actually see the info on the skill/item/fluff you were scrolling towards.
  • Quote:
    having a double meaning is the worst thing a UI can have
    yellow is for suspect/safety settings, and bananas.



  • RainReaper
    Bras-Tek Industries
    Nefatari Union
    #87 - 2016-10-14 00:24:13 UTC
    ok so like i need my omega state back right this moment, cause i see some new exiting ship skins on the test server,,, the barges...
    they...they ahve little lights moving aroudn them! and the mining command ships do to! it looks so sexy and amazing!
    RainReaper
    Bras-Tek Industries
    Nefatari Union
    #88 - 2016-10-14 00:25:50 UTC
    RainReaper wrote:
    ok so like i need my omega state back right this moment, cause i see some new exiting ship skins on the test server,,, the barges...
    they...they ahve little lights moving aroudn them! and the mining command ships do to! it looks so sexy and amazing!


    hoyl heck the bowhead to!
    TigerXtrm
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #89 - 2016-10-14 10:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: TigerXtrm
    Poked around in SISI some more. I'll wait until the end of the day to see the changes to the skills and such. But I'd like to request two things.

    I don't personally like the large (aliased) live avatar at the top of the window. It looks pretty bad with the jagged edges and quite honestly I like my self made picture better. Luckily there's an easy way to collapse it so no major problem there. Unfortunately collapsing the live avatar also collapses some important UI information that can't be found anywhere else.


    • Account status (Alpha, Omega), this is pretty important to be able to see at a glance. If the header is collapsed I can't.
    • Medical clone location
    • Security status
    • Name and date of birth
    • Race, corporation and alliance


    With the header collapsed there is more than enough room to display this information above the character sheet tabs. At the very least display the Alpha/Omega icon left of the username and the medical clone location aligned to the right maybe? But if you could find a way to fit all the information above the tabs when the header is collapsed that would be even better.

    Ideally I'd like to suggest that instead of showing or collapsing the header, you can switch between the ugly live avatar and a large version of your character portrait.

    I'm too lazy to make a mock-up right now. Maybe later.

    My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

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    Duke Garland
    Niflheimr Inc.
    #90 - 2016-10-14 10:36:54 UTC
    One little 'collectibles' post:
    CCP Claymore wrote:
    Winter Archipelago wrote:
    I'm still not fond of the vertical labels. I would really, really much prefer it to be horizontal, probably akin to something like this (please, don't judge it based on my Photoshop I skills; I'm an author, not an artist). Not only is it easier to read, it also provides more vertical space for the information that really matters (namely, the skills in each group, and your queued skills).

    [...]

    Both of these have been reviewed due to player feedback and should be altered with the next sisi update.

    I like this guy's photoshop skills better than my MS Paint skills, now let's see whose design CCP favors, I hope it's more like this one than mine. xD
    Shame I won't see it until probably early Sunday morning EvE time. :(
    Soleil Fournier wrote:
    Instead of a gold border around omega items, I'd like an omega symbol in the top right hand corner of the item instead - like the T2 / t3 symbol in the top left of tech 2 & 3 items. This would identify Omega items but does it in a more subtle and non-OCD inducing way.

    An easy +1 to that idea, though in that case it might be useful to enlarge that marker a wee bit compared to current T2/3 etc markers (perhaps twice the size if that's even possible without also changing the size of the other marks?).


    Something else I'd like to know is why you've chosen to make my animated face look "outside" the screen, since the sheet window per default opens on the left end of the UI (has anyone ever move that to the right, even just for testing?) it'd probably look more "involved" if my toon would face the 'center' of the screen. As in look to the right when the character sheet is located more to the left end of the neocom and look to the left should the character sheet be located to the right end. It sounds confusing but I hope you get the intention...
    As an additional matter on that animated portrait, the character name and "born at" are a little badly visible on the skyboX for Amarr characters. Maybe you could drag around that snippet of the skyboX to get some more contrast into those two lines?
    Turelus wrote:

  • Born could be changed to graduated/licensed/certificated, this has always been an RP/Lore gripe of mine as characters are not born on that date.
  • Not really the proper forum to discuss this (at least it's somewhat UI related), but as far as I got the lore (I'm no RPer so I might well be off) your physical body dies for your consciousness to be transferred into your first capsuleer clone. Hence from a certain point of view you are indeed (re-)born on that date. You only "graduate", so to say, once you leave your starter rookie corp for your first player corp as you can never return to your respective rookie corp (= school). As I've said I'm no roleplayer nor do I know if you're one but that's my viewpoint on the matter. Should you want to discuss this further feel free to send me a PM/EvE-Mail in order to not derail the feedback thread any further...
    TL;DR displaying "born at" is perfectly fine IMHO


    regards
    Duke Garland
    Soldarius
    Dreddit
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #91 - 2016-10-14 13:38:26 UTC
    Soleil Fournier wrote:
    The vertical text is bad because of the way you orient it. We have to turn our heads in order to read it. Change it to:

    A
    r
    m
    o
    r

    So much easier to read vertically.


    This is worth a try. Could even put the icon at the top with the letters in descending order. Reading from bottom up is just not natural.

    http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

    The Economist
    Logically Consistent
    #92 - 2016-10-14 14:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: The Economist
    Am I being blind or is it not possible to minimize the skill queue section? ....and if not, why not? Takes up loads of space, is cluttered as hell with the new format and just plain isn't something i want or have ever wanted permanently displayed.

    Also.....what's the logic behind the order of skill categories? They don't appear to be ordered alphabetically, or by number of skills or by sp either vertically or horizontally......what exactly was wrong with the old simple alphabetical order that required changing?
    damys
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #93 - 2016-10-14 19:30:39 UTC
    What was the worst for me was trying to read the skills cathegories sideways. Trying to make sense of all those cathegories when new to EVE Online is hard enough. Having to tilt your head sideways to see what is writen is a bit painfull. They could be angled 45 degrees or so and it would make it a LOT easier. I am not a new player and trying to find the right cathegory was a bit rough even though I knew exactly what I was looking for.

    Identifying the untrained skills was very easy though once in the right place. The new layout for individual skills was great. The colors are not that great though. CCP has always had great design and great graphics, I'm sure you can find better esthetics.

    Although, when checking for required skills in the "show info" of a ship it was easier to see the missing skills when they were red. The missing skills need to stand out more. If you are opening the gates to new players everything needs to be clear.

    The biggest obstacle for new players is how complicated this game can be when you first start it. When I first started I played for a week and quit because I was lost. A good friend told me to give it a 2nd chance and he explained on TeamSpeak everything I had troubles with and it got me hooked.

    If you want players to enjoy the game, make sure they understand easily what they are seeing. New players wanting to buy into Omega state should do it because they want more of EVE Online, not because you have put the option to pay for it everywhere.

    I have a friend that was on the trial a couple years back and he wanted to go the industrial way. His first mission was a transport mission and he needed an industrial ship to complete it (big packaged to be delivered). But the skills to fly industrial ships was locked on trial accounts so he quit and never came back. I see that you haven't blocked this on alpha clones. Thumbs up for that!! Make sure all new players can try everything they want to see what their play style is. I want all my friends to come play EVE, but I can see a lot of them getting discuraged by the complexity of the UI (especially if it's confusing). DO NOT MAKE THE GAME SIMPLER!!! This game is great and needs to stay as complex as it is, it just needs to be simpler to understand so that more people can see how beautiful it is.

    Holy crap! My A.D.D. kicked in hard there...

    Conclusion : Vertical text is bad and UI needs to be intuitive and soothing.
    Legion40k
    Hard Knocks Inc.
    Hard Knocks Citizens
    #94 - 2016-10-14 21:08:19 UTC
    I'm really sorry but this new character sheet just isn't providing basic information we need in order to make informed choices about what to train.


    We're missing:-
    - Current total SP invested in a selected skill
    - What rank the skill is

    -- screenshot from Sisi
    -- compared to EveMon EveMon

    In fact I'm clicking around trying to figure out how much SP I have in a skill and it just won't tell me?! Glad to know I need a 3rd party tool to know how much I can extract from stuff.


    Other stuff that needs highlighting:-

    - Categories have an Attribute pop-up which is plain wrong for some skills in their category e.g. Adv. Weapon Upgrades is not Int/Mem!! sigh

    I haven't read the myriad of responses so this might all be duplicate info, but please address/ditch the new sheet for the love of god it takes up more screen space and shows less information x_x
    Chan'aar
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #95 - 2016-10-15 13:51:56 UTC
    Legion40k wrote:
    I'm really sorry but this new character sheet just isn't providing basic information we need in order to make informed choices about what to train.


    We're missing:-
    - Current total SP invested in a selected skill
    - What rank the skill is

    -- screenshot from Sisi
    -- compared to EveMon EveMon

    In fact I'm clicking around trying to figure out how much SP I have in a skill and it just won't tell me?! Glad to know I need a 3rd party tool to know how much I can extract from stuff.


    Other stuff that needs highlighting:-

    - Categories have an Attribute pop-up which is plain wrong for some skills in their category e.g. Adv. Weapon Upgrades is not Int/Mem!! sigh

    I haven't read the myriad of responses so this might all be duplicate info, but please address/ditch the new sheet for the love of god it takes up more screen space and shows less information x_x


    Pretty much this.

    p.s How have you managed to use more screen real estate to provide less information?

    p.p.s Skill groups are not in alphabetical order? in fact I can't work out how they are ordered, it does not seem to make any sense.

    Spiritcrow Ebon
    Whispering Way
    #96 - 2016-10-15 19:37:05 UTC
    What needs to happen is that when I hide the animated avatar at the top of the character sheet, the stats that are displayed there should then be displayed on the same row as my characters name. The following stats being: Account Status, security status, race/corporation/alliance, name and date of birth, and clone location.

    I should NOT have to unhide the animated avatar just to display those stats. Alternatively, you could put all that information in a different tab or create a new tab for it.

    I made a crappy photoshop of what I mean:
    http://i.imgur.com/NXir3hR.jpg
    MechaLynx
    #97 - 2016-10-15 23:37:10 UTC
    Thanks for making the bars horizontal, huge improvement.

    I see you've made the bars fill based on ranks trained out of the total possible. That's ok, it gives an overall sense of completion for the category, but we still need to be able to easy see how much SP we have in each category and each skill (so we can easily give a number to others and also gauge how much of our total is allocated to each - not all ranks are equal and those numbers are critical for injection, extraction and SP/min or remap calculations) or you could have a series of icons (or a dropdown) at the top that lets us sort the groups alphabetically/by total SP/by total Ranks. I think that would satisfy everyone - and you can leave the bars showing rank completion that way, for the effect. But we do need the numbers please and easily visible.

    I agree with others that the 3d portrait at the top is not very nice. We can still see our portraits if we want to, sure, and thankfully that's how we see other player's character's info (please don't change that). But although it doesn't really hurt, since it's just aesthetics, an option would be nice, even if the 3d is the default. Put it in graphics settings, along with the asteroid environments and drone models and stuff. We should be able to choose between the 3d portrait and the regular picture a lot of us care a lot about :P - I'll also second Spitcrow's suggestion to allow hiding the top pane while still being able to view home/sec status/corp and all that in a compact way - right now, hiding the top pane leaves only the name there, which is a waste of so much space at the top. If there is need of this for the purpose of hiding the info on screenshots, put it in the settings, it would be a niche use.

    I'd also recommend the nebula background to change depending on the region our home station belongs to, rather than be fixed.

    The tooltip behavior is still inconsistent. I think you adjusted the threshold for when it stays or leaves but it's just not good enough, sorry. Here's an example:

    https://youtu.be/q5Hw4zQbXz0

    Can you tell when I'm trying to mouse up to the next skill or when I'm actually trying to hit the "Add to Queue" button? If you can't tell 100% of the time, there's your problem. In fact, for most of that, I'm just casually trying to get to the button but instead I hover over the skill above it. If I try to mouse up too slow or too fast, the opposite of what I want happens. Not to mention, it blocks visibility of skills above it. This is why we insist these tooltips need to be on the side of a _list_. An alternative is to leave it this way and have a hover button or just get rid of the thing entirely and just leave double-click and dragging to be the ways to get a skill into the queue.

    You could also just give us a compact, side-by-side list view like the previous one, which worked just fine. In fact, if we had this UI until now and you changed it to the side-by-side one TQ has, we'd interpret that as an improvement. So again, not very good, unless you at least provide us with a layout similar to what we already have. It may not be perfect, but it's easier to use than this.

    The changes to the requirements tree for skills/modules/ships were good btw, props for that. We get to see individual training times immediately. Still, the old colors for skills that aren't trained enough or injected were better - could use a subtle red or yellow background for them there, or perhaps some brighter icons as a compromise. Other than that, it's improved.

    Again, we don't need Omega symbols and yellow omega frames for everything, but I guess we've hammered this one in enough already.
    Bienator II
    madmen of the skies
    #98 - 2016-10-16 08:23:22 UTC
    big improvement from the first version i tested (testing as omega). The alpha markers in the inventory are toned down which is nice and the requirements tab is also cleaner.

    Horizontal text in the char sheet is nice although i wouldn't see that anyway since i will have the two upper sections collapsed. Please add the sec status somewhere so that you can see it even if the topmost section is collapsed.

    From the positioning of the UI elements i would probably prefer if the bar with the start training button, training speed indicator etc, would be at the very bottom of the window, below the skill queue graph so that the button would be in the bottom right corner - but that is a matter of taste. Some might confuse it with an ok button which wouldn't be so good.

    how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

    Minchurra
    Perkone
    #99 - 2016-10-16 12:02:41 UTC
    Some things I noticed:


    • The training time multiplier is no longer displayed on the character sheet and is only in the skills show info window. This will probably confuse new players because they won't know why one skill takes twice as long to train as another.

    • You can't see the number of skill points you have trained in a skill. This used to be displayed beneath the skill in the skills browser, the only metrics you can see now is the number of skill points you have in a category and your total skill points.

    • If you minimize the 3d view you cannot see the information displayed in that section. I think a text summary of information like death clone location, alpha/omega status, corp/alliance would be appreciated.

    • If you dock the character sheet with another window the 3d view is forced closed which makes a text summary even more important.


    Other than those things it's very nice.
    Amarisen Gream
    Pleasant Peninsula Productions
    Cauldron of Ecstasy
    #100 - 2016-10-16 12:39:38 UTC
    The skill window pop-ups are annoying. They ether get in the way or they disappear before you can click them.

    The pop ups should be only for info - the add to queue should be a button next to the skill itself. Yes this will more bulk to the UI. but as it stands, what I have tested. I resorted to r-click to add skills to the queue as the pop-ups failed 90% of the time to stay up long enough to click their buttons.

    "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

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