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Dev Blog: EULA Changes Coming With EVE Online: Ascension

First post First post
Author
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Retribution.
#401 - 2016-10-13 09:55:24 UTC
The issue chaps is down to gambling sites being caught RMTing. Pure and simple. I am not sure CCP had a huge issue (could be wrong) with the actual sites, because everything in it under the current EULA they stlll effectively own as everything was done with in game items and currency. The ISK still effectively belongs to CCP. But then selling it for real money goes over the line. Im surprised it took CCP so long.

So to stop this ever happening CCP have no choice whether you agree or not to have a blanket ban on any such type of activity. Therefore it stops the issue happening full stop, no grey areas no buts or maybes just No. Which in reality was the right thing to do.

and hey IWI and Casino where fixed anyways Big smile you were equally being scammed as well. Plus all this CCP will kill advertising is complete BS. The adverts were for gambling not attracting more players to eve. and if it did attract players to eve, in order to just gamble well thats wrong too.

just let it go, if you read apples zillion page aggrement or other T&Cs properley you would probably never sign up or buy anything.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit

Sweetiepie Sugartits
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#402 - 2016-10-13 10:01:08 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Making example by punishing the innocent? You think that's good management?


I think they saw humongous, festering rat king slogging through their sandbox & rightly decided that rather than spend precious resources trying to disentangle the tails, simply chose to throw a grenade on the whole mess. Which is fine, IMO. It sets an example, makes things clear, & creates content, really, when you think about it.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#403 - 2016-10-13 10:11:15 UTC
Time and time again CCP is taking away content from the (meta) game.
Killing off mini professions, having to walk their path in the game,
and interfering by extending their jurisdiction outside the game.

Question to CCP:

What is your stance on Citadel owners using Charities as a pvp shield, when only a slimmer of it's revenue is going to charity ?

"Originally, the suggestion was to have 25% of the profits go to goodwill projects, but this was met with an overwhelmingly negative response.
UPDATE: Lenny clarified his position on distribution: It is an either/or, with Lenny getting 0% and Chribba getting 25%, or, Lenny getting 15% and Chribba getting 10%. This depends on the availability of Chribba for distributing the 15%. Either way, the 15% will be distributed to various goodwill projects within Eve"

sources: https://www.themittani.com/news/new-eden-trade-network
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/a-reminder-regarding-scamming-charity-events/


Regards, a Freelancer

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#404 - 2016-10-13 10:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenahina
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:
Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.

Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in.


Maybe you should go back and actually read what happened. They aren't being punished because of changes to the rules. They're being punished for breaking rules that were already in place.

Stupidity isn't cool either. You should try and avoid it in the future.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#405 - 2016-10-13 10:12:33 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI.


You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right?



I don't see why that bothers you, RMT is CCP's problem, not ours. EVE is a game where that encourages all kind of scamming and stealing except in one specific case - when CCP is the side that is getting scammed. If they don't care when we get scammed, why should we care when the same thing happens to them?


Are you for real with this stuff? You can't be for real. Nobody is this pants on head.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#406 - 2016-10-13 10:14:25 UTC
Toobo wrote:


You are the clueless one here. NOT ALL bankers are banned, and that means they have not RMTed. But yet hey had their wallet turned to 0 ISK. If the ISK they earned from banking with IWI is considered as RMT fund, then I can understand the banking profits off IWI could be in consideration for confiscation. But beside banking, bankers put in their personal ISK, which they earned through legit in game means, to bank with. This ISK is not earned from IWI, it's personal fund that bankers used to bank with, much like many playeres gambled with ISK they made through non EULA breaking in game means.

What happened is that, these bankers all had their ISK turned into zero. Also, bankers' alts, such as ratting toon or whatever, if they had wallet transaction history with the banking toon, got their wallet ISK turned to zero.

If they have RMTed, sure their accounts should be banned. But their accounts are alive, and even toons that were not involved with IWI got their ISK confiscated, ISK they made through ratting or incursion or WH or whatever.

I applied to be a banker two months ago, but I didn't get accepted. But according to how CCP has done it now, if I joined IWI as a banker back then, then ALL my ISK and assets I accumulated through nearly a decade of hame playing eve before IWI existed would have been confiscated, for having mere association with IWI for two months and never having done RMT myself.

There are people who became banker a few days ago, and they had all their ISK removed.

CCP is not even considering such cases, and automatically close support tickets and petitions from these guys without even lookiing into their case.

Now tell me, you seriously think all of the above is good job done from CCP?


Yes, since this is the way they have always handled these cases. Anything else would have smacked of favoritism and that would have been a real problem, not this drama llama stuff you seem to be focused on.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#407 - 2016-10-13 10:34:09 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
EDIT: Not to mention, prohibition has literally never worked, people will still gamble.

Alright, here's the deal.
Of all the US cities, only Vegas allows gambling, right? Why? Why dont you lift the restriction and allow it throughout the country? It gives the jobs, it gives the taxes. It even diminishes the crime, because no more illegal casinos, right? Wrong!

Despite all the sweet things that casinos provide, they bring way too many problems.
Gambling should've never been allowed in EVE. Mistakes were made, but now when it's gone I can only cheer CCP for this decision. And so should you.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#408 - 2016-10-13 11:05:47 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
I don't care what you do to RMTers (assuming you didn't pulled RMT excuse out of your sleeve just to have a reason to retroactively ban gamblers before EULA changes become effective), but you also hurt a lot of innocent players who had their ISK held by such sites and that's not cool.

Well, gambling is called idiot tax for a reason.
Ruddger
Vande-lay Industries
Muffins of Mayhem
#409 - 2016-10-13 11:20:23 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
EDIT: Not to mention, prohibition has literally never worked, people will still gamble.

Alright, here's the deal.
Of all the US cities, only Vegas allows gambling, right? Why? Why dont you lift the restriction and allow it throughout the country? It gives the jobs, it gives the taxes. It even diminishes the crime, because no more illegal casinos, right? Wrong!

Despite all the sweet things that casinos provide, they bring way too many problems.
Gambling should've never been allowed in EVE. Mistakes were made, but now when it's gone I can only cheer CCP for this decision. And so should you.




Lol what?

44 states have lotteries, 30 states have casinos. So no, in no reality is vegas the only place that allows gambling.
Sweetiepie Sugartits
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#410 - 2016-10-13 11:48:09 UTC
States that allow gambling have things like "gambling commissions" & such, which allow the state to oversee gambling operations & make sure they are doing business in ways that don't f*** the state.
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#411 - 2016-10-13 11:57:21 UTC
Alright, my bad then. Better do fact checking next time.
In my country though casinos are prohibited (except for a few places that no-one uses anyway). And I'm absolutely happy about that. They were allowed like 10 years ago and I am an eye-witness of all the bull**** associated with them.
Senjiu Kanuba
Risk Breakers
Pen Is Out
#412 - 2016-10-13 12:03:16 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:
Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.

Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in.


Maybe you should go back and actually read what happened. They aren't being punished because of changes to the rules. They're being punished for breaking rules that were already in place.

Stupidity isn't cool either. You should try and avoid it in the future.




Is that what happened? To me it looks more like they're changing the rules and stopping gambling that way. It's not about the RMT-people, it's about the other parties that also did gambling, like eve-bet for example. They didn't break any rules that were already in place (at least not to my knowledge and apparently also not to CCP's knowledge). But they will break the rules if they continue doing what they do and THAT is why they're shut down.

Yes, IWI was punished for RMT and that's okay. But I don't see why all the other 'legal' gambling services are also shut down.

On a related but different topic: Will CCP host the alliance tournament stream on all weekends again next year, like they did in the past?
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#413 - 2016-10-13 12:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
I have removed a few personal attack posts. Expect further action on this thread.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.

Urziel99
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#414 - 2016-10-13 12:40:56 UTC
Senjiu Kanuba wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:
Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.

Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in.


Maybe you should go back and actually read what happened. They aren't being punished because of changes to the rules. They're being punished for breaking rules that were already in place.

Stupidity isn't cool either. You should try and avoid it in the future.




Is that what happened? To me it looks more like they're changing the rules and stopping gambling that way. It's not about the RMT-people, it's about the other parties that also did gambling, like eve-bet for example. They didn't break any rules that were already in place (at least not to my knowledge and apparently also not to CCP's knowledge). But they will break the rules if they continue doing what they do and THAT is why they're shut down.

Yes, IWI was punished for RMT and that's okay. But I don't see why all the other 'legal' gambling services are also shut down.

On a related but different topic: Will CCP host the alliance tournament stream on all weekends again next year, like they did in the past?



1. Eve-bet isn't shut down. The have been ordered to case operations by Nov. 8th.
2. If you want to know why they are are doing it. Possible answers include the Valve lawsuits. The UK Gaming Commission's recent White paper. That they got sick and tired of dealing with RMT through the casino websites. Or they just felt like changing the rules to their game, which is their right. I'm sure they have already anticipated losing customers over it. I'm sure they don't really care.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#415 - 2016-10-13 12:42:20 UTC
Toobo wrote:

I get that CCP must have evidence of some involved RMT-ing, but I have never RMT'ed in my whole eve career, CCP can look through any records of mine and YOU will KNOW that I never RMTed. But yet, I lost my ISK from your shutdown of IWI.

There must be many others. SOME bankers/players who made lots of ISK may have RMTed. Ban them. I don't like RMT tards anyway. Ban them for good. I'm happy with that.

But why should ALL players, and non offending staffs of the site should lose the ISK?

Players supported someone with their ISK.
This someone did RMT using ISK he got from players in question.

Someone gets banned for RMT.
Are players free from accusing in RMT being supporters of someone in question?

I think it's easy: you (indirectly) supported RMT -> you got punished for it.

And please do not play card 'i was unaware of RMT'. People creating external resource and paying real money for maintenance of some system to be used only ingame? LoL....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#416 - 2016-10-13 12:46:06 UTC
Senjiu Kanuba wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:
Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.

Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in.


Maybe you should go back and actually read what happened. They aren't being punished because of changes to the rules. They're being punished for breaking rules that were already in place.

Stupidity isn't cool either. You should try and avoid it in the future.




Is that what happened? To me it looks more like they're changing the rules and stopping gambling that way. It's not about the RMT-people, it's about the other parties that also did gambling, like eve-bet for example. They didn't break any rules that were already in place (at least not to my knowledge and apparently also not to CCP's knowledge). But they will break the rules if they continue doing what they do and THAT is why they're shut down.



Yes. Nothing you've said is incorrect, and I wonder why you feel like there's something wrong. Eve bet has not be forced to close and no one involved has (to my knowledge) had action taken against their game accounts by CCP. Because they followed the damned rules. They obeyed the rules as they were written at the time. Now that the rules are changing, they are winding down operations in order to remain in compliance with the updated rules.

I fail to see the problem.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#417 - 2016-10-13 13:03:31 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:

Of all the US cities, only Vegas allows gambling, right?


Not by a looonnggg shot. Only 2 states (Utah and Hawaii) outlawall gambling, all the other states allow various forms of gambling, Vegas is just the most well known. The largest Casino in the U.S.isn't in Vegas, it's in Thackerville, Oklahoma.
Aldran Gentlharp
Unidentified Murderers and Young Hack Offenders
#418 - 2016-10-13 13:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldran Gentlharp
March rabbit wrote:

Players supported someone with their ISK.
This someone did RMT using ISK he got from players in question.

Someone gets banned for RMT.
Are players free from accusing in RMT being supporters of someone in question?

I think it's easy: you (indirectly) supported RMT -> you got punished for it.

And please do not play card 'i was unaware of RMT'. People creating external resource and paying real money for maintenance of some system to be used only ingame? LoL....


Other question. will you realy ban everyone who give that person some isk for whatever reason? Perhaps he was some ISK Doubling Scammer before he went to RM Trading. If CCP Follow your opinion then they also have to ban everyone who fell for this scam.

PS: Just for fun. I hope they Ban Jita Local because the contracts there are really Gambling
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#419 - 2016-10-13 14:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
CCP, please print out your ISK and try to gamble with it in Vegas offering it as real value assets in every casino out there... Lol
Judaa K'Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#420 - 2016-10-13 14:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Judaa K'Marr
Aelavaine wrote:
Game == Gambling - The whole game is gambling, with every journey through New Eden.
Do you come back with more Ore? Will that gank give you a shiny killmail? Will that mission drop enough loot? And so on. And of course you can increase your chances by fitting your ship better. Or pay a third party 10M ISK for example, so they gank you less likely. But that's all gambling too and involves third parties, more or less.

Well maybe it's because of some laws in the UK and US. I don't live there so I don't care. What if the Iran prohibites games with spaceships next year? Will you seize all ships ingame and ban all who used them?

This issue deserves to be handled with more care and sensitivity.


Well the situation at the moment is that you don't own anything in the game, therefore nothing can be considered gambling or real loss, and that allows most the gameplay in eve. But if the law starts getting involved and regulating virtual gambling then the rule that "CCP owns everything, you own nothing" starts being cloudy and maybe redefined by higher authorities than CCP. If CCP lose ability to control their own rules then all others thing come into question - stealing, scamming, basic blowing up of ships, etc. Game Gambling is simply a huge liability and going to cause problems and endless headache down the road for anyone that touches it.