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Dev Blog: EULA Changes Coming With EVE Online: Ascension

First post First post
Author
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#381 - 2016-10-13 06:06:53 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI.


You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#382 - 2016-10-13 06:09:22 UTC
We've come a long way from CCP Navigator endorsing Somer Blink as totally honest and above-board, haven't we?

James Zealot wrote:
All I want to know is if I can run lotteries in game for my alliance or Corp or w/e IN GAME? It does say third party. To much IWI bs through these pages for me to read through to get to if anyone has seen an answer to my question.


I think by the letter of the EULA you are fine, but more practically speaking, I think you are fine as long as the sums involved don't become astronomical. It's when you have untold trillions running through your fingers that you're in a position to do massive RMT.

Conversely, given that a supposedly entirely in-game lottery could just as easily be taking money under the table to pick the winners, I think you should avoid having untold trillions running through your lottery whether or not you think it fits the letter of the EULA. If the response to IWI being banned is something just as tainted but "entirely in-game", CCP will jump on that too.

Khan Wrenth wrote:

I have two friends that I'm having some success in convincing to play this game as Alphas.
Friend 1 lives about 2,000 miles away from me and won't be an issue. However, friend 2 is my roommate. Now, he has a gaming laptop so it's a "second PC", but it would be connected to the internet through the same router my PC is.
So, looking at the EULA, I'm thinking that I'll have to tell my roommate not to bother. I'll play with my friend across the country, but I happen to really like playing EvE and I'm not at all interested in getting my account banned because my roommate plays with me with an Alpha clone.


I don't think you should worry. You might find it's technically impossible (but I doubt it), but unless you turn out to have forty roommates all of whom log on exactly and only when you do, I doubt any alarm bells will be ringing. Entire university colleges are NATted out one IP address; CCP cannot possibly determine on the basis of source IP alone that you are one human not two.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#383 - 2016-10-13 06:11:19 UTC
Nice update, this gambling tomfoolery was stupid in the first place. As long as you don't block scamming or suicide ganking in game to make the environment "more palatable" to new alpha clone players.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Luscius Uta
#384 - 2016-10-13 06:38:57 UTC
I don't care what you do to RMTers (assuming you didn't pulled RMT excuse out of your sleeve just to have a reason to retroactively ban gamblers before EULA changes become effective), but you also hurt a lot of innocent players who had their ISK held by such sites and that's not cool.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#385 - 2016-10-13 06:50:46 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI.


You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right?


Dude I said multiple times I agree with banning RMTers. So obviously any banker or IWI staff or players that were involved in RMT are not in my 'thank you list'. Get a grip. There were loads of people who played the game legit.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Slaingeal
Relentless Destruction
Immediate Destruction
#386 - 2016-10-13 07:16:35 UTC
"F" gambling sites and everything related. If you wanna gamble, just undock with your wager. Let's make Eve great again!
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#387 - 2016-10-13 07:25:09 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI.


You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right?


Dude I said multiple times I agree with banning RMTers. So obviously any banker or IWI staff or players that were involved in RMT are not in my 'thank you list'. Get a grip. There were loads of people who played the game legit.


Then WTF are you on about. Nobody else has been banned. You are talking complete gibberish.

IWI people--banned for RMT.
Eve Casino--Banned for multiple EULA violations.

All other gambling sites: 26 Days to Unwind their positions.

Seriously, you sound like a someone who is totally clueless.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Baracuda
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#388 - 2016-10-13 07:39:48 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
:smug:


Better don't be too smug. You are still the biggest RMT entity in game and hopefully banned soon too.
Sasha Nemtsov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2016-10-13 07:43:45 UTC
James Zealot wrote:
All I want to know is if I can run lotteries in game for my alliance or Corp or w/e IN GAME? It does say third party. To much IWI bs through these pages for me to read through to get to if anyone has seen an answer to my question.


From memory, it says 3rd party sites. Someone please correct me if I have it wrong.
Araneatrox
Perkone
Caldari State
#390 - 2016-10-13 08:01:21 UTC
So, I currently pay for a TS Server and some hosting via ISK though services hosted on the forums. Under the new EULA this would seem to be banned.

Post EULA is that still acceptable or not?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5663372#post5663372
Sweetiepie Sugartits
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#391 - 2016-10-13 08:03:00 UTC
What is random? What is skill? How do you define any word at all, really? All I really know for sure is that all the hairsplitting & semanticist pontification in the whole world won't get you sleazy dinguses your accounts or isk back. :)
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#392 - 2016-10-13 08:04:15 UTC
Araneatrox wrote:
So, I currently pay for a TS Server and some hosting via ISK though services hosted on the forums. Under the new EULA this would seem to be banned.

Post EULA is that still acceptable or not?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5663372#post5663372


Roll

Is there some sort of game of chance?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Sweetiepie Sugartits
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#393 - 2016-10-13 08:08:11 UTC
Araneatrox wrote:
So, I currently pay for a TS Server and some hosting via ISK though services hosted on the forums. Under the new EULA this would seem to be banned.

Post EULA is that still acceptable or not?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5663372#post5663372


Sections 10 and 11 of the EOL TOS specifically exempt voice comms service providers.
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#394 - 2016-10-13 08:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis
Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.

Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#395 - 2016-10-13 08:17:08 UTC
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:
Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.

Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in.


Don't be a ****. RMT has always been against the EULA they knew what they were doing and they knew the risks.

They get to keep their real life money so STFU about their loss of pretend money.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Luscius Uta
#396 - 2016-10-13 08:37:17 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI.


You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right?



I don't see why that bothers you, RMT is CCP's problem, not ours. EVE is a game where that encourages all kind of scamming and stealing except in one specific case - when CCP is the side that is getting scammed. If they don't care when we get scammed, why should we care when the same thing happens to them?

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#397 - 2016-10-13 08:44:15 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI.


You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right?


Dude I said multiple times I agree with banning RMTers. So obviously any banker or IWI staff or players that were involved in RMT are not in my 'thank you list'. Get a grip. There were loads of people who played the game legit.


Then WTF are you on about. Nobody else has been banned. You are talking complete gibberish.

IWI people--banned for RMT.
Eve Casino--Banned for multiple EULA violations.

All other gambling sites: 26 Days to Unwind their positions.

Seriously, you sound like a someone who is totally clueless.


You are the clueless one here. NOT ALL bankers are banned, and that means they have not RMTed. But yet hey had their wallet turned to 0 ISK. If the ISK they earned from banking with IWI is considered as RMT fund, then I can understand the banking profits off IWI could be in consideration for confiscation. But beside banking, bankers put in their personal ISK, which they earned through legit in game means, to bank with. This ISK is not earned from IWI, it's personal fund that bankers used to bank with, much like many playeres gambled with ISK they made through non EULA breaking in game means.

What happened is that, these bankers all had their ISK turned into zero. Also, bankers' alts, such as ratting toon or whatever, if they had wallet transaction history with the banking toon, got their wallet ISK turned to zero.

If they have RMTed, sure their accounts should be banned. But their accounts are alive, and even toons that were not involved with IWI got their ISK confiscated, ISK they made through ratting or incursion or WH or whatever.

I applied to be a banker two months ago, but I didn't get accepted. But according to how CCP has done it now, if I joined IWI as a banker back then, then ALL my ISK and assets I accumulated through nearly a decade of hame playing eve before IWI existed would have been confiscated, for having mere association with IWI for two months and never having done RMT myself.

There are people who became banker a few days ago, and they had all their ISK removed.

CCP is not even considering such cases, and automatically close support tickets and petitions from these guys without even lookiing into their case.

Now tell me, you seriously think all of the above is good job done from CCP?

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Sweetiepie Sugartits
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#398 - 2016-10-13 08:51:33 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI.


You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right?


Dude I said multiple times I agree with banning RMTers. So obviously any banker or IWI staff or players that were involved in RMT are not in my 'thank you list'. Get a grip. There were loads of people who played the game legit.


Then WTF are you on about. Nobody else has been banned. You are talking complete gibberish.

IWI people--banned for RMT.
Eve Casino--Banned for multiple EULA violations.

All other gambling sites: 26 Days to Unwind their positions.

Seriously, you sound like a someone who is totally clueless.


You are the clueless one here. NOT ALL bankers are banned, and that means they have not RMTed. But yet hey had their wallet turned to 0 ISK. If the ISK they earned from banking with IWI is considered as RMT fund, then I can understand the banking profits off IWI could be in consideration for confiscation. But beside banking, bankers put in their personal ISK, which they earned through legit in game means, to bank with. This ISK is not earned from IWI, it's personal fund that bankers used to bank with, much like many playeres gambled with ISK they made through non EULA breaking in game means.

What happened is that, these bankers all had their ISK turned into zero. Also, bankers' alts, such as ratting toon or whatever, if they had wallet transaction history with the banking toon, got their wallet ISK turned to zero.

If they have RMTed, sure their accounts should be banned. But their accounts are alive, and even toons that were not involved with IWI got their ISK confiscated, ISK they made through ratting or incursion or WH or whatever.

I applied to be a banker two months ago, but I didn't get accepted. But according to how CCP has done it now, if I joined IWI as a banker back then, then ALL my ISK and assets I accumulated through nearly a decade of hame playing eve before IWI existed would have been confiscated, for having mere association with IWI for two months and never having done RMT myself.

There are people who became banker a few days ago, and they had all their ISK removed.

CCP is not even considering such cases, and automatically close support tickets and petitions from these guys without even lookiing into their case.

Now tell me, you seriously think all of the above is good job done from CCP?


It's called making an example, you tedious crybaby.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#399 - 2016-10-13 09:14:34 UTC
Making example by punishing the innocent? You think that's good management?

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Aelavaine
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#400 - 2016-10-13 09:25:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aelavaine
tl;dr

Since I don't speak lawyerish that point regarding gambling leaves me with more questions than answers.

I also have no sympathy with RMTs, so do with them what you want. But to boot everyone who enriched the game since its start, 3rd parties you even supported by yourself, without further explanation is just a catastrophy.
There are honest sites and operators out there who deserve better (EOH, BIG for example) and at least an explanation why they are now the bad boys.

Game == Gambling - The whole game is gambling, with every journey through New Eden.
Do you come back with more Ore? Will that gank give you a shiny killmail? Will that mission drop enough loot? And so on. And of course you can increase your chances by fitting your ship better. Or pay a third party 10M ISK for example, so they gank you less likely. But that's all gambling too and involves third parties, more or less.

Well maybe it's because of some laws in the UK and US. I don't live there so I don't care. What if the Iran prohibites games with spaceships next year? Will you seize all ships ingame and ban all who used them?

This issue deserves to be handled with more care and sensitivity.

You want more than spinning ships? Support Avatar Gameplay!