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Way to keep betting tools in-game while curbing unauthorized gambling
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Jadek Kin
Incorruptibles
#1 - 2016-10-13 03:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jadek Kin
Edit: People will misrepresent themselves to the TOS so it's pointless to assume this suggestion curbs underage gambling or participating in gambling which is against the laws of various states/nations. Instead it provides a stronger legal barrier for CCP.

CCP adds a command prompt feature to private chat channels (e.g. /drawcard or /picknumber or /flipcoin).

The use of this feature can be locked depending on the user provided age of the account and the municipality laws of the location the user is signing into the Eve client from.

The option to let users bet with enhanced chat channel commands allows CCP to keep the mechanics of gambling in game. However, I'd never see this becoming a thing as it's an extra headache for the CCP legal team.

Regardless, what are your thoughts?

@JadekMenaheim
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-10-13 04:05:59 UTC
Jadek Kin wrote:
The use of this feature can be locked depending on the user provided age of the account and the municipality laws of the location the user is signing into the Eve client from.


Do you really expect the underage users to be honest about their age ?
Jadek Kin
Incorruptibles
#3 - 2016-10-13 04:12:37 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
The use of this feature can be locked depending on the user provided age of the account and the municipality laws of the location the user is signing into the Eve client from.


Do you really expect the underage users to be honest about their age ?

Not really, it doesn't stop people from lying about their age to access pr0n sites. If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.

@JadekMenaheim
Iain Cariaba
#4 - 2016-10-13 04:44:14 UTC
Jadek Kin wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
The use of this feature can be locked depending on the user provided age of the account and the municipality laws of the location the user is signing into the Eve client from.


Do you really expect the underage users to be honest about their age ?

Not really, it doesn't stop people from lying about their age to access pr0n sites. If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.

The burden may fall upon the parental guardian, but let's face it, most parents these days are idiots who'd much rather blame someone else for their bad parenting. CCP would save themselves a great deal of headache by simply enforcing a, "no gambling with in game currency, period," policy.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-10-13 07:45:25 UTC
Jadek Kin wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
The use of this feature can be locked depending on the user provided age of the account and the municipality laws of the location the user is signing into the Eve client from.


Do you really expect the underage users to be honest about their age ?

Not really, it doesn't stop people from lying about their age to access pr0n sites. If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.


Who do the various government agencies that enforce gambling laws say the burden falls upon ?

Agencies that aren't happy about underage gambling. The kind of agencies that told Valve to take whatever action is necessary to stop any 3rd party gambling sites involving Steam or face “additional civil or criminal action”.


In the UK two people have been charged with running/promoting illegal gambling. No mention of underage gambling. Meaning an age check that worked wouldn't be enough to satisfy UK law, and you're suggesting an age check that won't work.


At a minimum, I see CCP blocking all gambling until all the fallout from the CS:GO skin gambling has finished. Which might include law changes. Then you might be able to convince CCP to have a look at the cost of running legal gambling and the benefits such gambling would bring to Eve.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#6 - 2016-10-13 14:51:30 UTC
Perhaps CCP could focus their efforts on space ships, immortal space heroics and stuff like that. Personally I could give a ratsassamatass how difficult it is to make isk via Eve gambling. Do the right thing, go gank a fat freighter for isk. Work the land, it's good for the soul.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-10-15 01:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Long story short, the reason for the gambling shift is CCP is seeing the US and a few other nations focusing the evil eye on online gambling, CCP is now distancing themselves as far way as they can. They won't put this in game. 3rd party is where you will find this and 3rd will have ot get creative as it seems CCP already started bans.


Underage gambling is an upfront legal reason they have for it. The powers that be always have these visible reasons that make sense. Candy coats the pill. Tin foil hat 103 says real reason is this is money they can't touch. Why do casino's get their licenses, someone wins big there is the nice cashier handing you tax form x. Won the lottery....at some point you may give up some winnings to taxes.

Tin foil hat says they can't give this reason so they find other legal ones. In the case of online gambling they can't even use reasons like supporting criminal organizations. It's fat gaming nerds.....not the mob captain or triad thug running the show.


Now the interesting thing to watch for is as this steam rolls out is how will eve-nt broadcasts go since at least for AT it was clear eve bet heavily sponsored them. Will that change I wonder. Its CCP's right to share the streams. Or...not share.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2016-10-15 02:23:08 UTC
Hay, how about we keep internet spaceships about spaceships and gambling about gambling yeah?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jagd Wilde
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2016-10-20 23:33:53 UTC
Jadek Kin wrote:
If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.


this needs said again Big smile


Every alt I own has a red safety, this has brought my friends much laughter.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#10 - 2016-10-21 01:53:12 UTC
Jagd Wilde wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.


this needs said again Big smile

eve is pegi 12

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2016-10-21 01:57:43 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Jagd Wilde wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.


this needs said again Big smile

eve is pegi 12

and ccp would like to keep it that way

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-10-21 02:08:43 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
The use of this feature can be locked depending on the user provided age of the account and the municipality laws of the location the user is signing into the Eve client from.


Do you really expect the underage users to be honest about their age ?

Not really, it doesn't stop people from lying about their age to access pr0n sites. If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.


Who do the various government agencies that enforce gambling laws say the burden falls upon ?

Agencies that aren't happy about underage gambling. The kind of agencies that told Valve to take whatever action is necessary to stop any 3rd party gambling sites involving Steam or face “additional civil or criminal action”.


In the UK two people have been charged with running/promoting illegal gambling. No mention of underage gambling. Meaning an age check that worked wouldn't be enough to satisfy UK law, and you're suggesting an age check that won't work.


At a minimum, I see CCP blocking all gambling until all the fallout from the CS:GO skin gambling has finished. Which might include law changes. Then you might be able to convince CCP to have a look at the cost of running legal gambling and the benefits such gambling would bring to Eve.



CS:GO skin gambling is just that, too. I know plenty of underage people that've spent 300+ dollars for the CHANCE of getting a video game skin. The way it works is you pump more money into the game via buying keys, then you unlock containers that randomly drop in the game and you have a chance of a skin which has some real world value like 5 cents to 1000 dollars.

They're still violating the spirit of the law because of the way it encourages gambling and losing real world money in a game of chance.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-10-21 02:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Somehow a double post.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Iain Cariaba
#14 - 2016-10-21 03:33:58 UTC
Jagd Wilde wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.


this needs said again Big smile

Except it doesn't work that way in the real world.

If an underage person misrepresents themselves to an establishment that sells alcohol with a fake ID, it is not the guardian who get penalized for selling to the minor. The burden falls upon the establishment, and ultimately the employee who made the sale.

If an underage person misrepresents themselves to a store that sells adult toys with a fake ID, it is not the guardian who get penalized for selling to the minor. The burden falls upon the store, and ultimately the employee who made the sale.

If an underage person misrepresents themselves to a strip club with a fake ID, it is not the guardian who get penalized for allowing the minor in. The burden falls upon the club, and ultimately the bouncer who let them in.

I've worked in all three industries. While I've never worked in a casino, I'm fairly sure the ones in cities where the local law enforcement isn't on the casino owner's payroll have the same general thing going on.

In the wonderful world of the interweb, businesses use credit cards as proof of age. They do this because you have to be a legal adult pretty much anywhere in the world to have a credit card. A minor who uses their guardian's credit cards is essentially using them as fake ID to misrepresent themselves. There is zero burden ever actually falling on the guardian. At the very most, they're stuck with a credit card bill, but sometimes they can even dispute the charges and get their money back.
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-10-21 04:22:05 UTC
I fully support CCP in the removal of gambling from Eve by any means necessary.There is no reasons for this game to be used as a cash laundring machine ,by at best shaddy people most likely criminals depending on their state laws.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#16 - 2016-10-21 13:59:25 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Hay, how about we keep internet spaceships about spaceships and gambling about gambling yeah?


I could not have said it any better so I will not even try.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#17 - 2016-10-21 14:08:31 UTC
Nya Kittenheart wrote:
I fully support CCP in the removal of gambling from Eve by any means necessary.There is no reasons for this game to be used as a cash laundring machine ,by at best shaddy people most likely criminals depending on their state laws.



Most of the sights were completely clean both in terms of the TOS and local laws a few bad apples ruined it is all. Sucks too they were always a good place to get community events funded. I do however agree 100%that it is the best course of action legally for ccp

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2016-10-23 04:15:12 UTC
Jadek Kin wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Jadek Kin wrote:
The use of this feature can be locked depending on the user provided age of the account and the municipality laws of the location the user is signing into the Eve client from.


Do you really expect the underage users to be honest about their age ?

Not really, it doesn't stop people from lying about their age to access pr0n sites. If underage people are misrepresenting themselves to the TOS the burden falls on the parental guardian.


Oh to be so young and naive. Lol

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#19 - 2016-10-23 04:39:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Teckos Pech wrote:

Oh to be so young and naive. Lol


Does have its good points, miss those days. While jaded has me deal with life better...I do miss the days of wide eyed optimism. Was happier then as I recall. Jaded outlook just reinforced by it being right 90% of the time lol.

At least in the US, the ligation happy country, at some point and in some way....papers are filed against companies. The company corrupted my sweet little boy or girl. Its never the possibility that mommy an daddy's little angel is not so angelic to start off with. Usually its well I never did that as the hundred of stupids things they did are skipped over. Some parents tend to have selective memories. They remember lawyers phone numbers real good though.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#20 - 2016-10-23 05:16:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Nya Kittenheart wrote:
I fully support CCP in the removal of gambling from Eve by any means necessary.There is no reasons for this game to be used as a cash laundring machine ,by at best shaddy people most likely criminals depending on their state laws.



Most of the sights were completely clean both in terms of the TOS and local laws a few bad apples ruined it is all. Sucks too they were always a good place to get community events funded. I do however agree 100%that it is the best course of action legally for ccp

"We have to play to the 1% that are such ****wits that they ruin it for the rest of us. We have to move as slow as our 'slowest person' to keep society ****ing moving.

I take drugs like a ****ing champion. We should all be allowed to take ****ing drugs, but we can't, can we? Because 'Sarah' took drugs and stabbed her ****ing kids!
Ah! Thanks 'Sarah!' You ****ed it up for everyone!

Everyone should be allowed to drive their car as fast as they can do it! But we can't because 'Jonathan' got drunk and ran over a family. Thanks 'Jonathan!!' Now I have to drive at 30 you ****ing idiot!"

- Jim Jefferies


Hyperbole, I know. But it is relevant.

How did you Veterans start?