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Why are Alpha clone engineering skills capped at 4?

First post
Author
Cato Conroy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-10-10 16:59:50 UTC
On the clone states devblog, it said that Weapon Upgrades will be capped at IV, but you will be able to train Advanced Weapon Upgrades to I. How will this be possible when Weapon Upgrades V is a prerequisite?

Not only that, but engineering skills are such a pain that you should be able to train them while not paying for the game.
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#2 - 2016-10-10 17:11:24 UTC
Weapon Upgrades IV

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2016-10-11 02:32:10 UTC
Cato Conroy wrote:
On the clone states devblog, it said that Weapon Upgrades will be capped at IV, but you will be able to train Advanced Weapon Upgrades to I. How will this be possible when Weapon Upgrades V is a prerequisite?


That hasn't been true since May. Only WU 4 required for AWU now.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#4 - 2016-10-11 08:19:25 UTC
Cato Conroy wrote:
Not only that, but engineering skills are such a pain that you should be able to train them while not paying for the game.

I doubt you will get much love for that position here.

Alpha clones aren't meant to be max characters. Just enough to get an appetite for the game and there is plenty that can be done without max engineering skills.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#5 - 2016-10-11 08:31:01 UTC
Cato Conroy wrote:
Not only that, but engineering skills are such a pain that you should be able to train them while not paying for the game.


titan and all capital skills are a bit of a pain too, we should be able to train them without paying too

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Memphis Baas
#6 - 2016-10-11 11:43:46 UTC
Training from 80m to 300m skillpoints is such a pain, they should let us train without having to pay for the game.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#7 - 2016-10-11 12:08:47 UTC
Cato Conroy wrote:
Not only that, but engineering skills are such a pain that you should be able to train them while not paying for the game.


which is exactly why Alpha clones shouldn't be able to train them. If allowed, this would be a surefire case of Malcanis' Law in action.

If this was possible, on Alpha Clone Release Day, I would create a half dozen (or more) Alpha Accounts and set them off to train the core Navigation and Engineering skills along with some basic Frigate and Gas huffing skills.

While they chip away at Mount Core Skills, they can sit in a Venture running in the background, earning me ISK.

In ~3-4 months, when I decide I need a new cloaky hunter character because the current one is burned so badly that everyone docks up the second I enter system, I strip all the excess brain goo from my current hunter, upgrade one of the Alpha accounts to Omega, squirt in said brain goo and off I go again.

The possibilities for senior players to absolutely rort the hell out of that kind of system is, frankly, kinda frightening.

I, for one, welcome the Alpha clone state and I think the restrictions on the Alpha accounts strikes a reasonable balance between letting people have an *extended trial* and allowing veteran players to abuse said system.

More than any single mechanic change, ship skin, micro-transaction, or new ship types, EVE desperately needs more people to undock and go out to *interact* with each other. The proposed Alpha Clone state looks rather promising from where I sit.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#8 - 2016-10-11 12:51:08 UTC
Cato Conroy wrote:
On the clone states devblog, it said that Weapon Upgrades will be capped at IV, but you will be able to train Advanced Weapon Upgrades to I. How will this be possible when Weapon Upgrades V is a prerequisite?

As others have said, the prereq was dropped, along with several other skills' prereqs, a few months ago. EVEMon (even the latest version, 3.0.2) still hasn't updated those prereqs despite it being close to six months since the change. No clue if other skill trainers have updated the prereqs yet.
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2016-10-11 13:34:23 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Cato Conroy wrote:
Not only that, but engineering skills are such a pain that you should be able to train them while not paying for the game.


which is exactly why Alpha clones shouldn't be able to train them. If allowed, this would be a surefire case of Malcanis' Law in action.

If this was possible, on Alpha Clone Release Day, I would create a half dozen (or more) Alpha Accounts and set them off to train the core Navigation and Engineering skills along with some basic Frigate and Gas huffing skills.

While they chip away at Mount Core Skills, they can sit in a Venture running in the background, earning me ISK.

In ~3-4 months, when I decide I need a new cloaky hunter character because the current one is burned so badly that everyone docks up the second I enter system, I strip all the excess brain goo from my current hunter, upgrade one of the Alpha accounts to Omega, squirt in said brain goo and off I go again.

The possibilities for senior players to absolutely rort the hell out of that kind of system is, frankly, kinda frightening.

I, for one, welcome the Alpha clone state and I think the restrictions on the Alpha accounts strikes a reasonable balance between letting people have an *extended trial* and allowing veteran players to abuse said system.

More than any single mechanic change, ship skin, micro-transaction, or new ship types, EVE desperately needs more people to undock and go out to *interact* with each other. The proposed Alpha Clone state looks rather promising from where I sit.


I would point out that in your scenerio, CCP makes more money because of you. You would need to buy extractors which someone would have to buy them from the store.

As far as abusing the system, you might check the most recent dev blog on the clones. They basically said simultanious logins would not be possible.

Also, you know it is possible to basically abuse the trial periods now right? Nothing has changed.
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#10 - 2016-10-11 13:50:54 UTC
Quote:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

A post has been removed for violating the above rule.

ISD Fractal

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#11 - 2016-10-11 15:56:22 UTC
Scotsman Howard wrote:
I would point out that in your scenerio, CCP makes more money because of you. You would need to buy extractors which someone would have to buy them from the store.

As far as abusing the system, you might check the most recent dev blog on the clones. They basically said simultanious logins would not be possible.

Also, you know it is possible to basically abuse the trial periods now right? Nothing has changed.


Yes, the trial period can be abused, but nowhere near to the extent that Alpha Clones *could* be exploited IF they could train those core engineering and navigation skills to V.

There's the change.

Could I max out those core skills on a trial? No I can't, there simply isn't the time required.

Yes, sure I would need extractors and yes, these would have to be bought by *someone* for actual $$$. However, I would need far fewer of them if my Alpha Clone had, for example, all the pre-reqs trained for a Tengu. Said character would also be far more viable with the Engineering and Navigation tabs maxxed out than one without said skills.

Again, these are FREE accounts with no time limits on their training. There needs to be some point at which CCP encourages people to actually sub that Alpha and turn Omega.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#12 - 2016-10-11 19:42:21 UTC
You get whát you pay for.

Remove standings and insurance.

Tek Nite
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-10-11 20:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tek Nite
Memphis Baas wrote:
Training from 80m to 300m skillpoints is such a pain, they should let us train without having to pay for the game.


That's a joke right?

Everyone complains that you have to have 50 - 100mi SP to be a good pilot or to be able to do anything. That's complete bullshit.

If you sit down, make a plan, stay true to it, and train you can easily have great multi racial PVP capabilities at 10mil - 15mil SP and that is being generous.

If you really wanted to you could train STRAIGHT into a Fully T2/T3 Frigate or Dessie of a single race by just 4-6mil SP having decent support skills, and able to handle your own. Again this is being generous. EVE is easily 90/10 (maybe 80/20) for Pilot Skill% vs Skill Points%.

Go Youtube some videos on new character PVP. There are some skill pilots who make brand new chars and in just 15 for some chars and 30 days for other chars are out there pewing with the best.

With just 30 days of training they are able to go out there and get goof fun kills. It's al about pilot skills and knowing how to train specific skills in a specific way to get the fullest capability out of your ship for the lowest cost of SP.

And on another note you can only spec but some much. If you have 40mi SP and have only trained for one race you pretty much have most things maxed subcap. I have a 30mil SP Alt that has ALL Racial Frigates to level 5, ALL racial Destroyers to level 5, ALL T2 frigate hull types to level 5 (Inty, AF, EAF, etc.) and All Dessie Hull types to level 5. Hics lvl 5, All Tactical destroyers, Command destroyer, etc. And max gunnery for frig/dessies. This means all supports to 5 and all racial turrets to 5 with specs to 4 some to 5, (AC, BS, PL). Navigation sucks. But I have the minimum in other skill groups like a few lvl 5 skills in each. Anything that needs to be lvl 5 with a low skill rank. Example. Mecanics. Mech lvl 5, Repair Systems lvl 5, Hull Upgrades lvl 5.

Don't whine. Make a plan, get it moving. Either that or get better at EVE. Worst case if you truly are no good at eve and think Skillpoints make you better go buy them with injectors.

Regards,
Tek Nite
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#14 - 2016-10-11 21:10:58 UTC
Scotsman Howard wrote:

I would point out that in your scenerio, CCP makes more money because of you. You would need to buy extractors which someone would have to buy them from the store.


I don't buy this "Us [players] Vs Them [CCP]" mentality. CCP is a business. They provide a product for which they are financially compensated. As an entertainment product...a luxury...the value of that product is in the hands of the buyer. You decide what playing the game is worth to you and choose to pay it or not.

But it's not a competition between the players and the developers. Both are necessary in order for Tranquility to exist. We get entertainment and they get dollars. We pool those resources to create the game together. In order to keep the game going players need to pay and developers need to create.

If you constantly approach the game as a competition between you and the developers to get .005 more utils out of them with every change, you'll have an frustrated and irritable pilot on your account.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero