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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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What to do in a small group (4 peeps)
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Ol' Jaime
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-10-10 02:31:21 UTC
Some friends and I have recently started playing EVE Online, and we're looking for some activities that we can do together to start making some real ISK.
So far we have tried,
1. Faction Warfare (~60-120m/hr)
2. Group Exploration (some good payouts)
3. Gas Harvesting (meh so far)
We're looking for both active (such as exploration) and passive (such as mining) activities that we can do as a group, because sometimes we need to bang out a software project or university assignments.
It seems like everything we've seen so far takes a huge amount of skillpoints, such as,
1. RR Wormhole Sites
2. RR Missions
3. Group Ganking (covert ops)
Any suggestions would be awesome!
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#2 - 2016-10-10 03:17:21 UTC
Well, let's start out with the assumption that everything takes huge amounts of skill points.

Generally speaking, any activity can be done at low skill points, the isk payouts are lower than with high skill points. This is true. However, also generally speaking, your needs should be compatible with your income and capabilities. "Should be" meaning naturally not hypothetically.

At low skills, you should be flying frigates. The income you generate from frigates should be enough to pay for your frigate loses, and enough to save up for cruisers. Four players flying frigates should have more than enough income to finance their frigate fleet. As your skills improve, both player and character, then you should be able to generate the income you need to finance larger ship losses.

Generally speaking again, PvE in EvE is Work, not fun. It exists to generate income to finance "fun" and every single pve activity becomes drudgework once you have done it the x1000th time. So coming back to the "activities to generate real isk" question, it sounds like you are approaching the problem from the wrong perspective.

Remember that this is NQ&A, so we are approaching this problem from a "for new players" perspective. And for new players, you should be happy with 60-120m isk/hr. That's basically one hour of work, go buy a bunch of frigates, and kill stuff for several days. So you will only need to work for an hour or so once or twice a week. Don't chase max isk. If you aren't flying a titan or mothership, then max isk isn't necessary. But it is fun if you are a trader.

The main point I am trying to make, is never lose sight of the reason you're making the isk in the first place, and keep your needs in line with your income. Don't sweat that you aren't making as much as a high skill character flying expensive ships. Because they NEED those ships and skill points to make enough to pay for their losses.

So don't chase the ISK, chase the fun. There are a few other ways to make isk, but whether they are fun or not for your group is what you should concentrate on.

Now to your list. I think you should drop Gas Harvesting entirely if pvp is on the board at all with your characters. Mining skills and shooting skills are not compatible, and mining takes a lot of skills to generate good income. The opportunity cost is just too high. Passive (group) income is out too, because passive means afk, and any group of afk spaceships is a target for gankers. There are some solo passive income streams available, PI and Trade being two examples.


My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Cato Conroy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-10-10 03:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cato Conroy
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Well, let's start out with the assumption that everything takes huge amounts of skill points.

Generally speaking, any activity can be done at low skill points, the isk payouts are lower than with high skill points. This is true. However, also generally speaking, your needs should be compatible with your income and capabilities. "Should be" meaning naturally not hypothetically.

At low skills, you should be flying frigates. The income you generate from frigates should be enough to pay for your frigate loses, and enough to save up for cruisers. Four players flying frigates should have more than enough income to finance their frigate fleet. As your skills improve, both player and character, then you should be able to generate the income you need to finance larger ship losses.

Generally speaking again, PvE in EvE is Work, not fun. It exists to generate income to finance "fun" and every single pve activity becomes drudgework once you have done it the x1000th time. So coming back to the "activities to generate real isk" question, it sounds like you are approaching the problem from the wrong perspective.

Remember that this is NQ&A, so we are approaching this problem from a "for new players" perspective. And for new players, you should be happy with 60-120m isk/hr. That's basically one hour of work, go buy a bunch of frigates, and kill stuff for several days. So you will only need to work for an hour or so once or twice a week. Don't chase max isk. If you aren't flying a titan or mothership, then max isk isn't necessary. But it is fun if you are a trader.

The main point I am trying to make, is never lose sight of the reason you're making the isk in the first place, and keep your needs in line with your income. Don't sweat that you aren't making as much as a high skill character flying expensive ships. Because they NEED those ships and skill points to make enough to pay for their losses.

So don't chase the ISK, chase the fun. There are a few other ways to make isk, but whether they are fun or not for your group is what you should concentrate on.

Now to your list. I think you should drop Gas Harvesting entirely if pvp is on the board at all with your characters. Mining skills and shooting skills are not compatible, and mining takes a lot of skills to generate good income. The opportunity cost is just too high. Passive (group) income is out too, because passive means afk, and any group of afk spaceships is a target for gankers. There are some solo passive income streams available, PI and Trade being two examples.





What are some fun activites to do?

It seems like whenever we do Faction Warfare, it just leads to us either having to fight ships massively out of our reach, or we get blobbed by an even bigger blob. Although you get some good fights, usually only 1/20 fights are half decent in that warzone. We don't really have 4 hours to find a few decent fights, sadly. We are really busy IRL.

Does the fun/hr require skillpoints? It seems like we're locked out of a lot of the fun things in EVE, such as going and killing ratters in nullsec, covert ops, and more.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2016-10-10 03:36:12 UTC
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Cato Conroy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-10-10 03:44:47 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.



Highsec wardeccing?
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#6 - 2016-10-10 07:02:39 UTC
Cato Conroy wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.



Highsec wardeccing?


No. Anything but that. Only plebs do that.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2016-10-10 07:17:33 UTC
Mortlake wrote:
Cato Conroy wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.



Highsec wardeccing?


No. Anything but that. Only plebs do that.

Exactly, become plebs like us and ... God damn it mort.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
radkid10
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-10-10 10:51:36 UTC
there is a covert op ship you can get now go for the Astero

it's the first ship I ever fell in love with

all you need to do is train for drones for most of its offense

it's the only T1 ship can use a covert cloaking device
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#9 - 2016-10-10 11:16:19 UTC
I am sure if you apply together you can have all the benefits of a corp and still roam together as much as you want. Join the Corps Mining fleet with max. Intel, boosts and all at one day and make a 4 man roam to blow that ISK you mined the next day?
Cato Conroy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-10-10 14:36:49 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
Cato Conroy wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.



Highsec wardeccing?


No. Anything but that. Only plebs do that.

Exactly, become plebs like us and ... God damn it mort.



Lol, sounds pretty fun, but I feel like we'd get torn apart by anybody that isn't a miner.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#11 - 2016-10-10 14:47:49 UTC
Cato Conroy wrote:


Lol, sounds pretty fun, but I feel like we'd get torn apart by anybody that isn't a miner.


Sure, but that's why you start out in t1 frigates. It takes a lot of losses to get good. But you get good, in frigates, you don't wait until you can fly bigger, more expensive ships, otherwise you just get ruled by a few dudes in cheap frigates.

A lot of people think they will save up a lot of isk, get lots of skill points, buy the super awesome ships, THEN get good. It doesn't work that way.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#12 - 2016-10-10 16:01:17 UTC
Cato Conroy wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
Cato Conroy wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.



Highsec wardeccing?


No. Anything but that. Only plebs do that.

Exactly, become plebs like us and ... God damn it mort.



Lol, sounds pretty fun, but I feel like we'd get torn apart by anybody that isn't a miner.

True, but that will happen the first couple of times whether ye have 5 or 500mill sp between ye.
You could also just deck miners for a little bit.

Just keep a low profile for a bit till ye get some of the tradecraft down ,neutral scouting, combat probing , and warping in on targets.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-10-10 22:48:28 UTC
I would like to start by stating a qualifier. I am not a PvPer so take everything that I say with regards to PvP with a grain of salt. That being said.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUu75fH8Uc

That is a link to an hour and four minute long video. It is put out by RnK ( Rooks and Kings ) and it is called "Clarion Call 4". In that video they explain in fairly decent detail an engagement profile that they seem to have perfected called the pipe bomb. I only link it to show what a small group of dedicated players can do up against far superior numbers.

Keep in mind these guys did not get this right the first time and there is a lot of prep work that goes into pulling something like this off. However with enough determination and the ability to learn from each engagement you can come up with stuff like this. It reminds me of a quote I've heard repeated over the years from Thomas Edison when asked about failing his first 1000 attempts at making a light bulb. He said that he did not fail at all only learned 1000 not to make a light bulb.

https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

That is a link to the Eveiseasy youtube channel where he posts many different types of instructional and informative Eve videos including this one where he shows what can be done on a days old alt up against years old characters in tech II ships.

So that pretty much establishes that you don't need superior numbers to win in this game and you don't need skill points. While both of those things may be very helpful neither guarantees you a win. However experience and knowledge of the game does help a lot and both of those require going out and trying stuff.

So the group of you guys can accomplish a lot and if you come up with plans and then learn from each engagement eventually you can become a force to be reckoned with.

While I often love to say that skill points don't prevent you from participating in anything with regards to fleet PvE activities that is one of the places where skill points makes a big difference. You can participate in large mining ops or Even run incursions with a fleet of relatively low skill point characters it helps to have a fully skilled Rorqual booster or T2 logi pilot for example. You can get both of those things in fleet with more experienced players on older characters but if you are determined to only fly with the group of young pilots that you have there are certain activities that you will have to work up towards.

With all of that out of the way I am going to list some activities that can be done in group. Some of these might be a bit out of reach in your first couple of months of play but no reason you can't start working towards them.

So here we go:
-Burner Missions
-Level 5 Missions
-DED combat sites
-cosmic anomalies
-incursions
-scanning wormholes looking for PvP prey
-running belts in low or null sec looking for faction spawns and fights
-day tripping into wormholes once you can fly medium hulls
-running null sec pirate missions for pirate LP.

This is just a quick list I came up with off of the top of my head. I am sure I am missing a whole bunch. The main point is to learn from each encounter and refine your tactics. You can only become experienced through trial and error so just try, adapt and then try again. Eventually you guys will find your niche

I also would like to say don't be afraid to hook up with a group of vets willing to show you guys the ropes. Just keep in mind there are no queueable and balanced events in Eve. Anything worth doing in this game you have to make happen. You can't just queue up for a heroic dungeon and run back from the graveyard when things go south. You have to get a plan together and then make it happen and deal with the outcome.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#14 - 2016-10-10 23:21:34 UTC
My $0.02:

Focus on your Fun/Hour rather than your ISK/Hour. As mentioned, *most* ISK making activity is rather dull, so long as you can afford your next ship, you're golden.

As for SP, it actually counts for a lot less than you might think. Picking your fights, sensible fleet maneuvers and not getting tunnel vision onto one target count for more than SP. Sure, with more SP your range of options starts to radically increase, but then, so does the expense of the ships you're flying.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.


^ so much this, and it doesn't have to be hisec 1337 peeveepee wardeccing either.

A fast moving, four man frigate gang can punch well above it's weight. Get your mates together, jump in your favourite T1 frigates and set a course for Low Security or 0.0 space. Find peeps, shoot 'em in the face, collect lewtz, harvest tears. Keep moving, especially in 0.0 space, get ahead of their intel channels and find some bling fit ratting ship to blow up. The loot from one 'nicely' fit ratting Ishtar or Tengu will keep your gang well stocked with frigates for a month.

protip: have at least one Tracking Disruptor and one Guidance Disruptor somewhere in your fleet, or have someone try out the mighty Crucifer EWAR boat.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#15 - 2016-10-10 23:25:59 UTC
Regards ergh's link to R&k , that's Big Boy alliance level strategy.

If you can apply the basic principles of clarion call you could make a mockery of about 80% of highsec corp's
Those being
Surprise ,
Isolation
And
Overwhelming Firepower.

Those are the elements I'm familiar with being successful.

Sure you can't outgun 150 lads but you can outgun any 3-5 of them depending on what they're flying
So
Again , isolate, surprise, overwhelm 🤘

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#16 - 2016-10-11 00:34:38 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Regards ergh's link to R&k , that's Big Boy alliance level strategy.


I wouldn't say it's an 'alliance level' strategy. Any corp with a Titan and a bunch of battleship pilots *can* try it out. RnK makes it look easy. I can tell you from my one aborted experience, it takes a lot of skill and a decent dash of luck to pull it off.

However, as an example of how the few can effectively fight the many, it's very good.

I would suggest a look at Clarion Call 3, The Wormhole Wars.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#17 - 2016-10-11 09:49:58 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.


micro gang stuff against nullbear blocks is super fun, especially with a competent fc, 4 people can cause a lot of grief to huge kitchen sink standing fleet gangs.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#18 - 2016-10-11 10:21:25 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.


micro gang stuff against nullbear blocks is super fun, especially with a competent fc, 4 people can cause a lot of grief to huge kitchen sink standing fleet gangs.

always been meaning to try this, anyone out there with particularly garbage standing fleets?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#19 - 2016-10-11 10:22:40 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
to WAR!

seriously you would be shocked at what 2-4 prepared and coordinating people can do to corps much much larger than yourselves.


micro gang stuff against nullbear blocks is super fun, especially with a competent fc, 4 people can cause a lot of grief to huge kitchen sink standing fleet gangs.

always been meaning to try this, anyone out there with particularly garbage standing fleets?


test were always fun for us in curse

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*