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Upcoming November Changes and their impact

Author
Weaock Bristal
Zombie Surplus
#1 - 2016-10-06 00:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaock Bristal
A little background on myself and my goals;

I have played EvE off and on for close to a decade now, Most recently I helped lead a low-sec pvp alliance to some small modicum of success however I quit the game back in 2013 because I grew tired of the endless baiting and bat-phoning swarms of capitals.

When I saw the changes that were being made to capital jump limitations among other things I decided to give EvE another shot, having sold all my characters it was the first time ever to come back with a fresh start so I thought I would keep with that sentiment and try something new. For me this was indy. Having been a pirate for a very long time prior to this I had never touched the stuff for fear of dirtying my elite hands but I wanted to do indy a little different than so many other fail corps I had seen.

For all intent and purposes I have achieved this goal, we give as good as we get;

In addition to taking a bunch of knuckle dragging indy’s from the the bottom of a barrel and teaching them to PvP with a tiny level of skill we manage to move about 25-35 Billion isk a month ore in high-sec and have just started branching out PI and Production with goals of adding an additional 10 billion profits per month within the next 30 days. We have accomplished all this since January of this year.

My corp took a 2 month break due to some rough real life blows dealt to our leadership but we have started our operations back up and within 24 hours of first operation we got war dec’d and have been war dec’d ever since (about 21 days at the time of writing). The dec’s themselves do not really bother me all too much, we drop all our critical roles out of corp and because we run neutral scouts in every direction we can just keep mining pretty much uninterrupted.

These new Command/Industrial changes are dramatically impacting that and I am not sure if anyone is really addressing it. Wardecs are a hot mess and have been since forever and that is coming from someone who used to love to abuse the **** out of them, the first orca I ever trained was so that I could ship swap between my 3 proteus's and kill war targets. I don’t really want to get into that because I honestly don’t believe CCP has the ability or competence to fix war dec’s or they would have gotten it right in one of the previous 3 passes they have attempted.

We had a leadership meeting and the overall decision was that our best recourse as Indy’s was to sell all our POCOs, disband the corp, move all our administration over to our website and work out of NPC corps using mostly Orca’s to do all our heavy lifting. This would make the only real risk to us suicide gankers to which we can again almost completely eliminated by proper scouting. I feel ridiculous even having to bring this up but when ever the best solution to an in game problem is the total lack of use of features and or total avoidance of the game mechanics, you have failed as a game designer your system is broken and you need to seriously re-evaluate your design.

We could continue down the path that we are going, but why? Why stress ourselves?
Weaock Bristal
Zombie Surplus
#2 - 2016-10-06 00:13:29 UTC
Their Impact, oh I am never going to hear the end of that one...
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#3 - 2016-10-06 05:42:25 UTC
Your problem with those changes is... what, exactly? And they pertain to wardecs... how?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-10-06 07:45:20 UTC
This should probably be posted as a reply to the dev blog you're commenting on, or in the player suggestions forum if you have suggestions
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#5 - 2016-10-06 08:49:58 UTC
If you've been wardecced 3 weeks in a row, it's a pretty safe bet you are giving them something they value - kills, fights, tears, whatever. If you want to be left alone, deny them their victory conditions.

Scouts work if you enjoy that gameplay - I'd rather have those characters mining. Drop to an NPC corp and carry on as usual - it only take a second. Rejoin your player corp when the war is over. If you run missions, create a second player corp and move there to avoid the NPC tax.

The rules are what they are - adapt and make them work for you.
DJ puar
Covert Economics
#6 - 2016-10-06 15:51:24 UTC
You need some null sec in your life. Come join us. Brin your Corp into Mordus Angels. The PI and its is great
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#7 - 2016-10-06 16:01:58 UTC
DJ puar wrote:
You need some null sec in your life. Come join us. Brin your Corp into Mordus Angels. The PI and its is great


Or find a good wormhole and haul with an NPC toon.

That said, I'm still confused as to why the changes to boosting would be impacted by war decs so much. You claim you had a Corp meeting but never outline the concerns that arose. Are you worried that your orca can't sit near a POS or station to dock quickly? If so, use the porpoise. Less risk with decent boosting. Plus if everyone is as worried as you, then no one will use an orca, all mineral prices will rise but nothing will change. What is the worry?

Is it something else? And if you have been decced for 3 weeks, why not leave one person in the Corp and start a new one? Is it your POCOs? Sell them or simply transfer them. You can easily form am alliance, add a few dummy corps, transfer POCOs to those spare corps and drop them from the alliance. The decced would have to pay for each war at that point.

Or hey...find a big Indy alliance. Join them and the war dec cost will be too high For the aggressor to keep paying.

So what is the concern? This seems like a worry over nothing instead of an actual risk or issue.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#8 - 2016-10-06 16:30:27 UTC
I really am having trouble wrapping my head around this.

You claim to have neutral scouts in each direction. Therefore you will see war targets coming. If you do see something, warp the orca off along with the rest of the fleet. Problem solved. If the orca moves too slow, put a web on some of your mining ships to help the orca warp faster. It's not like you would leave the orca in belt while the rest of the fleet runs.

Worst case, you have a minute weapon timer. Make sure you have a bookmark that puts you on station, preferably on one with a big docking radius. Given the boost to Orca hitpoints, it can last out the timer and you just laugh at the ammo wasted and the useless trip they just took. Plus you said it yourself, you are looking at a 1 bil profit a month increase. That's 10 orcas about. If you lose one, you still Make a big profit.

At work we have to create these Risk Cubes showing where potential problems may arrise in a project. The goal is to recognize a risk and create a mitigation plan to cover the risks. However, the biggest problem and the first thing they work on teaching is how to tell the difference between a risk and a worry. Risks you can plan for, worries are something that you really can't make a plan for and have no mitigation without going to insane levels of craziness.

You have a risk of war targets. You mitigate the risk by having scouts. If you really want to be covered, you also probe out any wormholes in the system and roll those so they disappear. Your risk is sufficiently mitigated.

A worry is if your scout has a heart attack. Yes it could happen. They could also be hit by a stray meteor. However, there is no real way to mitigate that because it leads to craziness. You could have alt scouts but then what if they both lose connection? The mitigation path gets too crazy and this points out what you fear is a worry, not a risk. So really, what are you risks? How can you mitigate them? Are you sure they are not worries instead which you are wasting time on? Cause as far as I can tell, nothing in the upcoming booster changes will make your life any more difficult especially given the basic mitigation plans you have in place already.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#9 - 2016-10-06 16:36:31 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
I really am having trouble wrapping my head around this.


Yeah, I don't get this at all.

The only thing of even remote importance to war decs is the fact that booster ships will have to be on grid, but there's no reason a booster has to be in corp, so that scarcely matter.

I can't imagine what the OP is carrying on about. Most of those changes are nothing short of amazing, TBH.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Benson en Efnyssen
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#10 - 2016-10-07 20:33:31 UTC
It's great. My alt can now bash POCOs in an orca!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#11 - 2016-10-08 18:53:57 UTC
Weaock Bristal wrote:
A little background on myself and my goals;

I have played EvE off and on for close to a decade now, Most recently I helped lead a low-sec pvp alliance to some small modicum of success however I quit the game back in 2013 because I grew tired of the endless baiting and bat-phoning swarms of capitals.

When I saw the changes that were being made to capital jump limitations among other things I decided to give EvE another shot, having sold all my characters it was the first time ever to come back with a fresh start so I thought I would keep with that sentiment and try something new. For me this was indy. Having been a pirate for a very long time prior to this I had never touched the stuff for fear of dirtying my elite hands but I wanted to do indy a little different than so many other fail corps I had seen.

For all intent and purposes I have achieved this goal, we give as good as we get;

In addition to taking a bunch of knuckle dragging indy’s from the the bottom of a barrel and teaching them to PvP with a tiny level of skill we manage to move about 25-35 Billion isk a month ore in high-sec and have just started branching out PI and Production with goals of adding an additional 10 billion profits per month within the next 30 days. We have accomplished all this since January of this year.

My corp took a 2 month break due to some rough real life blows dealt to our leadership but we have started our operations back up and within 24 hours of first operation we got war dec’d and have been war dec’d ever since (about 21 days at the time of writing). The dec’s themselves do not really bother me all too much, we drop all our critical roles out of corp and because we run neutral scouts in every direction we can just keep mining pretty much uninterrupted.

These new Command/Industrial changes are dramatically impacting that and I am not sure if anyone is really addressing it. Wardecs are a hot mess and have been since forever and that is coming from someone who used to love to abuse the **** out of them, the first orca I ever trained was so that I could ship swap between my 3 proteus's and kill war targets. I don’t really want to get into that because I honestly don’t believe CCP has the ability or competence to fix war dec’s or they would have gotten it right in one of the previous 3 passes they have attempted.

We had a leadership meeting and the overall decision was that our best recourse as Indy’s was to sell all our POCOs, disband the corp, move all our administration over to our website and work out of NPC corps using mostly Orca’s to do all our heavy lifting. This would make the only real risk to us suicide gankers to which we can again almost completely eliminated by proper scouting. I feel ridiculous even having to bring this up but when ever the best solution to an in game problem is the total lack of use of features and or total avoidance of the game mechanics, you have failed as a game designer your system is broken and you need to seriously re-evaluate your design.

We could continue down the path that we are going, but why? Why stress ourselves?


So you spend a bunch of words telling us you taught your crew how to fight and now you're disbanding because you might have to fight?

I mean take a closer look at that new Orca man: it's not a helpless punchbag. It can hit back.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Ria Nieyli
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2016-10-08 19:02:09 UTC
If by hit back you mean kill some small gangs by itself, then yes. It can. And to think I was excited about the second neut on the Procurer.
Arronicus
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#13 - 2016-10-12 19:57:02 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
If by hit back you mean kill some small gangs by itself, then yes. It can. And to think I was excited about the second neut on the Procurer.


How do you suppose an orca is going to kill small gangs by itself? It lacks the mobility to tackle, the mids to fit tackle and tank, and its damage is easily neutered by killing the drones. It will provide reasonable fire support for gangs where other ships are present with the orca to assist it, but on its own, I can't see an orca doing much to more than say, a pair of glass cannon catalysts.