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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Covert cloak logi

Author
Sammy Fischer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2016-10-07 17:28:19 UTC
I think it would be interesting to add a frigate and a cruiser hull to the T2 logi tree that can utilize a covert cloak in order to take a black ops bridge in order to give that play style support options.

What kinds of trade offs would be necessary compared to the T2 logi hulls we have now would that require?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2016-10-07 17:38:00 UTC
T3 let you do this.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#3 - 2016-10-07 18:39:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
T3 let you do this.

Was just about to type this
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2016-10-07 20:40:05 UTC
Just go buy an Etana.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Vic Jefferson
ElitistOps
WE FORM V0LTA
#5 - 2016-10-07 21:35:19 UTC
Most blops gangs do not need logi. When you do, bring T3 logi - they are actually okay but you need to keep your fleet very close to them. Another option is remote reps on the blops battleships, which actually opens up lots of options.

That being said the point of blops is usually to get in and out quickly, and use how the fight was set up to mitigate most of the potential damage, or bring enough falcons to maintain control. One thing CCP has done well is keep the blops very fragile - you get amazing mobility and damage, but at the cost of tank, making an actually balanced ship, at least conceptually. If only they would fix the scan res on them.

Have you tried remote-rep stratios fleet? If you get like 10 remote rep stratios, you are actually pretty scary!

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-10-07 22:15:42 UTC
Well, last time I checked, someone was selling an Ethana for 75 billion isk...
Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#7 - 2016-10-08 01:28:31 UTC
Etana or a T3

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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#8 - 2016-10-08 05:08:24 UTC
There is also an out of the ordinary Sin fit I have seen used by a few people as well. Run RR in the highs run less or even no high slot weapons. People who posted these fits say its not like its an offensive powerhouse of doom anyway and claim they have found it more useful as ghetto logistics.

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#9 - 2016-10-08 08:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
T3 logistics have only range as the downside of its logistical ability, I have a legion with covops cloak that reps 500/s has 230k ehp, cap stable, afterburner 70 sensor strength and 89% resists across the board.

I'm not sharing the fit but yeah it's really powerful.

So stop bitching because you didn't do your homework, tengus work too but their fits cost a lot more and aren't nearly as tanky, still beats a basi though, by more than twice on ehp.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Sammy Fischer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-10-08 16:16:28 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
T3 logistics have only range as the downside of its logistical ability, I have a legion with covops cloak that reps 500/s has 230k ehp, cap stable, afterburner 70 sensor strength and 89% resists across the board.

I'm not sharing the fit but yeah it's really powerful.

So stop bitching because you didn't do your homework, tengus work too but their fits cost a lot more and aren't nearly as tanky, still beats a basi though, by more than twice on ehp.

Bitching is awful strong, don't you think?

The T3 point is valid, but very expensive and comes with SP loss. And it doesn't address the idea of a T2 frigate logi that could bridge with bombers, Asteros, expedition frigs, etc. for small ship fights.

I think that just because T3 can do it does not mean that other T2 hulls that also can shouldn't exist. Otherwise why do we have HACs, HICs, Recons, etc.? All things T3 can do, but there is a T2 hull as well. Maybe if it is OP as has been suggested, it should be prevented on a T3 hull.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2016-10-08 18:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Sammy Fischer wrote:
it doesn't address the idea of a T2 frigate logi that could bridge with bombers, Asteros, expedition frigs, etc. for small ship fights.

Pro-tip: if you find yourself in a situation where you are actually fighting with Bombers and Expedition frigs (as in... fighting like you do with actual frigates)... then you have made a tactical mistake and are going to die.

Stealth Bombers and Expedition frigs effectively have no tank. At least... less tank than a normal frigate. The same goes for the cloaking cruisers.
And if you do fit these ships with some semblance of a tank... their ability to deal damage and/or Ewar is severely compromised.

This is why people fit them for max Ewar (so they can avoid fire) or max gank (to quickly kill whatever can be a threat).
A remote rep isn't going to save a fragile ship with low hitpoints.


NOTE: there are exceptions to this. The Astero, Stratios, and Pilgrim for example. But they are not the rule. Most Force Recons (and cloaking capable ships in general) are very light on tank compared to their class counterparts. They are not designed for direct engagements and won't stand up very well to focused fire (or much fire at all).


tldr; cloaky ships in EVE are not Romulan Warbirds or Klingon Birds of Prey (see: a "normal combat ship" with a cloak slapped on)... they are "assassin" type ships whose main defense is staying out of sight, causing confusion, and choosing engagements they can win.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#12 - 2016-10-09 02:49:32 UTC
Sammy Fischer wrote:
Arya Regnar wrote:
T3 logistics have only range as the downside of its logistical ability, I have a legion with covops cloak that reps 500/s has 230k ehp, cap stable, afterburner 70 sensor strength and 89% resists across the board.

I'm not sharing the fit but yeah it's really powerful.

So stop bitching because you didn't do your homework, tengus work too but their fits cost a lot more and aren't nearly as tanky, still beats a basi though, by more than twice on ehp.

Bitching is awful strong, don't you think?

The T3 point is valid, but very expensive and comes with SP loss. And it doesn't address the idea of a T2 frigate logi that could bridge with bombers, Asteros, expedition frigs, etc. for small ship fights.

I think that just because T3 can do it does not mean that other T2 hulls that also can shouldn't exist. Otherwise why do we have HACs, HICs, Recons, etc.? All things T3 can do, but there is a T2 hull as well. Maybe if it is OP as has been suggested, it should be prevented on a T3 hull.



Nopoors

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

DrysonBennington
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-10-09 17:55:11 UTC
Sammy Fischer wrote:
I think it would be interesting to add a frigate and a cruiser hull to the T2 logi tree that can utilize a covert cloak in order to take a black ops bridge in order to give that play style support options.

What kinds of trade offs would be necessary compared to the T2 logi hulls we have now would that require?


A Cloaked Logi with it's own Cyno Generator with long range, out to 100 km, remote repair. The fleet could blop and then cyno out without worrying about waiting for the logi.

Remote Reps also need to be tweaked as well so that the farther away you are from the ship the less repair that will be made.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#14 - 2016-10-09 19:14:52 UTC
*frysquint*

Who let Dryson out of his cage?
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#15 - 2016-10-10 15:45:13 UTC
Sammy Fischer wrote:
Arya Regnar wrote:
T3 logistics have only range as the downside of its logistical ability, I have a legion with covops cloak that reps 500/s has 230k ehp, cap stable, afterburner 70 sensor strength and 89% resists across the board.

I'm not sharing the fit but yeah it's really powerful.

So stop bitching because you didn't do your homework, tengus work too but their fits cost a lot more and aren't nearly as tanky, still beats a basi though, by more than twice on ehp.

Bitching is awful strong, don't you think?

The T3 point is valid, but very expensive and comes with SP loss. And it doesn't address the idea of a T2 frigate logi that could bridge with bombers, Asteros, expedition frigs, etc. for small ship fights.

I think that just because T3 can do it does not mean that other T2 hulls that also can shouldn't exist. Otherwise why do we have HACs, HICs, Recons, etc.? All things T3 can do, but there is a T2 hull as well. Maybe if it is OP as has been suggested, it should be prevented on a T3 hull.



when your fielding a fleet of blops that each cost more than a carrier then a t3 logi really isnt expensive

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*