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capital ships and the solo player

Author
loneworf
UnHoly C0nF3SSi0ns
ClockWork Orang3
#1 - 2016-10-06 22:07:55 UTC
Please see below a post i sent to ccp. Im curious if anyone else gets the same total frustration as me.

Hello team,

Its time for me to continue my lobbying for game change regarding capitals and wh space. As you will know from previous tickets im trying to make you aware of improvements you can make to the game play of the half of the human family that are introverts. A quick review of my previous points :-

Eve is based on training skills
this training opens possibilitys that give a greater game experience
the possibilities need to be fair other wise what is the point in training them?

The problem is ship progression. With carriers they are a target to pvp players and they can only be flown in null or wh space with effect. i live in wh space because im a solo player. i seem to give great fun to pvp players who like to kill me and it gets tiresome. Once again i got ganked by about 8 players and even though i gave a 40 minute fight i didnt kill even one. This is a continual pattern as there is absolutely no fairness in this situation. All i ever do is lose with there being no deterrent to pvp players. I even ca-lapsed the wh's in my wh but one spawned and the team inside then had there giggle. This imbalance has made me leave the game before - im not doing so this time in fact i renewed my subscription for another 3 months - but as is usual i want to make you realise there is no place to use a carrier that you get a fair fight when your a solo player. You will see by my character i have lost a number of very expensive ships to pve - you dont see me complain about that ! Its the total frustration that ccp use and the training concept of getting better ships but they can not be realised by a solo player. There has to be a way that this can be resolved. Please consider my request because losing so many fine ships gets wearing and takes ages to replace because i cant just buy one. I have to wait for a wh that is big enough to take a capital ship that opens to a system that is selling one. This can take weeks. Manufacturing in a wh also takes weeks and on average i lose 3 occators getting the materials inside.

Its a great game but it could be better for the solo player - please remember not all people are extroverts who are craving companionship, 50% of the population are introverts or simply dont feel like interacting after a hard days work. im still wanting the same opportunities to use those ship skills that are the back bone of the game but i dont want to be simply fueling the PVP experience for its own sake. Surely a pvp experience is enhanced in a fair fight not picking on solo players were they have no risk at all.

The proposed idea is that anyone who is in a fleet in a wh gets some kind of penalty when attacking solo players involved in pve at a site. The idea is to make the fight fair and not a forgone conclusion. There needs to a a real deterrent or risk to attacking a carrier or similar vessel. This effect only to happen in wh space as null is the place for team pvp and this experience should not be changed for those players. This will give a genuine outlet to the training options you give and a reason to keep playing the game to the solo player.
Malthuras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-10-06 23:19:20 UTC
This is a terrible idea.

You chose to fly solo, more power to you. If you want to be a carrier in a site solo by yourself, thats tons of isk. However, if you choose to operate by yourself, you reap both the rewards and risk of that. Your suggestion is akin to "Waa things aren't fair because people bring more stuff than I do by myself".

EVE isn't fair. Everything is a trap, and wh space is the most unfair of all. HTFU.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#3 - 2016-10-06 23:33:34 UTC
if you're going to use capitals in a wormhole, sooner or later people are going to notice.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#4 - 2016-10-07 01:26:56 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Uh. No.

You, a single pilot, lost a fight to a group of people.

WH space is not designed to cater to solo players who don't want to get jumped. That's the function of hisec, an area of space that is a bit less lucrative because it is less dangerous.

Further, CAPITAL ships aren't designed to be flown solo really. They're extremely vulnerable to very cheap ships without some supporting fleet on purpose. They were designed as the centerpiece of corporate and alliance fleets. The fact that you CAN use them to rat doesn't mean the game needs to be redesigned around ratting in them, or making you have some magic shield because you refuse to make friends.

YOU made the decision to fly a very expensive ship, without backup, in space that makes it extremely easy to gank you.

The game doesn't need some artificial mechanism to remedy your poor decisions. You made a very risky decision, and it didn't work out for you. Either alter your decision making processes, learn to live with your losses due to your risky decisions, or find a game that is designed more in the direction of "fair fights" because EVE is not that game and most likely never will be.
Sojourn
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-10-07 02:01:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sojourn
I'll say what others will want to, but won't...

Massively Multiplayer Online... X

Jesus christ, what is it with solo wannabe's constantly trying to harm the game of those that actually play the game with a group. So you got ganked. Whoopty doo. Deal with it and move on.

What you're proposing is like going into the Ghetto, walking upto the post box's and properties of people then knocking them over or damaging things, and expecting a group of big black men to go easy on you one at a time, or at least fight you blind folded. Numbers are a force multiplyer. If you can't get that through your head then leave Eve.

I am all for expanding wormhole space and having players come because I like the content, but people like you, I'd rather not have people like you in them...

TLDR VERSION: **** OFF Arrow
radkid10
Universal Exos
#6 - 2016-10-07 06:38:43 UTC
loneworf wrote:
Please see below a post i sent to ccp. Im curious if anyone else gets the same total frustration as me.

Hello team,

Its time for me to continue my lobbying for game change regarding capitals and wh space. As you will know from previous tickets im trying to make you aware of improvements you can make to the game play of the half of the human family that are introverts. A quick review of my previous points :-

Eve is based on training skills
this training opens possibilitys that give a greater game experience
the possibilities need to be fair other wise what is the point in training them?

The problem is ship progression. With carriers they are a target to pvp players and they can only be flown in null or wh space with effect. i live in wh space because im a solo player. i seem to give great fun to pvp players who like to kill me and it gets tiresome. Once again i got ganked by about 8 players and even though i gave a 40 minute fight i didnt kill even one. This is a continual pattern as there is absolutely no fairness in this situation. All i ever do is lose with there being no deterrent to pvp players. I even ca-lapsed the wh's in my wh but one spawned and the team inside then had there giggle. This imbalance has made me leave the game before - im not doing so this time in fact i renewed my subscription for another 3 months - but as is usual i want to make you realise there is no place to use a carrier that you get a fair fight when your a solo player. You will see by my character i have lost a number of very expensive ships to pve - you dont see me complain about that ! Its the total frustration that ccp use and the training concept of getting better ships but they can not be realised by a solo player. There has to be a way that this can be resolved. Please consider my request because losing so many fine ships gets wearing and takes ages to replace because i cant just buy one. I have to wait for a wh that is big enough to take a capital ship that opens to a system that is selling one. This can take weeks. Manufacturing in a wh also takes weeks and on average i lose 3 occators getting the materials inside.

Its a great game but it could be better for the solo player - please remember not all people are extroverts who are craving companionship, 50% of the population are introverts or simply dont feel like interacting after a hard days work. im still wanting the same opportunities to use those ship skills that are the back bone of the game but i dont want to be simply fueling the PVP experience for its own sake. Surely a pvp experience is enhanced in a fair fight not picking on solo players were they have no risk at all.

The proposed idea is that anyone who is in a fleet in a wh gets some kind of penalty when attacking solo players involved in pve at a site. The idea is to make the fight fair and not a forgone conclusion. There needs to a a real deterrent or risk to attacking a carrier or similar vessel. This effect only to happen in wh space as null is the place for team pvp and this experience should not be changed for those players. This will give a genuine outlet to the training options you give and a reason to keep playing the game to the solo player.


quit complaining to the company running this game they're more likely going to banned your account

not everything in this game is best for solo players stop having entitlement issues

I expect my ass to be kicked every day I go into a wormhole it doesn't happen every day but I expect it to happen so I'm prepared for it

I think I've been playing the game for 40 to 45 days now and I've only got killed by players one time

my ship is no carrier but if I lose 5 to 6 in one week I'm paying for a carrier but I'm not that stupid

learn to use the directional scan and get yourself a cloaking device if you're not using one

if you can't do those basic things why are you flying something that expensive

you should go play another game I don't think this game is the game for you
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-10-07 10:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloemkoolsaus
loneworf wrote:
Its a great game but it could be better for the solo player

There is plenty of stuff you can do as a solo player. Remember that the high-end sleeper sites where designed with groups of players in mind. There is other content for solo players.

loneworf wrote:
You will see by my character i have lost a number of very expensive ships to pve

Risk vs Reward Question

loneworf wrote:
you dont see me complain about that !

Then what exactly is this?

loneworf wrote:
the training concept of getting better ships

In eve, bigger is not better.

Also, what the guys above me said!
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#8 - 2016-10-07 10:48:17 UTC
I agree! Make it so you can jump capitals through and into low-class space!!!

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

Lorno Death
Sternenbastarde
#9 - 2016-10-07 11:48:00 UTC
Sorry, I am not able to find any capital kill here: https://zkillboard.com/character/1738919931/stats/
COuld you please point out where the **** you ever lost a capital? And an Orca is not a capital for PVE...
Brown Pathfinder
Black Spot on Parchment
#10 - 2016-10-07 13:57:13 UTC
Hey sorry about your losses but you should read the warning message on the show info window when entering a wormhole.
It clairly states its space filled with dangers, maybe not exactly listed what dangers but still, same as you try jump into low-sec space... Smile
Wormhole space is like others mentioned alot about risk vs reward and special gameplay that you won't find exactly the same way as in other types of space.
I would like you study some of the community guides and info about the eve's deep black space:
Eve uni Wiki about wormhole space

If you have dyslexia or want to have a more visual and audio guides you can look up several on youtube!
like this guys has a few Anglov WH Pve guides

Or CCP's Flight Academy shows a few of the basics too!

Some good info about concepts in Eve Online by Crossing Zebras!

Good luck!
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#11 - 2016-10-07 14:00:55 UTC
Sojourn wrote:
I'll say what others will want to, but won't...

Massively Multiplayer Online... X

MMORPG
Mostly Men Online Role Playing Girls

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#12 - 2016-10-07 20:20:12 UTC
You do realize 'introvert' doesn't mean "I don't want to talk to people, and want to play solo", right?

Introvert and anti-social are not interchangeable terms.
loneworf
UnHoly C0nF3SSi0ns
ClockWork Orang3
#13 - 2016-10-07 23:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: loneworf
thanks for the reponses - more than i expected. All i take from this are comments from PVP players. Are any of you solo players to be able to comment in kind ? if you are then you have a a fair voice if not you dont ---- i also think you are missing the point , show me were you can use a carrier as a solo player ?? do you agree the game is based on training - yes . then the goal of owning the best possible ships are not realised by all genre of player - that is my point - do you actually get the point?
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#14 - 2016-10-08 01:06:38 UTC
loneworf wrote:
thanks for the reponses - more than i expected. All i take from this are comments from PVP players. Are any of you solo players to be able to comment in kind ? if you are then you have a a fair voice if not you dont ---- i also think you are missing the point , show me were you can use a carrier as a solo player ?? do you agree the game is based on training - yes . then the goal of owning the best possible ships are not realised by all genre of player - that is my point - do you actually get the point?

Holy ****, was that a "WAAAAAAAH! Youre comment isn't valid because it doesn't agree with mine" Lol
Get a grip dude. I also know, personally know, three players who fly solo and have a carrier. Difference is, they don't cry about it when they get killed in a site...

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."

Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#15 - 2016-10-08 04:03:34 UTC
You should look into HAW Dreads.

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#16 - 2016-10-08 13:30:54 UTC
loneworf wrote:
thanks for the reponses - more than i expected. All i take from this are comments from PVP players. Are any of you solo players to be able to comment in kind ? if you are then you have a a fair voice if not you dont ---- i also think you are missing the point , show me were you can use a carrier as a solo player ?? do you agree the game is based on training - yes . then the goal of owning the best possible ships are not realised by all genre of player - that is my point - do you actually get the point?


Except that is not the way the ship progression works in Eve. Bigger is not always better and the bigger ships do alot better when supported correctly by others. Each ship is a tool you use for certain purposes. They are better at that job, while suffering in other ones. You aren't meant to be able to do whatever you want with whatever ship you want without having problems, especially when flying solo.

Eve is not a kind game for people who fly alone. You are meant to play with others, to build something together. While nothing is stopping you from playing alone, the deck is always going to be stacked against you from the start. This is especially true in wormhole-space which, due to its nature, forces more cooperation between pilots than the other parts of Eve.

You aren't a special snowflake that should have the game bend around your wishes and big ships aren't designed to be flown alone. HTFU and find some friends to fly with. Hopefully I'll see you in space and I'll make sure another wreck will appear.

Wormholer for life.

loneworf
UnHoly C0nF3SSi0ns
ClockWork Orang3
#17 - 2016-10-08 21:19:17 UTC
Your comment was a good one thank you. I dont think though that the core item im trying to talk about is being addressed completely in the cordial comments offered. The core point i am making is based around the training of skills and being able to realise them. Who else would like to be able to use a carrier on a more regular basis. If the game is stacked in such a way that you simply have to have support to fly one then realising the training for a carrier can not be truly realised unless you are 1) in a corp with active crew mates 2) these team mates are happy to offer protection when you want to fly it 3) that you all live in null or wh space. This means that one cant just hop in a carrier at will - your mates have to be online and the space your in has to have something to do with it to make it fun to use, other wise there is no point in training for a carrier. It takes maybe 18 months to train well. Im asking that an opportunity be given to fly one at will were the odds of survival are better than they are now to make it worth doing. My goal was to be able to solo a c5 and possibly a c6 site. It takes time in space to do this and learn the site. I have had heavy loses doing so and lost many carriers which was all my choice to do so. I get particularly upset when i get ganked when there is no equal fight to be had. If i see a crew out hunting its always a ' for gone' conclusion that i will die. i think in the five years i have been playing i have only shoot down 1 player from a hunting crew. Surely anyone can see that is an imbalance. I really fail to see the pleasure in a fight that is never equal were all know they are going to kill the carrier and there will be no loses to them. That is the reality at present and the point i am lobbying for change.

i am wondering if after 5 years of gaming that maybe it is time for me to leave. I started , like many, in a high sec mining corp and then we moved on and we played as a wh corp for about 2 years because we could mine the ore we wanted to, but, as happens on a regular bases the player interests change and we all separated. We were not PVP players even then as a matter of principle but some decided they wanted to be so. I simply dont like the predatory nature of pvp and that statement reflects my real life feelings. I decided to stay in a wh and make them my personnel challenge to find a way to do the sites solo. Thats when i trained for a carrier. I finally have a fit that does indeed do a c5 site and the escalations, which, is a huge personnel achievement. I have never once had a carrier long enough that it has paid for itself. i get ganked before that time as the sites have warp disruptors on them and i have to stay in space for about 1.5 hours to do a site. That means i get visited by ganking crews and every time its the same outcome - death. I would defy anyone to feel any differently in my situation. A fair fight is totally acceptable but it is never never never a fair fight and im fed up with it. The training skills cant be realised in a way that they can be realised.


Malthuras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2016-10-08 23:52:00 UTC
Everyone understands what you're saying. What we are telling you, and you're not getting, is that...and bear with me now...

EVE is NOT fair at all, in the slightest.

You choose to train for whatever ships you want. You make money from escalations SOLO, great...You also choose to take the risk that is involved with that, running by yourself, waiting to get ganked. There is nothing you can say that will convince anyone else to feel sorry for you. If you want to make tons of isk in a solo carrier by yourself in sites, great. But if you can't accept the risk that comes with it, don't do it. Risk vs Reward, learn that concept. Train for what you want to train, but have a plan before doing so, and don't come here trying to complain about how EVE isn't fair because since the day this game started, its been like that. I don't think this game is for you if you can't understand that.
loneworf
UnHoly C0nF3SSi0ns
ClockWork Orang3
#19 - 2016-10-09 21:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: loneworf
Thank you for your rely. I would like to point out though that not one of my carriers has paid for itself due to the interception of pvp ganking crews. the last carrier did 2x core garrison sites at approx 350m isk each but the carrier loses were 2.1b isk. not a good business model. i finance their build by mining gas and what i can actually pve in the c5 wh were i live. I think i do get the drift of those comments that have been left and that is that the unfairness to the game shouldnt be a worry - but - let me tell you i feel like throwing stuff around the room when i get ganked like that and i put that down to a natural reaction to injustice that seem to be inbuilt. That instinct seems to have fuelled people like Mandela, Luther king etc. when injustice is real and needs addressing of which they did. ( im not making a heroic comparison to myself here though as that would be ridiculous ! ) Even though eve is a game it still appies. Eve advertises careers in mining , exploration , industry , pve etc but when it comes to pve a c6 wh is the ultimate and it cant actually be realised at present in a way that even breaks even in effort, time and skill. That needs addressing in my view. It does sound as if i stand alone in this point and i will have to let the matter rest and consider my future.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#20 - 2016-10-10 00:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Wander Prian
Have you tried, I don't know... Joining a corporation? Playing with others? Flying something cheaper than a carrier?

Nowhere has CCP said that you are supposed to be able to solo C5 sites in a carrier without a huge risk of losing it to the site or to players. You have chosen to play alone in the hardest part of the game and now you complain how it's not fair... The problem is with you, not with the game. Everything is working as it should.

Wormholer for life.

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