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Intaki Ripples on Placid Waters

Author
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#21 - 2016-10-03 22:18:04 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I am WONDERFUL company, James. Ask me to dinner and you see if I'm not!

Of that, I have little doubt, though we seem to travel in different circles.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#22 - 2016-10-03 22:20:07 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Yes, because it's always best to be judgmental and pejorative than to actually consider an idea based on its merits, right?
Much like making assumptions without context.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#23 - 2016-10-03 22:32:48 UTC
Bataav wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Should ‘Intaki Nationalism’ ever gain popular support, its advocates will certainly be judged by the company they keep.
Just as Intaki is judged today, under Federal governance.

While it certainly matters who we build partnerships with, the important point is that we have the freedom to decide.

Intaki is a member of the Federal Union. It chose to be so.

When the majority of the ‘Intaki’ choose otherwise the questions will become relevant.

Until then you are by many, considered separatist agitators in collusion with the State.
Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#24 - 2016-10-03 23:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bataav
James Syagrius wrote:
Bataav wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Should ‘Intaki Nationalism’ ever gain popular support, its advocates will certainly be judged by the company they keep.
Just as Intaki is judged today, under Federal governance.

While it certainly matters who we build partnerships with, the important point is that we have the freedom to decide.

Intaki is a member of the Federal Union. It chose to be so.

When the majority of the ‘Intaki’ choose otherwise the questions will become relevant.

Until then you are by many, considered separatist agitators in collusion with the State.
I appreciate the efficiency with which we're rattling through the usual accusations and arguments, as I intend to address each in turn.

For now though I'll simply argue that in a democracy the questions are always relevant.
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#25 - 2016-10-04 14:08:16 UTC
It brings me a lot of joy to find this thread in the IGS today. I have been following the work of the ILF from a distance for some time now and it gladdens me to see that you are still hard at work on behalf of the Intaki. Baatav, your eloquence and diplomatic approach reflect well on our people.

The image of the Intaki as a stream that splits and rejoins as it moves ever forward is one that speaks to me. I split from my home in Placid some years ago to live in Anoikis, but have recently made the decision to return and use what I learned out there to seek business opportunities in Placid and Syndicate regions. Once I get things organized I will get in touch, as I would be interested in helping out however I can.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#26 - 2016-10-04 14:51:21 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Yes, because it's always best to be judgmental and pejorative than to actually consider an idea based on its merits, right?
Much like making assumptions without context.


Veiled threats are their own context, sir.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#27 - 2016-10-04 23:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
Bataav wrote:
I appreciate the efficiency with which we're rattling through the usual accusations and arguments, as I intend to address each in turn.

For now, though I'll simply argue that in a democracy the questions are always relevant.

We are aren't we, but then these are old arguments. While I oppose your eventual goal, I must admit you are a well chosen and able spokesman. I look forward to more.. productive deliberations, should they occur.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#28 - 2016-10-04 23:08:56 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Yes, because it's always best to be judgmental and pejorative than to actually consider an idea based on its merits, right?
Much like making assumptions without context.


Veiled threats are their own context, sir.

Threats?

Who threatened whom?

Perhaps you threatened me, and I missed it.

But being a humble trader, I often miss the nuances of such.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#29 - 2016-10-04 23:23:50 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Who threatened whom?

Perhaps you threatened me, and I missed it.

But being a humble trader, I often miss the nuances of such.


James Syagrius wrote:
Should ‘Intaki Nationalism’ ever gain popular support, its advocates will certainly be judged by the company they keep.


That is a veiled threat of recriminations—and make no mistake, traders and politicians are capable of much, much more effective and far-reaching threats than the people who only shoot things.
Laurentis Thiesant
Institute of Social Development
#30 - 2016-10-08 23:56:25 UTC
Bataav wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Bataav wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Should ‘Intaki Nationalism’ ever gain popular support, its advocates will certainly be judged by the company they keep.
Just as Intaki is judged today, under Federal governance.

While it certainly matters who we build partnerships with, the important point is that we have the freedom to decide.

Intaki is a member of the Federal Union. It chose to be so.

When the majority of the ‘Intaki’ choose otherwise the questions will become relevant.

Until then you are by many, considered separatist agitators in collusion with the State.
I appreciate the efficiency with which we're rattling through the usual accusations and arguments, as I intend to address each in turn.

For now though I'll simply argue that in a democracy the questions are always relevant.


Ask your question, in a democracy you are always welcome.

I am confident that the answer of the Intaki people will remain what it has been for centuries.

You probably won't like it.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2016-10-09 00:17:11 UTC
Laurentis Thiesant wrote:
Bataav wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Bataav wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Should ‘Intaki Nationalism’ ever gain popular support, its advocates will certainly be judged by the company they keep.
Just as Intaki is judged today, under Federal governance.

While it certainly matters who we build partnerships with, the important point is that we have the freedom to decide.

Intaki is a member of the Federal Union. It chose to be so.

When the majority of the ‘Intaki’ choose otherwise the questions will become relevant.

Until then you are by many, considered separatist agitators in collusion with the State.
I appreciate the efficiency with which we're rattling through the usual accusations and arguments, as I intend to address each in turn.

For now though I'll simply argue that in a democracy the questions are always relevant.


Ask your question, in a democracy you are always welcome.

I am confident that the answer of the Intaki people will remain what it has been for centuries.

You probably won't like it.


Then you probably have nothing to be worried about.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-10-09 12:32:50 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
Julianus Soter wrote:

Those that truly know me understand that collaboration and peaceful negotiation are as agreeable to me as to any other capsuleer. Many have refused diplomacy in the past. I hope that we can move past such unfortunate history.


Right. You're not fooling anyone.

Trusting a gallente for Caldari is same as stepping on a rake before looking where it stands, knowing that it will hit your forehead and still stepping on it regardless with hope it won't hit you, after all.

*BAM*

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#33 - 2016-10-10 13:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
I've always been loosely interested in Intaki separatism on a conceptual level (I wouldn't really consider myself well-versed enough to make a judgement on it's merits), so it's interesting to see it on the IGS again.

I'm curious, though. If your movement were to gain ground, what exactly would you define as "Intaki space" and push for the secession of? The only real separatist movements that have taken place in the interstellar age have either been violent and/or had circumstances that clearly defined the borders already, so with the fact that there's no real clean divide between where ethnic Gallente cultural dominance ends and Intaki begins, I'm curious on how you'd aim for it with diplomacy in mind.

Secondly, is your goal to become a wholly independent state, or to form a government with the Syndicate, since they already exist as a quasi-independent ethnic Intaki power?
Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#34 - 2016-10-12 00:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Bataav
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
I'm curious, though. If your movement were to gain ground, what exactly would you define as "Intaki space" and push for the secession of? The only real separatist movements that have taken place in the interstellar age have either been violent and/or had circumstances that clearly defined the borders already, so with the fact that there's no real clean divide between where ethnic Gallente cultural dominance ends and Intaki begins, I'm curious on how you'd aim for it with diplomacy in mind.
When the Intaki people first took to the stars, we did so eagerly. We settled the neighbouring systems throughout the Viriette constellation, and the years that followed saw Intaki colonies founded across the wider Placid region. Over time, the Gallente Federation has pushed back the Intaki Assembly's domain, restricting it's influence to the Intaki home system itself, though there are some constellation-wide responsibilities.

However, despite Federal power creep, many of those colonies still identify as Intaki, rather than Federal, or colloquially as Gallente. This was evident during the Rechard V disaster, where it was an Intaki, not Federal, colony that was all but wiped out.

We believe that these Intaki colonies should form the foundation of a defined, self-determined Intaki nation state.

It is my own opinion that we do not live in a true Federation. We should be able to clearly identify the boundaries between one member state and another, and yet we cannot. The lines are blurred to the extent that I believe what we really have is a single Gallente nation, with notional devolved territories with some administrative responsibilities.

This is not what I described earlier as an equal partnership.

The specific point of "cultural dominance" is important from a socio-political perspective.

We have repeatedly stated that our campaign is not one of ethnic nationalism. We accept the fact that many Intaki men and women are content in their lives across the Federation. However, there is an underlying ethnic Intaki influence to our cause.

With our focus on the Intaki home system, and those colonies I mentioned earlier, the fact that a very high percentage of the population is of Intaki heritage matters. It matters because of the culture and values that brings. It matters because the historic challenges of living on Intaki Prime has developed a distinct culture - that which defines us as Intaki - which continues to inform our world view to this day.

Of course there is variety, but these are generally accepted themes which evidence suggests do broadly apply, and which set us apart from say, the Mannar.

Let me give a quick, and very culturally stereotypical example.

A family of Intaki heritage lives happily in Everyshore. Their parents lived there happily, and their parents before them. Being exposed to different local current affairs to those in Placid means their priorities have changed over the generations. Local political matters have a bigger impact on their daily lives, and so their decisions are different. And while they may be more likely to identify as 'Gallente' along with those around them, their innate Intaki values suggest their political views would belong to the dove bloc. Perhaps it is likely that they would have supported diplomatic efforts for peace on Tei-Su, while their Mannar neighbours advocated sending troops in to enforce peace.

Meanwhile back in Placid, the situation, even beyond the reach of Assembly governance, will be very different.

Ida is much more prevalent. People are speaking Intaki. The architecture is Intaki as is the food. The towns and cities are steeped in traitional Intaki culture and the fact is that the Federation with a heavily dominant Gallente culture, simply does not reflect this.

We only need look at the fact that Intaki and her colonies play host to the Gallente - Caldari conflict, while Dodixie, Luminaire and Villore do not.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2016-10-12 00:39:05 UTC
The man has a point. In support of his point I can simply say that the Intaki are not the first race to see that membership in the Gallente Federation inherently benefits the Gallente more than any other polity.

It is clear that the Intaki have not reached a consensus on whether this is a deal-breaker, at this point, but it is clear that a minority have done so.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#36 - 2016-10-12 01:50:06 UTC
I can only speak for myself, but I think the best case scenario would be one where the Intaki remain within the Federation, but with a greater degree of autonomy and where the Federation provides adequate security to Intaki space (namely the Virette constellation where Intaki and her colonies lie).

Right now when I try to visit home it means dodging gate camps and the occasional loss of a ship and crew. Our worlds languish in a pirate infested war zone and our voices are drowned out in the Senate, we didn't even get to vote in the last presidential election since at the time the Intaki system was under Caldari control. I feel like my people deserve better.

I would also be interested in a scenario where the Intaki exiles in Syndicate space who wish to return home were given that option or were at least free to settle planetside in the space they've settled.

Of course tied in to all of this is the relationship between the Federation and the State. The Intaki have always been sympathetic to the Caldari (well many of us) and that has long been a point of contention between us and the Gallente. As long as there remains bad blood between the Federation and the State that will cast a shadow on relations between Intaki and Villore.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#37 - 2016-10-12 07:36:50 UTC
The Intaki Assembly asked for a minimal Federation Navy presence around their home, in a show of independence. Now two of the central points raised by Intaki separatists are "we want more independence and autonomy" and "the Federation hasn't kept us secure"...?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2016-10-12 08:00:38 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
The Intaki Assembly asked for a minimal Federation Navy presence around their home, in a show of independence. Now two of the central points raised by Intaki separatists are "we want more independence and autonomy" and "the Federation hasn't kept us secure"...?

There's a large difference between not adding to the defence of a system and turning it into a war zone.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#39 - 2016-10-12 12:51:21 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
The Intaki Assembly asked for a minimal Federation Navy presence around their home, in a show of independence. Now two of the central points raised by Intaki separatists are "we want more independence and autonomy" and "the Federation hasn't kept us secure"...?
I believe this is the last of the usual arguments against us, so thank you for bringing it up so we can get it out of the way.

No.

In a time before Serpentis and Sansha's Nation existed, and were therefore not a threat, and before the Caldari State had been founded, and therefore before the war, the Intaki demanded a minimal Federal Navy presence in Intaki space.

In. Intaki. Space.

Intaki space does not extend as far as it once did, and under the Federal system, the Assembly is only responsible for domestic security for the Intaki system itself, not the Viriette constellation and certainly not Placid as a whole. To this end, the Assembly has chosen to employ one of New Eden's most capable groups in the field - Mordu's Legion.

The Federation absolutely cannot have it both ways. It is unnacceptable to remove the Intaki Assembly's ability to do the same for the rest of the Intaki colonies, and then hold them accountable for Federal security failures across the entire region.

It's a damning assessment of Federal security measures in Placid, that a number of years ago during the Rise incident, even the Syndicate stepped in, with Intaki Space Police patrols reportedto be crossing the border to patrol.

So the Federation has a simple choice.

It can stop blaming the Intaki for security failures in systems and constellations over which it has no jurisdiction, or it can repatriate those powers to the Assembly, give it dominion over its colonies once more as a sovereign nation state and step aside.
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