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Why people leave EVE

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Author
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#41 - 2016-10-01 19:39:15 UTC
Teirnid wrote:
Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious.Smile

No idea. I've never experienced it int this way.

I've been mining and socializing in highsec with nullsec players, lowsec dwellers, wormholers, hulkageddon gankers. And who knows, without being aware, maybe even with code supporters. All of them great guys and no bias or superiority towards miners.

I don't know why my EVE experience is so different from yours. Maybe I was just lucky to get in touch with the right folks in the right moment.

So what I can say from my experience is, that your conclusions are way too simple and that my reality is different.

Should you decide to leave EVE, well, best of luck with whatever you want to do in the future.

Remove standings and insurance.

Lasisha Mishi
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2016-10-01 19:45:57 UTC
heres a better question to ask


why do people keep returning to EVE. what appeal does it have that we continue to return.

if you can answer that, you'll know why some people don't come back, while others will always be drawn back
Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2016-10-01 20:03:57 UTC
To Dracvlad Taishi Combine,

As you are the only mature person to respond to this thread with reasonable open mind and honesty while keeping to the facts and not slandering anyone person in the process.

I appreciate your reply. I know that this thread has been over run by the Trolls. Still, thank you for your time. I wish you the best of luck in the wars to come. I think that your right. (I know this next part will really get people fired up. =P) Alot of people think like the current republican candidate of the USA. My way is the only right way. All others are wrong and I will punish them till they come to my perspective of thinking, whether that is low, null, not flying a miner or hualer or helping gank. Every person believes their way of playing EVE is the right and only way. It's sad to see humanity brought so low.

If a player knew that if they performed a gank they would be shot in the leg in real life most would not do it. =D But this is a video game. Real world consequences do not apply. Not should they. Video game's, in general, shouldn't be taken too seriously. But Truth is no one plays a video game to get their ass kicked.

This game is about PvP and Casual PvE does not exist.

On a side thought. I think you hit a nail on the head. CODE thinks of mining as beneath them. Boring. And they can not understand how anyone would find it fun. They can't stand that someone would be finding enjoyment in something they find time consuming. So they try to punish them to make themselves feel better. It's brilliant in a twisted way. In any case. I'm not a miner. Gave up on it long ago. And Hauling I gave up on too after the Burning of Jita. I've learned from mistakes, painful as they were.

This is will be my last entry. Let the Trolls have their fun. I won't read their posts. But to any new players or players who have gotten ganked and are searching for understanding as to why and how and what happened, I hope this has been helpful. Don't feed the Troll and my you find solace in your loss.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#44 - 2016-10-01 20:05:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
heres a better question to ask


why do people keep returning to EVE. what appeal does it have that we continue to return.

if you can answer that, you'll know why some people don't come back, while others will always be drawn back

My accounts will lapse in the next months because I simply don't have the time to play anymore. If ever this changes and EVE is still what it used to be, I'll be back.

Best mmo out there in my opinion.

Remove standings and insurance.

Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
#45 - 2016-10-01 20:19:58 UTC
I hate to break it to you but EVE does stand for everyone verse everyone. The problem is you think in terms of these terms which have actual value. The conversion people use to give a real world estimate is only in terms of plex. If you did buy all that and lost it, yes that is pretty rough, but if nit remember its just pixels. The thing is, as a capsule er you are expected to learn some harsh lessons in some form. I have had two corps close because of bad incidents. I lost all of my possessions once, two years of items shot down in a few seconds. It was an emergency evacuation and died running through low sec. Then the corp air joined afterwards was torn apart by awoxing. I'm still flying today. I am still a industrialist. In fact, a few months ago my corp had a freighter pilot bumped off the gate in a hauling alt. We live 42 jumps from HS. He let us known and we used 3 out of corp, noncombat alts to keep him from being bumped too far. Eventually the would be ganker gave up. Understand that loss happens. The feeling of losing your space can be rough, but we chalk it up to experience. Don't kill your enemies with kindness, just figure out how they operate and deny them their fun.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#46 - 2016-10-01 20:22:10 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
No offense OP, but you have no clue how this game works and how you can survive. One reason, you (and others complaining in this thread) obviously never bothered learning the PvP mechanics*, which is crucial even for a "carebear" who never wants to engage in a fight. It's trivial to stay reasonable safe, and avoid being ganked/killed if you know the mechanics and make use of it. Yes, it means situational awareness and watching the news, and sometimes choosing the 90% but much safer solution (e.g. Skiff over Mack). You won't be able to eliminate risk completely, but it should be a calculated risk. Eve is all about economic decisions an calculated risks.
Indeed, remaining relatively safe is simply a matter of knowing the risks and planning for them; you don't to outrun the predators, playing smarter than the carebears is enough to make you a less appetising meal.



LOL true, the classic "I don't have to out run the bear, I just have to outrun YOU" strategy. And it works., althought I use a different strategy, the one where one doesn't even inhabit the BS forest (High Sec) the bear craps in Big smile.

But hey, at least today I learned that "Troll" translates as "people who can actually successfully play a video game and lose stuff without getting their feelings hurt".
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#47 - 2016-10-01 21:08:11 UTC
Teirnid wrote:
To Dracvlad Taishi Combine,

As you are the only mature person to respond to this thread with reasonable open mind and honesty while keeping to the facts and not slandering anyone person in the process.

I appreciate your reply. I know that this thread has been over run by the Trolls. Still, thank you for your time. I wish you the best of luck in the wars to come. I think that your right. (I know this next part will really get people fired up. =P) Alot of people think like the current republican candidate of the USA. My way is the only right way. All others are wrong and I will punish them till they come to my perspective of thinking, whether that is low, null, not flying a miner or hualer or helping gank. Every person believes their way of playing EVE is the right and only way. It's sad to see humanity brought so low.

If a player knew that if they performed a gank they would be shot in the leg in real life most would not do it. =D But this is a video game. Real world consequences do not apply. Not should they. Video game's, in general, shouldn't be taken too seriously. But Truth is no one plays a video game to get their ass kicked.

This game is about PvP and Casual PvE does not exist.

On a side thought. I think you hit a nail on the head. CODE thinks of mining as beneath them. Boring. And they can not understand how anyone would find it fun. They can't stand that someone would be finding enjoyment in something they find time consuming. So they try to punish them to make themselves feel better. It's brilliant in a twisted way. In any case. I'm not a miner. Gave up on it long ago. And Hauling I gave up on too after the Burning of Jita. I've learned from mistakes, painful as they were.

This is will be my last entry. Let the Trolls have their fun. I won't read their posts. But to any new players or players who have gotten ganked and are searching for understanding as to why and how and what happened, I hope this has been helpful. Don't feed the Troll and my you find solace in your loss.


Thanks, but you might want to read this

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#48 - 2016-10-01 21:28:19 UTC
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
[I wish you well in whatever you decide to do October 7th onwards!


Thanks and I wish you well, I have to say I have total respect for the organisation and dedication of CODE players.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2016-10-01 21:47:34 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Teirnid wrote:
Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious.Smile

No idea. I've never experienced it int this way.

I've been mining and socializing in highsec with nullsec players, lowsec dwellers, wormholers, hulkageddon gankers. And who knows, without being aware, maybe even with code supporters. All of them great guys and no bias or superiority towards miners.

I don't know why my EVE experience is so different from yours. Maybe I was just lucky to get in touch with the right folks in the right moment.

So what I can say from my experience is, that your conclusions are way too simple and that my reality is different.

Should you decide to leave EVE, well, best of luck with whatever you want to do in the future.


My apologies to Jenn aSide I didn't see your post. You were very respectful with your comments. I wish you luck. I'm glad your experience has been better over all then mine. Be Safe.

Teirnid
Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2016-10-01 21:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Railyn Quisqueya
Teirnid wrote:
Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious.Smile

Basically, human nature. I remember when I started out back in '05. The hate was all about mission runners. They were considered by gankers the very lowest form of scum in the game. Miners were actually appreciated and held in very high regards because at the time, it was widely accepted that they brought value to the game in the form of minerals and building materials. Mission runners brought 'nothing but inflation'.

The forums were filled with vile and hateful threads, as they are today, but instead directed at mission runners. Gankers need a reason to justify the need of wanting tears. They need to demonize their target to make their play not just acceptable, but righteous and a civil duty.

Dravclad said it best a few posts back. You have to realize these player types are here to ruin your game and make you mad. And they get home court advantage and VIP-like treatment from CCP. Find a way to keep yourself out of their radar, like not flying commonly targeted ships or doing activities they prey on.

If you can't find enjoyment in your game and what you do, take a little break and wait it out a bit. I've been through this myself. So I really do feel you. In any case, I wish you success in whatever you decide to do o7.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#51 - 2016-10-01 22:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Teirnid wrote:
Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious.Smile
They're activities that are easily done afk, so people do them afk; while forgetting that Eve is as much a PvP game as any multiplayer FPS.

This is widely regarded as a bad idea.

TL;DR People make themselves easy targets, and other people take advantage of that.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Mikkhi Kisht
Vanity Thy Name Is
#52 - 2016-10-02 01:16:43 UTC
To OP;

Eve Online. It's many things to many people. For me, I came into the game with a bit of a headsup. Before I fired up the first trial account I did some research, as to how the niche sandbox that is Eve tended to behave. So it was a swamp of articles ranging from 'toxic carebear avoidance' and 'Grr these specific toons/corps/alliances' to 'how not to look like an idiot by asking where the Auction House is.' So I had a vague idea on house rules. If it didn't bust the ToS, EULA, or exploit game mechanic glitches, just about anything goes.

I still hang out here, because of the same reasons I logged in the first time. Challenge. Effort. risk vs. loss odds. Some of the people I've flown with, been in corps with, or just chat with while we meander in different regions. Others stay for giant battles in null, being scrappy with a WH life for them, or roam in lowsec with fittings that would bust my wallet after too many losses but gives them the grins they're after. And yes, for some, eating highsec space rocks by the Procurer load is their idea of a nice evening playing a game. Big smile We're all jumbled in here together, kind of like roomates that didn't get a vote on who moved into the side bedroom. Solving those complaints involves guns, drones, missiles, scouts, situational awareness, and the willingness to fight or flight out of that confrontation.

Just like there are different reasons people come to Eve and stay, there are different reasons to finally dock up, log out, and not come back. To each their own.

Eve is, has been, and even with upcoming Alpha Clone options, will remain a niche game with a different type of regular gamer. That's not good, bad, or indifferent. However... to expect a game company and/or the majority in a game to play a 'wun twue way' decided by someone else is rather like herding various breeds of felines. It won't happen, it won't end well, and odds are high someone might get mauled by a jaguar having a really bad day. I've lived in all four types of space. I'm content for now to hang out as a Highsec 85%er with the occasional WH dive. Will it remain so? Meh, I dunno yet. Is my style of Eve the wun twue way?

Nope. None of us use that play-style. Once that lesson sinks in, goals and expectations can develop. If Eve isn't for you, then it isn't for you at this time. To each their own. If you are heading to other MMO pastures, hope you find a game that fits the niche you prefer. Me? I'll keep haunting Eve for now. It's working out alright as my MMO of choice.

>Mikk
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2016-10-03 01:25:43 UTC
I'm making that sound that's like riffling a pack of cards at the bottom of my nasal canal, just above the palate.

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!

Sasha Nemtsov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2016-10-03 06:54:55 UTC
Ila Dace wrote:
I'm making that sound that's like riffling a pack of cards at the bottom of my nasal canal, just above the palate.


My dear, that will be nothing to the sounds emitted by the musculature and vertebrae of your overworked spine as they struggle to compensate for the enormous weight of that (undoubtedly admirable) bosom of yours.
Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
#55 - 2016-10-03 13:46:10 UTC
It's those damned rainbows, they crawl up your leg and bite you in the ass.

Share your experience

Write for the EVE Tribune

www.eve-tribune.com

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#56 - 2016-10-03 15:32:27 UTC
I find it very strange you talk about lack of social aspect because of pvp, because from my experience the most engaging social aspects have had roots in pvp in one form or other. It's usually the people who pve but neglect the social aspects that get ganked and chased out easily. It's the lack of willingness to enage with others and orientate themselves with their surrounding environment and people it it that makes high sec pve groups 'weak' vs groups that are motivated and organised with pvp goals. You don't have to enjoy pvp yourself, but broadening your social scope to include those who do, or at least those who know about pvp mechanics and know how to avoid them, will make your eve experience much better, and that's when people get hooked to the game and sub for long time.

I know indy people who don't do pvp, but they actively communicate and group up with others and they have lots of fun and engaging experience in game.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Lasisha Mishi
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2016-10-03 16:05:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lasisha Mishi
why people leave EVE
1. they get burned out after a demanding war.
2. Enemy drives them out and make them feel like they arent havign fun.

hell just watch the mittani's video on "Art of War" by Sun Tzu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYgpNLEbpYM

Their goal in a fight is to make EVE so difficult and depressing for the enemy that they don't log on. couple this with stress and burn out. Plus a player's losses(which can build up) and a player can feel like "game over, i can't recover" or "its to much work, to little fun"

nothing wrong with this, its what EVE is and can happen in most games(but sandbox more than others)


The players who remain or return are those who don't throw in all they have into 1 bet. but keep some in reserve in case they lose, or who have a plan to recover their losses. or who are ok starting over.

for burn out, players return with time, specially if their corp "take care" of them outside of EVE by playing with them in other games so they remain attached to their corp and eventually feel like taking up the banner in EVE again.


want an example? wow i referencing goonswarm alot...but they burned out right now....and playing together in archeage. you can bet they'll have a higher number of people returning to EVE in time than other corps.
and goon used to have the policy of accepting they terrible. so if they lose, oh well. if they win, party. and they used cheap ships so losses didn't hurt much.


compare that to rooks and kings's golden fleet. with their reputation as being really good.
if they die, thats an expensive ship to replace
if they die without taking out enemies, it hurts more
if they lose, it hurts more than it would goonswarm who doesn't expect to win.
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#58 - 2016-10-03 18:35:11 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
[I wish you well in whatever you decide to do October 7th onwards!


Thanks and I wish you well, I have to say I have total respect for the organisation and dedication of CODE players.


What? All of us?

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#59 - 2016-10-05 02:20:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Opinions are like butts: Everybody's got one, and they usually smell. Here's mine (my opinion, not butt).

-This game's got a huge initial excitement factor. If you've spent any time in the new player corp channels, you can see that. People talk about whether to spend their first isk on a Rifter, Incursus. They worked hard to get the isk for it, they're into the EVE world, and they damn well want to make the right planning decision about how to go forward. Might seem cute/naïve to some little more experienced players, but-- try to remember when you were noob, bro. Rule of life on Earth-- There is about 0 way not to be new at any thing you might try for the first time, no?

-If the new players in high sec should have known and prepared for high sec gankers, then logically that experience should be in the tutorials. Otherwise, how is a new guy checking out the game supposed to know? Outside of game Google searching? What search terms?

-It pretty unfeasible to play this game solo/casual/limited time-attention. That is, if your plan is to undock and fly spaceships around. Why not? Because so many people have dual/alt accounts. One mind vs. one mind is great, but one ship vs. two ships is a lose. Pretty much always.

-There are some guys who will be ready to play intensely, from the get-go. With the gank and wardec environment in high sec, they'd best pretty quickly join up with coaching vets, not other new guys exploring Eve together. Boy, that sure is some fun, being diaper/nose-wipe/suck up trainee boy. How's that for inviting good people into the community?

-Organized group with a focus and experience (gankers, wardeccers, anybody else with a plan). Hazy cloud of incoming strangers who know nobody, don't know each other, have no special reason to want to know each other and form up. Don't know the game mechanics. Which side vs. which "side" is going to get kills in this situation?

People ought to be given time and a chance to explore and test out the game, IMO. They're new, but not all of them are stupid or carebear mentality. If they are, so what? What does that hurt? You want your game to survive, give people a chance to test their IQs and their risk-taking mettle as they go. No need to stuff HTFU down their throats. Smart or busy people really don't need that in an MMO.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#60 - 2016-10-05 08:16:16 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
-If the new players in high sec should have known and prepared for high sec gankers, then logically that experience should be in the tutorials. Otherwise, how is a new guy checking out the game supposed to know? Outside of game Google searching? What search terms?
It's been a bit, but I am pretty sure the tutorials try to hammer home the point that nowhere is safe, you shouldn't get too attached to your ship, and that you shouldn't fly what you cannot afford to lose. Certainly, the New Pilot FAQ produced by CCP does (start in section 7), and makes clear what type of game this is.

Perhaps this could be done better, but I don't think you can fault CCP for not trying. Maybe the new NPE in November will do a better job.

Khergit Deserters wrote:
-It pretty unfeasible to play this game solo/casual/limited time-attention. That is, if your plan is to undock and fly spaceships around. Why not? Because so many people have dual/alt accounts. One mind vs. one mind is great, but one ship vs. two ships is a lose. Pretty much always.
This is true, but intentional. I would also agree it is a problem but it isn't trivial to solve. The game is designed to encourage forming social/larger groups, which is good probably even for new players as numbers are useful so they are often welcomed, but when implemented badly, like say mining, just encourages single players to multibox multiple accounts. This is terrible for new/casual/solo players who have no hope of competing with them without doing the same.

I agree that a casual player interested in mining must be disappointed when they realize they can never compete with the multibox fleets Hoovering up the belts and probably many of them leave Eve at this point.

Khergit Deserters wrote:
-There are some guys who will be ready to play intensely, from the get-go. With the gank and wardec environment in high sec, they'd best pretty quickly join up with coaching vets, not other new guys exploring Eve together. Boy, that sure is some fun, being diaper/nose-wipe/suck up trainee boy. How's that for inviting good people into the community?

-Organized group with a focus and experience (gankers, wardeccers, anybody else with a plan). Hazy cloud of incoming strangers who know nobody, don't know each other, have no special reason to want to know each other and form up. Don't know the game mechanics. Which side vs. which "side" is going to get kills in this situation?
Eve is a competitive PvP sandbox. It is specifically designed so that the largest, and most well-organized groups have the most success. It would be foolish to expect new players to enter such an environment and be competitive with no experience, assets, or allies.

That said, there is nothing preventing new players from joining up with some of the existing 'big boys' and immediately be part of a competitive organization. Maybe some of their egos are too fragile to enter as a 'newbie', but there are all sorts of training options available in all sectors of space. Even the most green Eve player is an asset in the open-world type of game Eve is as he is better than nothing, so unless they are completely unreliable or unpleasant, they should find a home easily.

This integration of new players could all be done better I suppose, and the game could actively discourage/warn/coerce players away from trying to play the game solo. Again, let's see what happens in November.

Khergit Deserters wrote:
People ought to be given time and a chance to explore and test out the game, IMO. They're new, but not all of them are stupid or carebear mentality. If they are, so what? What does that hurt? You want your game to survive, give people a chance to test their IQs and their risk-taking mettle as they go. No need to stuff HTFU down their throats. Smart or busy people really don't need that in an MMO.
The problem with this 'idea' to give a safe space to new players is that is almost always offered by veteran players who are just looking for a way to keep themselves safe. It is extremely difficult to give safety to genuine new players without it just being exploited by veteran players who will move in and out-compete the new players for resources, forcing them to either move out to the more dangerous space, or suffer with the low value or scare resources.

So yes, a safe space does hurt the game. Such a place can only exist in a sandbox game if it isn't economically valuable. It seems we might get that in the form of a new instanced NPE, which could give a safe space for players to learn the interface and the basic ideas of the game and that would be great, but the fundamental problem is that much of Eve you can only really learn by playing, and by playing you have to be vulnerable to the other players or they game doesn't work given we are all each other's content. You can't have invulnerable rookie ships flying around, or some mechanic where new traders can't lose ISK on the market. We are all in this universe together.

Some players, even smart players, won't make it over this learning curve before they are discouraged by losses and/or boredom. Others just aren't looking to play a competitive PvP sandbox where they can actually lose to other players with their spare time. There is nothing wrong with this as Eve is definitely not for everyone, nor has it been designed for everyone despite what some of the more flamboyant carebears will claim. Eve aspires to be more than a missioning game, mining simulator or even fleet combat game. It is trying to be a whole virtual world where everyone is vs. everyone all the time and everywhere. That idea comes with some constraints on what type of game play is allowed in this universe, and for some players, that means Eve will never be the game for them.