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Out of Pod Experience

 
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Why people leave EVE

First post
Author
Gwenaelle de Ardevon
Bluenose Corporation
#21 - 2016-10-01 11:11:17 UTC
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Teirnid wrote:

EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.

I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.


But EVE does cater to more than the "Killers and Gankers". It's just that my Hauler alt has to be looking very carefully when traveling certain routes (carrying a scouting ship seems a good idea) and that makes a boring task more enjoyable.
And I have to be observant when doing exploration.
What would EVE be like without the threat?




just Boring...

I like that game between Cat and Mouse....

Do you know Tom & Jerry...
I'm like Jerry ... i can run, and run.......

«An hour sitting with a pretty girl on a park bench passes like a minute, but a minute sitting on a hot stove seems like an hour». Albert Einstein - [11, S. 154]

More Quotes, Poetry & Prose on: https://gwenaelledeardevon.wordpress.com/

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#22 - 2016-10-01 11:15:18 UTC
Teirnid wrote:
I feel that this is largely in part to the focus being on PvP and not on the Social aspect. And it's difficult to focus on Social when the minute you undock you are fearing for your ship and your life.

Shocked

This is just nonsense.

What you are basically telling us is, that you are ok with risk, as long as you can opt out of it at your leisure.

EVE is just not that kind of game. And it is a good thing.



Remove standings and insurance.

Black Pedro
Mine.
#23 - 2016-10-01 11:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Teirnid wrote:
EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.

I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.
Because you have decided that Eve is not for you, you've decided to lecture CCP on how to develop their 13-year old MMO? A game that has outlasted almost all its contemporaries and has tens, or maybe hundreds of thousand customers who are happy to pay for its near-unique game play? Talk about self-important.

Eve Online isn't for you. Fine. Whether you just never got what the game is about, or maybe you did and it isn't what you want to spend your leisure time on doesn't matter as the world doesn't revolve around you. Many of us like playing in a competitive sandbox and accept that for us to be able to affect the game play of others, we have to be vulnerable to everyone else.

What you are asking for is impossible. Removing the possibility of loss and maintaining a functioning player-driven economy is not workable. Eve is not a space combat simulator or FarmVille in space clone. It is an attempt to create a living work of science-fiction where we all compete with each other for power and riches in a virtual universe.

You seem more than happy to benefit from living in that universe by building and selling stuff in Jita which only have value because of the demand destruction creates, yet when that universe came for you and claimed your freighter you had a hissy fit and rage quit like a child losing at a game of checkers. Sorry friend, if you want to compete economically with all of us you have to be vulnerable to all of us as we are all to each other. You don't get to isolate yourself behind the wall and only accumulate resources at no risk to the other players. If everyone could do that, Eve would be a boring, non-functional game.

So go away. If you don't want to play there are plenty of other games out there but don't tell CCP to turn the game I want to be playing into something else entirely because that is what you want to play. So selfish.
Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
#24 - 2016-10-01 12:26:16 UTC
...and complaining about the core aspect of EVE in the forums is always productive; usually in flames,however.

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#25 - 2016-10-01 12:41:16 UTC
The first thing I would ask you (the OP) is whether you count yourself as casual, and what level of intelligence gathering do you do, when I started this game in 2009 I was told that it was a harsh game full of people who liked to gather tears and were good at the game, so for me that was a challenge to go into this game and test myself. I went into the forums, read up what they did, people like to brag you know and I got a good idea of how they operated. So from day one I was difficult to kill in that I had a good idea of what I was playing against.

My sub runs out 6th October, I have tested myself, I am worth about 70bn in ISK and assets, I have a very green killboard and was never ganked, well a thrasher once but that was because I was shooting them Big smile

From my perspective I ended up testing myself against a game which was balanced in favour of the gankers in terms of a number of mechanics, what I eventually found was that the people I was testing myself against were not worthy of my test, because they were so successful in terms of the mechanics being biased in their favour. I will give you some examples.

CCP decided to buff the DPS of destroyers, this resulted in a single catalyst being able to gank the best tanked mining ship and pod the pilot in a 0.7 and below system. Playing as I did to be hard to kill I made the decision that mining was no longer possible and stopped mining completely. I only mined again after CCP balanced the mining ships so that a top tanked Skiff is about 17 Catalysts, this means that you have a choice to be difficult to kill with the cost of yield and efficiency, at which point I started mining again. That balance issue if you know what I mean.

Next up is freighters, after analysing the freighters and what you can do to protect them and what they can do to gank them I decided as a player with two accounts that I was not able to counter the gankers with anything and therefore sold my freighters, I only use DST's in hisec. The freighter class is no longer worth using, just stop doing it.

I used to go belt ratting in NPC 0.0, but with the change to the drake and heavy missiles (sometime ago) the reduction in reprocessing, differing warp speeds, the addition of D-scan immune combat recons, the fact that everyone and their dog was now able to fly BLOP's, the removal of the watchlist to keep an eye on hot droppers, the use of skill injectors to create perfect clean cyno alts that it was not really worthwhile, so I stopped doing it apart from a quick blast every so often for laughs.

And these examples are how you play Eve, do not do the things that make you easy game, gather intel and understand your risk and if that risk is crazy stupid due to game mechanics don't do it.

I will end with the fact that hunting in this game is being dumbed down so even complete losers can get kills, AFK Cloaky camping is a lazy dumb losers way of getting kills, most of the players doing this are playing other games, and these players want local removed so it becomes even easier and this is the issue, one of my great friends stopped playing Eve 4 years ago, his judgement was that it was no longer the hard game to hunt in, at this point I agree with him, its been dumbed down too much and its full of lazy people who are now whining because there is nothing left to kill, hence the alpha clones in November, which now gets to the final nail in the coffin for me, what the hell is the value of a kill on a alpha clone, it is like taking candy from a baby.

Sadly this game is no longer worth it for me.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Smendrik Von'Smendle
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-10-01 12:50:50 UTC
very sorry you are leaving the game....

I am posting to this thread because the exact opposite just happened to alliance mate of mine a couple of nights ago.....and that is also EvE.... He needed help saving 10bil worth of stuff and we heard the call scrambled what we could, jumped 20 systems went through Thera to get there in time and we did it....we lost ships....we had fun and we met our objective.....my guess is even if we did not accomplish our goal that night we still would have had fun and reminisced about like I can hear in alliance chat as I write this....

Its a well learned saying "The best ship in EvE is Friendship" this is very true but it must be learned....
You must put yourself out there for a group of people who you may never see their faces...

Take Goons....for all their faults/asshatery/skullduggery they were a group of people with similar goals and had fun together (I mean I assume they had fun otherwise why be complete asshats to the outerworld at large?) Even now they have lost most of their space but they are, for the most part still an alliance, maybe with a lot fewer peeps than before but I am sure that weeded out the corps they needed to weed. They continue....they move on....they survive and again I am sure they are having fun...
How many billions do think they lost?

I have played EvE off and on since '09 and I can say without a doubt playing this game with friends is 10x more fun that playing solo...

Mining....10x more fun when 15 people are doing the same thing as you even as boring as watching rocks disappear from your screen.

missioning, exploring, and yes PvP all fun by a factor of 10 (or more) when you are with others....

"Death" in EvE is harsher than any other game I have ever played sans early UO. I loved UO when it was harsh and I love EvE for its harshness......why? you may ask....because its how I deal with the consequences that make me a better (or worse) person. (real life lessons can be learned here)

Ask yourself are you better or worse for quitting for the reason you have previously stated?

If better than move on already...

If worse than reevaluate why and work it out and come on back with a different mindset.

If you do come back may I suggest the first thing to enjoy EvE more.......don't worry what your ISK wallet looks like every 10 mins...set goals and achieve them...if you have setbacks don't be afraid to start over and try to achieve again......(again REAL LIFE lessons can be learned doing this)

In any case Im sure I didn't convince you to stay/comeback and play EvE so I will end this for now.....whatever you decide


FLY SAFE o7
Minabunny
Bogus Brothers Corporation
#27 - 2016-10-01 13:17:31 UTC
I find it safer to mine in wormhole space than it is hi-sec. You don't have to deal with idiots in local either.
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#28 - 2016-10-01 14:00:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
Quote:
But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds. I happen to be in Jita during the second burning in my freighter. A death of a hulk or Mackinaw you can recover from. It sucks but that's life. But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.


The problem is that you convert the imaginary price of a scifi vectorized spacecraft in real money term, not the Eve fault in this case.
And flying what you can afford to lose?

Death and been trapped (and how to avoid it) is part of the main fun in Eve for bears like us Bear

Anyway fly safe with the ton of other space games around Smile
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2016-10-01 14:12:01 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

My sub runs out 6th October,
Sadly this game is no longer worth it for me.

Can I have your stuff and SP?

I'm my own NPC alt.

ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#30 - 2016-10-01 14:17:37 UTC
Moved to Out of Pod.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.

Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-10-01 14:18:08 UTC
To Smendrik Von'Smendle and Dracvlad,

Thank you for being mature players when replying to this thread. And yes, I get the idea that if something isn't working in the game due to risk try something else. I also understand Corps or more fun but the risk to being wardec'ed is there as well which is counter productive when you just want to mine in peace.

To all the Trolls I just feed. Enjoy the tears. LOL. And in all fairness I did write this post at 4 in the morning my time so screw you if I miss spelled or typo'd a bit. Most of them are CODE anyone and Enjoy being successful in making players quit the game.

To the gentlemen with the peanut butter comment. I'm not saying make the product into peanut butter. I'm saying produce both the orginal product and the peanut butter that way you can offer your customer more.

Now to what I really wanted to reply with. CCP is a company. They are in the business of making money. They don't give a damn about the player other then not loosing the players they have and getting more players to play their game and spend money on their game. This is why people who have multiple accounts will always out way those with one. This is also why they have added F2P. They want to expand their player base. Get more people playing their game and spending money on it. The whole how do we get people to spend more money to increase our profits.

That's why Ganking is a non issue for them. Most of them have two accounts which they are paying for. Also when a miner gets ganked he goes out and drops a plex to replace his losses and CCP get richer in real life. I'm not saying its a bad business model. I'm saying this is why soon the only players who will be left are those who enjoy PvP.

There are 4 types of players in games:
(obviously these can be broke down further among each grouping)

The Killers: It's all about scoring the kill. Doesn't matter how you get the kill long as they got the person. Even if they lose something in the process. For this to work you need prey. A weaker target.

The Explorer: Seeing things and getting to area's that are hard to find. Sometimes even breaking game mechanics to see area's still under development

The Achievement players: They are all about the Goals and doing things just for the sake of having done them. Someone who would want to finish the Tutorial just to say they have done it for example

The Socialist: Someone who plays the game just to talk to team mates. Doesn't matter if they die, Big whoop. You can still chat with your friends when your dead.

Generally the Killers and Socialist and opposites as are the Explorers and Achievements.

And lets be honest for a moment, Anyone who actually wanted to fight other players wouldn't be in high sec in a miner. They be in low sec in a Battlecrusier and then they are no longer prey for the Killers.

Again, not saying they their current business model is wrong. Just that if they ever want to pull in more of the other types of players then they will need to find a way to support their way of play without destroying the ones they currently have.
Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-10-01 14:31:55 UTC
Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious.Smile
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#33 - 2016-10-01 14:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teirnid wrote:
Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious.Smile


I will answer that for you, a lot of Eve players are min/max players, one being the self aggrandising troll Jenn a'Side who happens to be a very good PvE player and will tell you that ad nauseum. A lot of players look at anyone doing lower level return stuff such as mining and hauling as being stupid or sub human, not accepting that people are doing it because they find it fun. So the hatred for them is that you are stupid and dumb for doing something which is so poor in terms of reward.

Then you have the people who define the sandbox as being purely a PvP game and they define it as you are not playing the game the right way, so you are scum, so they define people as carebears and bot aspirants who are beyond the pale and that they don't get Eve. So you are playing the game wrong.

CODE, you can write a lot about CODE, but at one point there was a game mechanic called can flipping, where you would flip the can which a miner had dropped his ore into, and they would go suspect to the miner, the miner getting annoyed would flip it back going suspect to the can flipper at which point they just blew them up. It caught a lot of new players and a lot of people who did not understand the mechanics, then they would have fun killing that person in front of their corp mates and taunting them. CCP changed this mechanic, so they went suspect to all. There was a group of old players who hated the loss of this fun mechanic so they decided to attack CCP by directly attacking new players to punish them and that is CODE. Many of its supporters and its founder were directly upset with the change to this mechanic.

There is also a point of view that anyone in hisec is not playing the game right, CCP along with 0.0 alliance leaders want people in 0.0 because that is more fun, well they say it is, but do you want to be a drone hitting F1 in a large fleet at some ungodly time in the morning, do you want to be at the beck and call of raging ego driven alliance leaders, of course you don't but you are not playing Eve right if you do not.

Risk and reward, they bang on about hisec having no risk so should have no reward, many 0.0 alliance leaders push this as they want fresh meat for the grinder so they call you names for not going to 0.0.

Then you have low sec players who think you are cowards and playing it wrong because you are too scared to go where real men operate.

Does that help?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Keebler Wizard
Skew The Suits
#34 - 2016-10-01 15:07:49 UTC
Im so tired of this "hours and hours of hard work". I guess if you're sucking veldspar, the lowest common denominator (no offense chribba) then yea its gonna take hours and hours to make anything. I play maybe 20-30 minutes a day and make billions. So no excuse for you.

Also flying a freighter in burn jita, like wtf do you expect.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#35 - 2016-10-01 15:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Teirnid wrote:
So I'm going to prefix this with statement that the following is going to spark controversy and not everyone is going to agree.

EVE online has been built to cater to those who enjoy PvP. I get that this is EVE and the learning curve is very high. Maybe that's the problem. The learning Curve is high. I know many players don't make it that far as newbs because of the curve. The tutorial has helped with that alot. Chalk one up for CCP.

That being said, I left EVE after getting past the starting stuff. Why did I leave? I was ganked. Yeah, I know. It's part of the game. Put your big boy pants on and deal. And I did...... when it happened the first time. But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds. I happen to be in Jita during the second burning in my freighter. A death of a hulk or Mackinaw you can recover from. It sucks but that's life. But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.


This is simply evidence that you were never cut out for this game. That is the core problem. There are many like you, blaming the game for what is in fact an internal issue.

We can't post killmails in here as far as I know even though it's been moved. But I can point you to one. My Character Starroad Trucker on 2012-08-25 at 20:21 EVE time. That's a jump freighter that I autopiloted to Jita while drunk one night, while my alliance was war decced. I was mad...at myself. But the loss only stung for 10 minutes, because this is a video game.

Yet here I still am 4 years later. If ANY loss can cripple you in a video game, you should not be playing video games.

Seriously, is this what our society is producing now, people who can't even deal with the minor adversity of a video game?

Quote:

I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.


You will not be missed.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-10-01 15:44:07 UTC
No offense OP, but you have no clue how this game works and how you can survive. One reason, you (and others complaining in this thread) obviously never bothered learning the PvP mechanics*, which is crucial even for a "carebear" who never wants to engage in a fight. It's trivial to stay reasonable safe, and avoid being ganked/killed if you know the mechanics and make use of it. Yes, it means situational awareness and watching the news, and sometimes choosing the 90% but much safer solution (e.g. Skiff over Mack). You won't be able to eliminate risk completely, but it should be a calculated risk. Eve is all about economic decisions an calculated risks.

*Your example with the battlecruiser in lowsec could not be wrong more, a lonely BC is prey in lowsec and will not make it far. You know bigger is not always better?

I'm my own NPC alt.

Revis Owen
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#37 - 2016-10-01 16:01:00 UTC
Teirnid wrote:
But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.


OP goes ahead and rolls the dice on the well-known #1 rule in Eve, and comes up snake-eyes.

All I can do is laugh. Thanks, OP.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.

Sasha Nemtsov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2016-10-01 17:10:02 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

CODE, you can write a lot about CODE, but at one point there was a game mechanic called can flipping, where you would flip the can which a miner had dropped his ore into, and they would go suspect to the miner, the miner getting annoyed would flip it back going suspect to the can flipper at which point they just blew them up. It caught a lot of new players and a lot of people who did not understand the mechanics, then they would have fun killing that person in front of their corp mates and taunting them. CCP changed this mechanic, so they went suspect to all. There was a group of old players who hated the loss of this fun mechanic so they decided to attack CCP by directly attacking new players to punish them and that is CODE. Many of its supporters and its founder were directly upset with the change to this mechanic.


Does that help?


I doubt whether it helps much, if at all, since you're using the OP's genuine concerns to trot out once again your somewhat bigoted take on the New Order of Highsec (via the CODE. Alliance, which is part of the Order).

You're leaving, so I'll keep this short.

It is true that some veteran players were disappointed by the removal of can-flipping as a viable activity; among them James 315. He's said it himself, so that's not in question.

However, you're wrong to imply that my comrades and I specifically target new players; we do not. If they're in our sights, they'll get popped, but so will anyone else.

It was following the demise of can-flipping that James began to bump miners out of mining range in order to persuade them to give him money. This activity was later attached to the purchase of Mining Permits.

Those are the facts Dracvlad. I wish you well in whatever you decide to do October 7th onwards!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#39 - 2016-10-01 17:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Tipa Riot wrote:
No offense OP, but you have no clue how this game works and how you can survive. One reason, you (and others complaining in this thread) obviously never bothered learning the PvP mechanics*, which is crucial even for a "carebear" who never wants to engage in a fight. It's trivial to stay reasonable safe, and avoid being ganked/killed if you know the mechanics and make use of it. Yes, it means situational awareness and watching the news, and sometimes choosing the 90% but much safer solution (e.g. Skiff over Mack). You won't be able to eliminate risk completely, but it should be a calculated risk. Eve is all about economic decisions an calculated risks.
Indeed, remaining relatively safe is simply a matter of knowing the risks and planning for them; even if you're prey you don't need to outrun the predators, playing smarter than the other prey is enough to make you a less appetising meal.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2016-10-01 18:53:59 UTC
A lot of players signed up to play this game because it was a dangerous universe where stuff could go terribly wrong.

They know what happens when the "We just want to do our own thing" masses start asking the game developers for stuff: the devs listen and the universe gets made safer and more boring.

The "Get out of this game, you're going to ruin it" has its element of truth to it.

A signature :o