These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Missile Guidance Enhancers - Why does hardly anyone fit those?

Author
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#1 - 2016-09-28 12:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
I have a question about Missile Guidance Enhancers (MGE):
Why do most missle boat fits I see prefer a third or even fourths ballistic controll system (BCS) over one of those modules? The MGE II has 25 ft less computer usage compared to a BCS what made me fit one because I was tight on CPU. But I hardly see them used in fits postet here.

If I understood stacking penalties right the fourth BCS only adds 2.83% more damage but one MGE adds 6% bonus to Missile Velocity, Missile Flight Time and Explosion Velocity together with a -6 % to the Explosion Radius. Is this because the raw damage is still better than all those bonuses together? Or is it because the Guidance Enhancer doesn't add to the DPS shown on the fitting tools?
Galinius Valgani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-09-28 13:59:24 UTC
Missile Velocity, Missile Flight Time are not that important most of the time and simply add a tiny bit range.


Explosion Velocity, the Explosion Radius give better application against small and/or very fast enemies.
For PVE this is not that important and for PVP you may simply fit Rapid Launchers if you want to fight smaller targets.
( Just use a Target Painter for better application )

It is not bad but not great either.
And it is available for approx. a Year so older fits cannot use it :D
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#3 - 2016-09-28 14:10:25 UTC
The relative bonuses do show, at least on the fitting tools I use.

Some cautions.
I only fly missile ships in PvE activities like missions so all of my comments are based on that experience.
These are my thoughts and they are based on real in game usage not on numbers from a fit tool.
I fly all cruise missile fits and use the T2 ammo types exclusively.
And the usual your mileage may vary warning as well.

The range added by the velocity bonus is useless.
The flight time change at average engagement ranges amounts to less than 1 second, essentially making that part useless as well.

The reduction in explosion radius and increase in explosion velocity holds some advantage in some situations but over all even they are not worth it. Against the larger targets (BC and up) application is not an issue and teh additional damage from the BCS actually works better. Against the smaller and faster targets (frigs and desi) it seems to be a toss up, maybe there is a slight advantage to the MGE. But then you have to look at the overall picture and the small advantages of the MGE against the frigs / desi simply do not out weight the advantages for the 4th BCS on the bigger stuff.

Last comment. One of the people I fly missions with a lot loves his torps and they are more effective against the bigger stuff than my cruise. So when we run I replace two of the BCS for a pair of MGE simply because I am only shooting the smaller stuff so the advantages are worth it.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#4 - 2016-09-28 14:58:12 UTC
On my Golem, I don't use a MGE, and I use 4 Caldari BCUs.

I also use a MGC, a Grappler, and 2 TPs.

With the 4 BCUs I get 1005dps. (with Fury). With 3 BCUs I get 942dps.

That 4th BCU adds 6.6%, that's more than an implant.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#5 - 2016-09-28 15:25:34 UTC
from what i see MGE find a lot of use with rapid launchers and on bombers.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#6 - 2016-09-29 01:41:59 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
If I understood stacking penalties right the fourth BCS only adds 2.83% more damage but one MGE adds 6% bonus to Missile Velocity, Missile Flight Time and Explosion Velocity together with a -6 % to the Explosion Radius. Is this because the raw damage is still better than all those bonuses together? Or is it because the Guidance Enhancer doesn't add to the DPS shown on the fitting tools?



velocity matters with missiles generally not as important by and large. Missiles already have their range (lr options). Or for the SR/MR options these don't add killer range. Think ccp was going for TE effect here. Thing is with guns a 1km or 2 here and there can matter. Missiles less so imo. Example would be the TE nerf a few years back. It took some km's away and it did hurt minmatar abit. And it wasn't a massive bone crushing nerf either being objective about it. still stung for a few setups.

Damage application and velocity this relates to ye old rigor>flare. Velocity an iffy effect on damage. Radius gives more consistent help by and large. Hence rigor>flare for max value.

Radius matters usually covered by rigor and/or paint. Like my case, with a rigor II and I combo (or even 2 t1's), max paint skills (38% t2, 41% RF), max missiles skills and the radius 5% implant....this is about as good as its gonna get. Other better low slot options exist basically.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#7 - 2016-09-29 03:40:26 UTC
Uriam Khanid wrote:
from what i see MGE find a lot of use with rapid launchers and on bombers.


I think that's because of cpu issues but they aren't really that much more helpful for light missiles.


What I would like is that medium missiles would get fixed so we can use them for pvp again. Then we don't only see Caracals with light missile launchers.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#8 - 2016-09-29 04:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
They're just not worth it (and likely never will be), especially when compaired to a vast number of alternative module options. MGC's are somewhat more useful in the sense that you can at least pick and choose the focus of that module's benefits, and thereby trading an unwanted or unneeded buff for a stronger version of the one you do need or care for more. The MGE's provide far weaker stats yet without such flexibility to make up for it.

When you look at TE's, they would be in the same boat. In some ways, they are. Missile boats, for one, don't tend to have as many low slots. When compared, armor gunboats don't tend to use TE's in a similar fashion, but often because they are using the lows they do have for tank and raw firepower. Shield tanked missile boats only generally care for raw damage for their low slots, but often have too few to split the difference anyways. Where I do tend to see them get used is because there's simply enough lows to go around for some ships without compromising their tanks or firepower in the process.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#9 - 2016-09-29 08:24:54 UTC
Thanks you all for the very informative replies. What I get is that even a 4th Ballistic Control System can be more than a 6% bonus to DPS what makes it better than a Missile Guidance Enhancer even IF the 6% bonuses to Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity would translate into 6% more DPS. The small bonus to Missile Flight Time and Missile Flight Velocity don’t do much at all.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#10 - 2016-09-29 12:14:03 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Thanks you all for the very informative replies. What I get is that even a 4th Ballistic Control System can be more than a 6% bonus to DPS what makes it better than a Missile Guidance Enhancer even IF the 6% bonuses to Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity would translate into 6% more DPS. The small bonus to Missile Flight Time and Missile Flight Velocity don’t do much at all.



basically.

My usual advice is

A. EFT/pyfa this. See the numbers. Play with graphs as well.

B. If bored or just to say you tried it, try it. Would recommend in PVE to start where you experimenting is less do or die in consequence. Generally if something is not thrilling you shooting a stupid rat, its not going to get any better in PVP lol.

NIce thing about this is you can pull the MGE and resell if so desired if not making you happy.

now 4th bcu...never partial to that. I am more into support. Me...I like sig amps. Came back after a year break, kind of like how they put what used to be signal boost amplifier sig strength boost into sig amp. But...I mission in caldari space so I see gurista a lot. Great dps does nothing if jammed alot lol. Just other angles to consider maybe.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#11 - 2016-09-29 16:46:23 UTC
I made a mistake with the numbers for my Golem.

With 4 Cal. BCUs, I get 1025dps, 8284 volley
With 3 Cal. BCUs, I get 960dps, 8012 volley.

That 4th BCU gives me 6.7% increase in dps, and 272 more volley, with is substantial.

If I get jammed, I just wait it out and deal with it, NP otherwise.

I one volley just about everything except for BS (2-3) and sometimes some elite stuff (2-3) I rarely use my drones, it's just too much of a hassle to pop them out, baby sit them, and bring them back in.

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#12 - 2016-09-29 20:51:06 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Uriam Khanid wrote:
from what i see MGE find a lot of use with rapid launchers and on bombers.


I think that's because of cpu issues but they aren't really that much more helpful for light missiles.


What I would like is that medium missiles would get fixed so we can use them for pvp again. Then we don't only see Caracals with light missile launchers.


MGE increase all missiles important parametres. In one module you get all.
I also saw a lot of bombers with 2 MGE and DC. also TFI can use them with great sucsess in role of anti-tackle.
and for light missiles - it depends on ship's fitting and player believes.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2016-09-30 17:21:47 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
I have a question about Missile Guidance Enhancers (MGE):
Why do most missle boat fits I see prefer a third or even fourths ballistic controll system (BCS) over one of those modules? The MGE II has 25 ft less computer usage compared to a BCS what made me fit one because I was tight on CPU. But I hardly see them used in fits postet here.

If I understood stacking penalties right the fourth BCS only adds 2.83% more damage but one MGE adds 6% bonus to Missile Velocity, Missile Flight Time and Explosion Velocity together with a -6 % to the Explosion Radius. Is this because the raw damage is still better than all those bonuses together? Or is it because the Guidance Enhancer doesn't add to the DPS shown on the fitting tools?


Most missile ships don't have a lot of spare lowslots. Generally speaking, adding a 3rd BCU adds more applied DPS than the MGE. I have one fitted on my old mission CNR.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016