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CSM Meeting Minutes on Ships
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Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-17 20:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Shaalira posted this on our corp boards. Here are my favorite parts:

EDIT: Quotes are in italics. BBC code BS.

CCP and the CSM discussed the new Tier 3 battlecruisers. CCP noted that the Talos needs adjustment upwards; the CSM noted that the Naga is too powerful compared to the Talos. CCP acknowledged this, citing the difficulty of finding a role for blasters as well as the power of passive shield tanking.

Heh.

Frigates and Cruisers:

CCP wants to boost tech one Frigates and Cruisers sothat they are viable options for new players, rather than the current system where new players are often told to skip over them towards tier two Battlecruiser or even tech twoships. CCP noted that Cruisers should generally be more mobile than a Battlecruiser, but that this is not currently always the case. Furthermore, CCP added that the higher velocity of Cruiserswas not often viewed as being worth the lossof EHP and slots. The CSM agreed and was pleased, noting that there are a large number of ships in these classes that have long needed iteration.

Battlecruisers:

CCP wants to do a balancing pass on tier one Battlecruisers, which are problem hulls. The CSM agreed that these needed examination.

...

The Drake:

The CSM and CCP both acknowledged the need to rebalance the Drake, which ‘does everything too well’. CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like a Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonusand the 5% Kinetic damage bonus and instead gain a rate of fire bonus and a missile velocity bonus. The CSM vehemently approved of this idea. CCP and the CSM also agreed that this possible change to the Drake would help add more uniqueness to the Nighthawk, which is presently overshadowed entirely by the Drake.


Yes please. Oh please oh please oh please.

There is some other stuff on Command ships v. T3s, AFs, EAFs, etc.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#2 - 2012-01-17 20:33:28 UTC
I'm onboard with everything but the Talos buffing. Talos does not need to be better.

That said, hooray for frigate and crusier buff and battlecruiser speed/agility nerf!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#3 - 2012-01-17 20:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I'm onboard with everything but the Talos buffing. Talos does not need to be better.

That said, hooray for frigate and crusier buff and battlecruiser speed/agility nerf!


Yeah, I don't get why the Talos needs buffing.

All of the stuff from CCP makes sense but as always, it's just a matter of when or if they'll get around to it. Hope to see a buff to T1 Frigs/Cruisers so the newbie pilots will PVP more. It's really a bad mindset to instill into newbies that they should wait till they can pilot a BC in order to be useful.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#4 - 2012-01-17 20:57:03 UTC
I will be upset if they nerf the Naga. It is what a Caldari rail boat should be. What's wrong? It give the Tornado a run for it's money?Roll
Hoskoal Ricks
#5 - 2012-01-17 21:14:47 UTC
I have to assume the talos/naga comments were typos or the CSM and CCP are completely unaware of what both ships are capable of at present.
Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-17 21:40:15 UTC
The CSM and CCP comments were made Dec. 7-9, not too long after Crucible's release. Since then we've had a month of real flying and combat to see how the tier 3 BCs perform on the live server. The Talos is one of those surprises where the ship's actual performance surpassed the low expectations created by stat crunching and theory crafting.

I think the metagame is still adapting to Crucible. Pilots are still heavily affected by what's already in their hangar and by their instinctive preconception of what a ship can do.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#7 - 2012-01-17 21:54:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
The CSM and CCP comments were made Dec. 7-9, not too long after Crucible's release. Since then we've had a month of real flying and combat to see how the tier 3 BCs perform on the live server. The Talos is one of those surprises where the ship's actual performance surpassed the low expectations created by stat crunching and theory crafting.

I think the metagame is still adapting to Crucible. Pilots are still heavily affected by what's already in their hangar and by their instinctive preconception of what a ship can do.

That... is an excellent point. Everyone should keep in mind that this is not current data they were working from. I still hope they don't buff the Naga Talos based on the old data, though. Edit: Dammit, there I go swapping their names. I really make myself look stupid sometimes.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#8 - 2012-01-17 21:58:07 UTC
They were talking about nerfing the Naga.
Clementina
University of Caille
#9 - 2012-01-17 23:20:00 UTC
I don't see any problem with the Naga or the Talos.

I find it somewhat strange that tiericide was not mentioned explicitly, even though it would help greatly with boosting Tech 1 frigates and cruisers.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#10 - 2012-01-17 23:22:30 UTC
They also seemed to back off from the +1 slot to AFs...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#11 - 2012-01-17 23:27:58 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
They also seemed to back off from the +1 slot to AFs...

-Liang

Remember that this is minutes of stuff that happened a month ago, before AF changes hit SiSi. Apparently they changed their mind.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#12 - 2012-01-17 23:59:50 UTC
Well I hope they back off again - not that I have any trouble making current AFs stand up and dance to my tune.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Cyzlaki
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#13 - 2012-01-18 00:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyzlaki
This just in from the CSM - a 1700 DPS ship needs buffing
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#14 - 2012-01-18 00:12:05 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Well I hope they back off again - not that I have any trouble making current AFs stand up and dance to my tune.

-Liang


Yes. The half of them that are actually useable are great. Roll
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#15 - 2012-01-18 00:20:12 UTC
Funny, almost everyone was telling me that the Harpy was one of those unusable AFs...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Goose99
#16 - 2012-01-18 00:24:07 UTC
Good god! Drake with rop and missile velocity bonus? Throw more missiles, further... The old kin bonus (lol) is crap anyway, and Drake minus 5% resist is still a lot of buffer. Besides, where does this leave Cerebrus and... Sac. Are they trying to make this BC overshadow HAC counterparts even more?Roll

It's like Hail ammo changes. Buffing the FOTM further, because that's what CSM is using.Lol
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#17 - 2012-01-18 00:27:00 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Funny, almost everyone was telling me that the Harpy was one of those unusable AFs...

-Liang


It's so unusable, what with all the shields and those hybrid bonuses and everything.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#18 - 2012-01-18 00:30:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Funny, almost everyone was telling me that the Harpy was one of those unusable AFs...

-Liang


Good:
Harpy
Wolf
Jag
Ishkur
Vengeance.

Crap:
Retribution
Enyo
Hawk

The Enyo would be okay if it were 5-3-3 with the double damage bonus. The Hawk has never impressed me. And the Retribution? Take a low for the mid and the tanking committee will become enraged. Take the utility high for the mid and you limit what the ship can do via nos and tackling. Take a turret? The ship already does below average damage compared to some of the others.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#19 - 2012-01-18 00:35:24 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Funny, almost everyone was telling me that the Harpy was one of those unusable AFs...

-Liang


Good:
Harpy
Wolf
Jag
Ishkur
Vengeance.

Crap:
Retribution
Enyo
Hawk

The Enyo would be okay if it were 5-3-3 with the double damage bonus. The Hawk has never impressed me. And the Retribution? Take a low for the mid and the tanking committee will become enraged. Take the utility high for the mid and you limit what the ship can do via nos and tackling. Take a turret? The ship already does below average damage compared to some of the others.

Retribution is great with a kiting fit as fast DPS support: 2.7 km/s with 120 DPS at 20 km range, and 6.5k EHP that is immune to Warrior II drones because of Amarr resistances. I will love flying it after the buff since I will be able to do the same thing, except solo because I will fit a point.

The Enyo is great in the same way (125mm Railguns, etc), but it can fit a point. It just has a spot of cap problems, and that can be easily solved. Enyo is also great if you get someone to tackle for it, then use blasters with Void to provide heavy, heavy DPS. After the buff, it will be even more amazing.

I haven't flown the Hawk because I don't like active tanks. No comment there.

AFs are underrated because people try to fly them like bloody tackle Rifters. They're each good at something, you just gotta figure out what it is. The buff gives them far more things they will be good at.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#20 - 2012-01-18 00:35:51 UTC
The ships can all be fixed with a 4th bonus and maybe a couple of ships with some slot moving. They don't all need a 4th bonus, a role bonus, an extra slot, extra HP, and extra fittings.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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